Need Advice on steadiness

[luke0927]

OK so im heading to SD at the end of October....i have been working my dogs on their steadiness one is 15 months the other is a little over 2....i have been holding them steady to the shot during training (they are still on the CC and i have just started shooting the blanks when the birds are flying so it still in progress)my goal for the 15 month old is to be steady to wind and shot...the 2 year old im happy with him just steady to the flush. at least for now.....I want to run run test and try and title my dogs....on the 15 month old do you think i should just let her get expeince on birds and let her break on the shot for now and then after this season come back and make her steady to wing and shot, or is coming back to it too hard because they are already used to breaking at the shot....she's just at that point where i don't know if i should be worrying about it that much or not.....

[RayGubernat]

Luke -

If you are going to hunt the dogs, one way or the other, I would say forget about it for now and come back to it next spring and summer.

My personal choice , if I wanted to comepte with the dog would be to break both dogs steady to wing and shot and keep them there...but that is not the easiest thing to do when you are in a hunting mode rather than a training mode.

If you are not will ing to do what is necessary(pass up shots, correct dogs in the field) to keep the dogs steady while hunting this fall, then don't even bother...just hunt them and have fun.

Getting them steady to wing and shot later will probably take longer, but if you want to hunt them now, that is a better option than getting it half done and letting it slip during the season.

RayG

[Ruffshooter]

I take it you are hunting wild Pheasants in October. If so young dogs may have a hard time being steady with running birds, or you will be doing a lot of trying to flush birds that have left. I too think you may be better off to wait until after hunting season. If your dog moves on a running bird that is a good thing as long as he does not crowd it and bust it out. Pheasants will teach your dog alot or confuse the heck out of him, depending how you prepare your pup. Your dog will hit a hard point then look confused, maybe strart flagging or looking to you. A good drill may be to teach your dogs to relocate. If you have launchers you could set up situations for relocations using a running pheasant and a bird in the launcher. Maybe at a local perseve. You also could just plant pheasants in succession.

Just an Idea. Good luck

[luke0927]

I take it you are hunting wild Pheasants in October. If so young dogs may have a hard time being steady with running birds, or you will be doing a lot of trying to flush birds that have left. I too think you may be better off to wait until after hunting season. If your dog moves on a running bird that is a good thing as long as he does not crowd it and bust it out. Pheasants will teach your dog alot or confuse the heck out of him, depending how you prepare your pup. Your dog will hit a hard point then look confused, maybe strart flagging or looking to you. A good drill may be to teach your dogs to relocate. If you have launchers you could set up situations for relocations using a running pheasant and a bird in the launcher. Maybe at a local perseve. You also could just plant pheasants in succession.

Just an Idea. Good luck

i do have a close by preserve i think pheasant are pretty pricey but i thought about shooting a couple just to get them used to it....so i will continue my training and with steady to wing...what do you mean by setting up relocations....say they point the bird but it runs and then they move to go find it right....

[Hotpepper]

At 15 months, it is rare for a youngster to be ready to be "broke to wing and shot" and I fear a loss of something with the dog to do it that early. As both get older, and once you have them broke, keep them broke. I had a judge in a trial give me a 2nd place ribbon when my dog relocated himself as we were riding to him, horseback. He was pointing a beautiful covey from 50 feet away and simply moved up. The 5th of 5 perfect finds. His comment was" that relocation, very dangerous" the covey was intact on the ground at 50 feet away. Tremendous negative judging, terrific nose on the dog.

Many things are acceptable to a "good hunter smart" judge in a field trial. Ridged rules in field trials are tough. The young dog needs as many birds killed over him as he can get at 15 months. Put lots of dead bird feathers in their mouth and it will ppay dividends for years. It is about 10 years with a great hunting buddy as opposed to a week's vacation in Dakota.

The wild birds will also make him behave, keep the e collar on and do not wait to use it.

Good Luck.

Pepper

[luke0927]

There's going to be lots more birds this is just my starting...i didn't get to really go out last year due to my new born son being born I didn't do much hunting last year.

[wfkgsps]

My personal choice , if I wanted to comepte with the dog would be to break both dogs steady to wing and shot and keep them there...but that is not the easiest thing to do when you are in a hunting mode rather than a training mode.
If you are not will ing to do what is necessary(pass up shots, correct dogs in the field) to keep the dogs steady while hunting this fall, then don't even bother...just hunt them and have fun.

This is where I get confused...there seems to be two schools of thought. 1. Let pup get all the bird contacts it can...chase, bump, etc. then come back to the breaking process. OR 2. If you don't want pup to chase birds, never let them get started chasing. If your goal is to test and/or trial, which one is easier?

Not questioning anyone's method...I realize there are several different ways to do it, but which is more user friendly?

[snips]

You need to use your hunting ground as your extension of training ground. By the end of Oct you should have CC's off and a little more experience. You can use the Ecollar as an extension of your CC and use it to keep them steady to wing at least. If birds are bumped, no chase. I would not go for preserve birds if you are going to hunt them.

[RayGubernat]

My personal choice , if I wanted to comepte with the dog would be to break both dogs steady to wing and shot and keep them there...but that is not the easiest thing to do when you are in a hunting mode rather than a training mode.
If you are not will ing to do what is necessary(pass up shots, correct dogs in the field) to keep the dogs steady while hunting this fall, then don't even bother...just hunt them and have fun.

This is where I get confused...there seems to be two schools of thought. 1. Let pup get all the bird contacts it can...chase, bump, etc. then come back to the breaking process. OR 2. If you don't want pup to chase birds, never let them get started chasing. If your goal is to test and/or trial, which one is easier?

Not questioning anyone's method...I realize there are several different ways to do it, but which is more user friendly?

I can't answer for anyone else, but I can tell you where my thought process goes on this.

I firmly believe that it is far better for the dog, in general, to NEVER learn that it can or will be allowed to bumnp and chase and catch birds. If the dog never learns to do any of these things it will never have to be trained NOT to do them.

If one had unlimited access to thousands of acres of open ground that was full of wild birds, a year of bumping and chasing might make a dog into a superstar. Unfortunately, there are ony a handful of folks who have that situation any more. most everyone has to depend on liberated birds and artificial setups...at least to some degree.

I believe that if you have a firm foundation in obedience in the yard and THEN take the dog out into the field, the process goes much more smoothly, with less chance of lost style and squelched desire. Once the dog is fairly well steady to wing and shot, you can trust the dog to hunt in the field and extend their knowledge and experience without undoing and unraveling their previous training.

Put another way, I like to have the brakes and the steering installed before I wheel the racecar out onto the track because there is less chance of a wreck that way.

The steadying process is not the end, for me, but rather the BEGINNING of the dog's education about birds and hunting and such. Only now, since the dog is pretty steady, under most circumstances, I can trust the dog to range out and hunt independently, figuring it out on their own. I can also have fun with the dog, hunting it and I can also feel a lot better about applying pressure when the dog makes a mistake because 1) the dog knows very well what it is supposed to do and 2) a little discipline will be taken much more in stride when the dog understands that it is my way or NO MORE BIRDS.

What I believe you should not do is confuse the dog by doing half one thing, then stopping, doing half something else and then stopping again and gong back to the second half of the first process and expect the dog to figure out that you just switched programs on him.

If you are gfoing to break the dog steady to wing and shot...DO IT until it is done....however long it takes. Don't do it part way, then quit and expect the dog to pick it up later where you left off. Ain't gonna happen. You will almost certainly screw up your dog if you do this kind of thing. I did.

If you are not going to carrythe training through to completion...don't even start.

RayG