Dog trainers

Post Reply
B-townhunter

Dog trainers

Post by B-townhunter » Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:18 pm

I know I am going to rub people the wrong way, but oh well. I have notieced that gun dog trainers, atleast the "pros" or serious trainers, always seem to be quick to say that someone is wrong or that they are doing is not right. they always are the first to flame away about every little detail. this discourages alot of beginers out there. I am not saying everyone is like that, just there are alot of guys out there that believe everything they do is right, and everything else is crap. Look at versitaledogs.com for example. every small discussion turns to a flame fest. I think more people need to realize that there are more than one way to do things.

Lisalongun

Post by Lisalongun » Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:40 am

Hear hear.

There is no wrong or right way to train dogs - if it works then it is successful - doesn't mean to say that it is the right way.

All the best trainers continue to learn - if they don't - and just say 'this is the right way' - then surely they can't be much good as a trainer.

Every single dog is different , and you learn something every time you train a dog - it is lacking in skills as a trainer if you don't.

Country-Side Breeders

Post by Country-Side Breeders » Wed Apr 28, 2004 6:21 am

You're right B-town, but on forums people need to realize that you take things with a grain of salt. It is everyone's right to post their opinions (respectfully), but it's up to each individual to decide how much weight it's worth. I agree with you there are trainers, both beginning and pro trainers, that believe it's their way or it's junk. Obviously that's not the case...there wouldn't be as many training books out if there were only 1 way to train. For those that feel there is, well, that's their opinion. In my opinion, if it works for you, then you are training the correct way.

B-townhunter

Post by B-townhunter » Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:45 am

I am glad you didn't see this thread as attacking every trainer, I just have found it very hard to ask questions to trainers or "know it alls" and get an answer, usually I get someone saying that I am a moron or that I don't know what I am doing, well if I knew it I wouldn't be asking now would I? I am a beginner and enjoy the time with my dog, and believe that I am doing a decent job, but I also know that there is alot of stuff that I don't know. The reason I brough this up is because I would hate to see this forum become this way.

Featherman

Post by Featherman » Wed Apr 28, 2004 3:39 pm

Worse than the trainers are the people who truely don't know anything: spewing advise to others like they are pro's. Many of the things that people are told are wrong, harmful and could really set back a training program... all because some person who thinks he read something like this on another board starts making something up and ... well you get the idea.

I'd rather try to glean the tid-bits of good information out of someone who is pig-headed than to try to help fix the problem someone who doesn't know anything begins.

But, as the sign says "Welcome to the Internet where the advise is free AND you get what you pay for..."

Jon

User avatar
snips
GDF Junkie
Posts: 5542
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:26 am
Location: n.ga.

Post by snips » Wed Apr 28, 2004 7:18 pm

I have found it to be the "trainer wantabes" that seem to be the most critical on telling people how to do things. The respected trainers i know are the most helpful. JMO
brenda

Setter Man

Post by Setter Man » Wed Apr 28, 2004 8:54 pm

DIDO Featherman,

Hey snips, you don't by chance run NSTRA and a dog named snips ticked off (gsp) from the Georgia region do ya?? Just curious............

raven

Post by raven » Thu Apr 29, 2004 9:55 am

I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT A TRAINER I WAS WORKING WITH ACTED LIKE EVERY THING I WAS DOING WAS WRONG BECAUSE WHEN I WENT UP TO WORK WITH HIM MY DOG ACTED DIFFERENTLY THAN AT HOME. HE MADE ME FEEL LIKE I WAS RUINING MY DOG . THEN I TOOK HE TO A MEMBERS DAY FOR MY DOG CLUB AND GUESS WHO WON THE PUPPY STAKE. ALSO HE DID BETTER THAN MOST OF THE ADULT DOGS. AT 7 MON. OLD HE FOUND AND POINTED 2 QUAIL. SO MUCH FOR ME GETTING HIM OFF TO A BAD START.

terryg

Post by terryg » Thu Apr 29, 2004 11:40 am

this is not aimed at anyone in particular but just in general.

you do not have to take anyone's advice. you are a grown person. you should just be aware that when you ask for an opinion on a public forum you are going to get many. some you will like and some you won't but this is not a case of "who is the nicest, friendliest, or tells you what you want to hear". also because someone doesn't agree with you it is not personal.

you should also realize that there are people on here that have done this for many years and to a very high level. they pass their info on for the love of dog training and dogs . not because they want you to be their friend.

if there is something you are not sure about be careful what you post. you had better believe someone that knows better will call you on it.


