Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

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GSPGauge

Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by GSPGauge » Mon Jul 14, 2008 8:17 am

LOL I feel like a big thread starter here.....but not sure where else to write my ?? :oops: :oops:


So my GSP puppy also has this problem with biting. When we first got him it would draw blood, and it was really hurting.
I would tell him NO, and that just didn't cut it, then I tried giving him his toys, and get away from him. Well he got much better
but this week, he is losing teeth and now starting to grab my arms and chew on them. It doesn't hurt as bad as when he did it younger, but I think he should be grown out of it by now. What should I do to stop this habit?

He also has this thing, you take him on his walk in the woods, I let him off leash and he runs everywhere having fun and he is so good with waiting for me to catch up with him, but sometimes he comes running back and jumps up and starts biting and tearing at your clothes, and I have no idea why he does it. Some say it is puppy crazy stuff, but it is hard to control him. Yesterday I threw him off and he fell and then stopped biting, but I don't know if that is the solution.....

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EastBeast
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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by EastBeast » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:58 am

He will be teething a while yet. When he comes after you say oops or no or whatever you use and give him something appropriate to chew on instead of your appendages :) Stay consistent and he'll come into it. Teething can be really uncomfortable. Most of my pups seem to like medium dense rubber with some give to it at this stage. Those rope-floss chewie thingies are pretty popular too. With the jumping i do about the same, just say aah-aah-aah and push them off me. When all 4 are on the floor I will reward them with some attention. Again the more consistent you are the quicker they will come into it. Have fun!

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by BlacknTan » Mon Jul 14, 2008 2:45 pm

He's a puppy....

He'll grow out of it. No problems I can see... All my pups were like that..

Replacve withy a chew toy. Consistency will win the day!

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by kninebirddog » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:03 pm

The biting does need to be discouraged even a mother dog will correct and obnouxious pup from this very undesired behavior http://www.gundogforum.com/index.php?page=gdfarticle19

I change the game on a biting pup as it is a behavior that can get worse as they do not grow out of behaviors they grow into them

Besure to have patience and do not give into the belly aching and only when the pup has settled do you ask fro release

and since the pup has a little bit more history expect a more on the testing of paramters
Good luck
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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by BlacknTan » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:49 pm

Just for the record, I have never had mouthing turn into a biting problem...

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by wems2371 » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:13 pm

My avatar pup was exactly like that--always nippy. We just would replace my arm (ha!) with a toy or distract her into something else. We did use the word no also. If you google this topic, you might find a suggestion of yelping loudly--like another pup would. That did work about the first 12 times, but she wasn't impressed with that method after that. So we were back to "no" and distracting her into doing something else. As she aged from 8 weeks to probably 4-6 months, the behavior lessened. At just turning a year, she's completely over it. Denise

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by Gordon Guy » Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:16 pm

Whenever he bites grab his lower jaw and do let let go until he struggles and then some more. If you have to put your finger down his throat so that it's uncomfortable do it. He'll stop biting after a few weeks if you and your whole family and visitors are consistent about it.
Tom

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by gonehuntin' » Tue Jul 15, 2008 4:52 am

Never let that pup bite you, playing or not. Slap his nose and command NO when he bites. If it continues, bite him back on his nose. Same when he comes roaring up to you and bites and jumps on you. He may be only a pup but this particular behavior can easily turn into a quest for dominance by the pup. Mother dog's don't put up with it and neither should you. Never let a dog bite the hand that feeds it.
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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by bobman » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:52 am

when he comes roaring up to you and bites and jumps on you. He may be only a pup but this particular behavior can easily turn into a quest for dominance by the pup.

I have a good bit of experince working with dominance problems and thats exactly what this is, a dominance thing, and you need to crack down hard on that now. I am not saying brutally but consistantly and tough enough he gets the message. Its a dominance thing and will develop into biting if left unchecked.

Always make this dog wait to be released before you go thru any door or flight of stairs, then you go first and release him, if he breaks and trys to run in or out before you catch him and place his butt right back where you told him to sit and make him wait. Keep him off beds and furniture. Do this drill consistantly in any situtaion where he is going into or out of house cars ect. Dominant dogs always go first, this drill will make him accept you as dominant over him in pack rank.

Don't play with this issue its really no fun expecially when it gets to the point that you are working with a 90lb DK with his hackles up, growling like a bear and teeth bared, I've recently done that and turned even him around with this little drill.

Hes now a well adjusted useful dog, hes the dog in my avatar. It took a year with him but I got him at 2 years old and his problem was really established.
currently two shorthairs, four english pointers, one Brittany, one SPRINGER a chihuahua and a min pin lol

GSPGauge

Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by GSPGauge » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:08 pm

He is pretty good with letting me out the door first.
Today I pushed him off and held him down, he was very mad growling and a bit scary, but
I didn't let him up until he was not moving and he didn't try to bite any more today.

