training troubles

[bean1031]

Well cash is now 2 years 1 month and I am working with her on sight blinds. A few weeks ago cash started pulling the no-go card during training for no apperent reason (she is force fetched), so I went back to collar fetch, but when I would give her the back nick back sequence she just locked up (she is a soft dog). After 2 sessions of force to pile she was relaibly going and retrieveng from a pile. Now she has started again. This morning while running one the permant blinds after about 10 retrieves I sent her for the 11th retrieve and she didnt take her line and tried to run a near by fence to the pile. I blew my sit wistle but she kept going so I nicked her to no avail, finaly I gave her a continous for about 4 sec and she came back. I sent her again but she pulled the no go card. I used the back nick back prodceure and she went out about 10 ft and started spining around like she didnt know where the pile was. I got up close to the pile and after several ear pinch retrieves she ran it well and I did one more retrieve and ended the session. My question is why is she pulling nogos? I think its from zaping her for taking a wrong line and that she wont go because she is anticipating corection. This keeps popping up in training and is driving me insane!She know how to turn off pressure because I had a pro help me FF and Collar fetch her and I just went back to force to pile. Should I try to not work her with the e-collar for a month. When she doesnt have the collar on she blows me off out in the field and when its on she wont go. How can I fix this, should I go to a pro and have them evuate her and them tell me what to do?

[littleking]

could be that 11 retrieves got boring as heck?

is there need for 11+ continuous retrieves? why not end the session with the dog wanting more? not re-drilling the same thing OVER AND OVER AND OVER until the dog no longer wants to comply?

it sounds like she knows what to do, how to do it, and does it right, but flakes out when she gets bored.

shorten the sessions, change up the drills, do something different, see what happens.

[gonehuntin']

Well cash is now 2 years 1 month and I am working with her on sight blinds. A few weeks ago cash started pulling the no-go card during training for no apperent reason (she is force fetched), so I went back to collar fetch, but when I would give her the back nick back sequence she just locked up (she is a soft dog). After 2 sessions of force to pile she was relaibly going and retrieveng from a pile. Now she has started again. This morning while running one the permant blinds after about 10 retrieves I sent her for the 11th retrieve and she didnt take her line and tried to run a near by fence to the pile.

Wow Bean, you're getting into some problem here. First, I would never run a permanent blind 11 times, I don't know what you're trying to accomplish there. I would do that many on a double T, but not a permanent blind.

Second. She ain't that soft if she won't go when nicked. Up the intensity. Put a rope from you to a stake at the pile and back to the dog. When you nick her, pull on the rope and nick at the same time so she has to go. Don't let a "no go" get started. The other thing you can try is indirect pressure. On the way to line blow the whistle, and tap her with the heeling stick for sit. Then proceed to line and run the blind. That way the pressure is on sit, not on the blind.

Third, sounds like you've created a "hot spot", where she knows she is going to get nicked and flares the spot. Go to where she flared and send her from there. Gradually back up and send her from the original position, as long as she doesn't flare, and never nick her there again.

I blew my sit wistle but she kept going so I nicked her to no avail, finaly I gave her a continous for about 4 sec and she came back. I sent her again but she pulled the no go card. I used the back nick back prodceure and she went out about 10 ft and started spining around like she didnt know where the pile was. I got up close to the pile and after several ear pinch retrieves she ran it well and I did one more retrieve and ended the session. My question is why is she pulling nogos? I think its from zaping her for taking a wrong line and that she wont go because she is anticipating corection. This keeps popping up in training and is driving me insane!She know how to turn off pressure because I had a pro help me FF and Collar fetch her and I just went back to force to pile. Should I try to not work her with the e-collar for a month. When she doesnt have the collar on she blows me off out in the field and when its on she wont go. How can I fix this, should I go to a pro and have them evuate her and them tell me what to do?

Now you're creating a "spinner". There have been more dog's sent to the junk yard for spinning than for almost any other problem. You have to realize that these are your problems, not the dog's. You are creating them and are solely responsible for them. By blowing your whistle, getting the "no sit", then forcing her in with a four second blast, you gave her the impression that she didn't disobey the sit whistle, she disobeyed a here command. She started spinning because she had no idea what the heck you wanted. You don't correct a bad line with a burn, you correct it with attrition, repetetion of the line. I wouldn't go out there either if I were her, would you?

Now, you're making her collar wise as well. Never, ever, run that dog with the collar off. Bean, you're getting into some very, very, serious problems here, too serious to probably help you over the net. I'd go back to the pro and be honest with him. And for gosh sakes, be honest with the dog.

[bean1031]

A couple of things, I didnt run 11 blinds straight I ran a couple at a time over a 5 hour morning period. Second of all I didnt burn her for the bad line but from the missed sit wistle. And third off I did talk to a pro and she said the reason for all of the problems flaring, spinning and no-goes was from the fact that the pressure is out in front of her so to speak instaid of behind her so Im sending her into pressure. She told me to run some 15 yard or so pile work without using the ecollar and just using direct pressure IE- Ear pinch, CC, ect. and gradually build up to the pattern blind using only direct pressure and then slowly move back to a e-collar pressure. She also said to work on wistle sits a distance.

[gonehuntin']

That's not the way I'd handle it, but she's your pro and knows your dog. Do as she says would be my best advice.

[bean1031]

The trainer had me do indirect pressure like you said exept on heel not sit and it didnt really help. Ill try the stake thing and see how it goes.

[gonehuntin']

Bean, she's your trainer and I'm not. She knows the dog intimately, I don't. All I have to go by is your description. Really, I would follow her advice. If I could see the dog, it would be different.