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by bobman » Tue Jul 15, 2008 7:16 pm

drill him make him sit and stay until released everytime. the teething thing is one thing the jumping up and grabbing you is another its attemping to achieve dominance. You really need to bear down on this dog with lots of Ob drills mix them up but always enforce.

Take away all toys and do not let him on any furniture especially your beds, and I know its scary but act confident. They are very good at sensing things.
currently two shorthairs, four english pointers, one Brittany, one SPRINGER a chihuahua and a min pin lol

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by GSPGauge » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:55 am

I agree with that, because when he is teething on you it is a different way then when he is just jumping or in a "bad mood" biting you. You have said twice about not letting him on beds etc. I have been bad with that, as I let him sleep with me. :oops: Why do you say not to let him?

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by bobman » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:10 am

a dog that sleeps in a bed that has dominance problems will continue to think he is equal or above you in rank, make him sleep one the floor either in a crate or atleast on a rug or dog bed. Sounds strange but it really does matter, don't let this dog sleep with you anymore, it will graduate to where he will take possession of the bed and growl or bite you if you disturdb him in "his as hes sees it" bed. Same with furniture, right now he thinks hes the boss you need to demote him.

Its normal for a dog to strive to get to the top of their pack, in his mind you are part of that pack either you or he is going to be the leader, I would choose me.
currently two shorthairs, four english pointers, one Brittany, one SPRINGER a chihuahua and a min pin lol

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by kninebirddog » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:29 am

YEp if a dog is viaing for leadership role..it should never be allowed to think it is even an equal
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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by Nebraska » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:28 pm

Great article!!

My pup's been mouthing and jumping alot and I was really getting frustrated and starting to loose my cool with it this week and inadvetently playing into her paws :roll: (hence the search on this topic). I want to do a better job with her on this and reading these posts, articles, etc. really helps me get back on track. Very big thanks for the info here.....

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by snips » Wed Aug 20, 2008 5:25 am

Nip him back, it will stop. (thats what mom would do)>
brenda

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by Better Birddogs » Wed Aug 20, 2008 11:25 am

This seems to be a shorthair or wirehair problem mostly. Just from my observation. I'm not talking down on those breed but from my standpoint of raising pointers I maybe have had this sort of thing happen with 5 pups out of the 500 I've dealt with over the years. I'm a little old school though in how I handle it. I will take dog or pup that is exhibiting this kind of behavior and I will treat them just as another dominant dog would. I am fast and tough with them on the corrections. No toys or any no's from me. I simply take them and powerbomb them on the ground and manhandle them and make them fear for their lives for about 10 seconds or so. I just try to make them understand that I run the show and that's that. Most people don't agree with it but sometimes it has to be done. I have only had one dog that never came out of it and I killed him. That sounds harsh but if you don't get a handle on aggressive behavior quick not only are you creating a problem for yourself but for everyone else that might come into contact with that dog. I don't even let my adult dogs growl at each other or anything. If they even try it I get into their separate kennels and lay the smackdown on both of them just like a dominant dog would do to them. I have kennel full of primarily females and they are more interested in testing each other then me but I have a zero tolerance policy at the kennel and my ladies know it.

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by ezzy333 » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:11 pm

Betterbird Dogs,

I don't think that is a training method that anyone is needing to learn as there are other and better ways to handle minor problems when they start. Plus very few dogs will ever stand that kind of treatment and then go out and perform at their highest level. It probably works for you in producing well mannered robot type dogs but the dogs most want in the field are the highly motavated independent type dogs that have been trained to handle. Plus many good dogs have been completely ruined by such heavy handed handling during their training years. I am not against using some physical restraints or correction as long as it fits the problem but dogs being whipped because they growled at another dog in the kennel seems way over the top to me. Dog training is another word for teaching and we all know a dog learns from repetition and not being punished physically.

I hope everyone realizes physically beating a dog does not fit into acceptable training methods for correcting normal activities of our dogs. That sounds more like a correction that would be needed for an attack on the trainer.

Ezzy
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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by Better Birddogs » Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:46 pm

Ezzy I agree with your method and if I was like most of the owners on this forum and bought one dog and planned on keeping him no matter what for the next 10 years then I would say your method would work for me but that isn't the case with me at all. I'm into to correcting negative behavior one time and not over and over like a lot of folks do. My dogs know that when I say that's it then that's it. It's done and they know it. I also don't deal with family pet quality dogs like some on here do. I also don't deal with soft dogs like some on here do. I treat all of my dogs the same because I am looking for one type of dog. If one of my young dogs doesn't react well then I get rid of that dog and look at something else. My dogs fit what I do well and they fit my personality type. My dogs, consequently, are a lot like me. I don't condone beating animals but when I have to be physical with a dog I only want to do it once and I want the dog to know that it sucks for them and don't ever do it again. I have had dogs that don't make it here and that's ok. The dogs that do make it here will get it done anywhere anytime and that's what I'm after. It starts when they are young with me. I'm all into funnin' around don't get me wrong but when I correct a negative situation like described in this thread it is swift and severe and that's that. It has worked for me for 15 years. I don't expect it to work for everyone but it works for me and that's all that matters to me.

GSPGauge

Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by GSPGauge » Thu Aug 21, 2008 6:26 am

My pup has turned out wonderful as far as mouthing! he just suddenly stopped doing it.
It's so wonderful! I had to knock him off a few times when he jumped up on the trail
and he pretty much learned from that.
Thanks everyone here for the ideas!!

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by subatomicstang » Fri Dec 12, 2008 9:51 am

My pup was doing that alot and when i would push him away or down he would come back and me growling like we were playing! After enough torn pants i started grabbing his shnozz and reaching in and pressing his lep into his canine tooth just eough for him to know those teeth of his hurt. Its been doing pretty good he rarely jumps and nips now.
Randy B

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by BDBUzi » Fri Dec 12, 2008 10:07 am

It's good to hear that things are getting better.
While I agree that it's a normal puppy behavior, I also agree with knine et al that it needs to be nipped in the bud early.

I used most of the methods already mentioned with pretty good results on my pup. Every once in a while, he'll still test me or check for dominance, but he's quickly put back in his place (even by my 3 and 4 year old kids :D ).

One thing my wife did that I think cured his biting of her almost immediately was bite him back. When he would get mouthy on her, she'd close his mouth put his muzzle in her mouth and bite down. Not so hard to cause injury, but enough to get his attention (as a littermate or mother would do). It only took her once or twice and it was cured.
Like you, we did a ton of research and asked everyone we could about this problem.


How old was your pup when it left the litter?
I'm just curious because I have a couple theories about this...

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by Keny Glasscock » Sat Dec 13, 2008 9:59 am

I stick a gloved hand in their mouth, index finger first, thumb under the jaw and an arm around the dogs waist and hold it there until they relax. They'll pitch a fit but I just calmly hold the hand in their mouth until the body and mouth relaxes. Everytime a pup puts it's mouth on me I repeat. Soon they are no longer interested in putting thier mouth on me.

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by kninebirddog » Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:10 am

Keny Glasscock wrote:I stick a gloved hand in their mouth, index finger first, thumb under the jaw and an arm around the dogs waist and hold it there until they relax. They'll pitch a fit but I just calmly hold the hand in their mouth until the body and mouth relaxes. Everytime a pup puts it's mouth on me I repeat. Soon they are no longer interested in putting thier mouth on me.
my gloves are never handy when I do the fingers in the mouth routine till they settle

but it is amazing how they do not like it when the rules of their game gets changed

it also helps with other things down the road
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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by slistoe » Sun Dec 14, 2008 1:04 am

I have never understood the biting back thing. I don't really want to get my face that close to a dog in a potential biting contest. I can apply correction with the same effect without using my teeth. Perhaps some other people don't understand the effect that is required and can only understand/achieve it by biting?

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Re: Still Mouthing at 14 weeks

Post by BDBUzi » Sun Dec 14, 2008 10:20 am

kninebirddog wrote:
Keny Glasscock wrote:I stick a gloved hand in their mouth, index finger first, thumb under the jaw and an arm around the dogs waist and hold it there until they relax. They'll pitch a fit but I just calmly hold the hand in their mouth until the body and mouth relaxes. Everytime a pup puts it's mouth on me I repeat. Soon they are no longer interested in putting thier mouth on me.
my gloves are never handy when I do the fingers in the mouth routine till they settle

but it is amazing how they do not like it when the rules of their game gets changed

it also helps with other things down the road

This is the method I used most often (I too never had the gloves handy).
And it worked pretty well, but it seemed to take longer than the method my wife used.

It could be that he was more interested in establishing dominance with me, but I doubt it. I think the bite back sends a stronger, clearer message. As that is the way littermates would address the situation.

One thing I've noticed on a about half a dozen pups is that the younger they're taken from the litter, the more mouthy they are. Two or three of those in particular were taken at 6 weeks old (way too young IMHO) and they were the worst mouthers I've ever seen. And I've seen some taken at 3-4 months old who didn't mouth at all. But I think some prime human bonding time was sacrificed in those instances.

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