you also have to undersatnd that there are those of us that have done this successfully , getting paid good money for what we know, and are really not concerned with what a person that has only had one dog for a year or 2 thinks about a particular situation, when they would have no way to know anything about it anyway.

just because someone knows more about you concerning dog training does not mean you are a "moron or stupid" . it just means you are uneducated in this particualr area. you may be a nasa scientist but that dosen't give you any insight to training a dog.

the problem with most folks is they had someone teach them to read, write, walk, talk, eat, drive, dance, shoot, and a million other things but they are sure they were born knowing how to train a dog.

the average person owns a total of 7 dogs from the time he is born until the day he dies. it may vary a lillte but that is pretty accurate.

why in the world would this average person believe they know as much on the subject as someone that has trained 400 or 4,000 dogs? why would they argue with them?

working dog people are very serious about what they do and what they know. if you want to be pamapered try the puppy class at petsmart but don't expect a trained dog.

i know a lot of folks are gonna be upset with what i say and i'm sorry if your feelings get hurt as that is not my intention but sometimes the truth hurts. if that is the case you might want to reconsider going to public forums or getting into working dogs.

there are plenty of "pet" forums that cater to that type of stuff.


you also should remember that the person trying to help you doesn't have to and that he is not the one with the dog problem, you are.

User avatar
grant
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2098
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 4:06 pm
Location: Rome, Georgia

Post by grant » Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:06 pm

I just wanted to let everyone know that I am the best dog trainer. In fact, I am the best pro dog trainer on this forum. =)

Only kidding, I am a programmer and I have only been training dogs for 5 months or so. Who cares? This site was started because of my love for a liver and white GSP, named Bell. She is the BEST gun dog that ever pointed! At least in my eyes!

So, if you are a pro or beginner like me, we all have one thing in common, and that is we enjoy our dogs! I've had lots of questions already answered by knowledgeable gun dog members on this site, and hopefully many more will have the same.

So everyone, if you have questions, ask away! There is no such thing as a stupid question. And you are the pro, thanks for hanging around to answer questions!

As for this beginner "me" I'll keep asking questions and continue to learn. Thats what this place is all about! We ALL were beginners at some point in time.

Lisalongun

Post by Lisalongun » Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:21 pm

Sorry if this sounds a little sexist, but I do find that men are worse at respecting my advice as a trainer.

I have taught dog training for 6 years now, 2 years prior to training dogs professionally at Hearing Dogs, and four years after. In all that time, with very few exceptions, I have probably only been questioned in my advice by about 3 women.

This is not the case with men. I have advised them to do something and they have not followed my advice, yet when they have spoken to other 'male' trainers, who have advised the same techniques, then it is as though it were a sudden brainwave!

My father is exactly the same - as I was growing up he has only owned and trained 3 Labradors. But he thinks he is the better trainer :roll: and will still tell me what I 'should' be doing.

The problem is I suppose that unless I am training the dog myself, then I can only advise people how to do things. I cannot force them. And if they do not wish to heed my advise then it is up to them.

Sometimes it is a real shame tho as you see dogs that have real potential, and could be really good, wasted.

Lisa

terryg

Post by terryg » Thu Apr 29, 2004 1:35 pm

lisa i agree with you wholeheartedly.

unfortunately, sexism is alive and well.

i have been fortunate to have competed with many women in the dog sports that have not only whipped me soundly on the field but then turned around and were gracious enough to help me with the problems i was having at the time.

good dog training advice comes in all kinds of shapes and forms from everywhere. if it is something that works use it. if it isn't , blow it off and move on.

i have always told my students,if you see someone that is doing something with his dog that you want to do with yours, even he is a nine year old kid, go ask him how he did it!

Featherman

Post by Featherman » Thu Apr 29, 2004 2:22 pm

And Lisa, here I thought it was because you are from the UK! :lol:

Jon

User avatar
snips
GDF Junkie
Posts: 5542
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2004 7:26 am
Location: n.ga.

Post by snips » Fri Apr 30, 2004 9:37 am

Yep, I`m Rip`s (snips tcked off) Mom.
brenda

Country-Side Breeders

Post by Country-Side Breeders » Sat May 01, 2004 6:16 am

Lisa, I'm with you! SO many times I have people here training/talking dogs and will turn to my husband to carry on the conversation. He constantly needs to remind them that I'm the one doing this and have the insight and that he's here for the ride...then he needs to walk away. For whatever reason, we're just not seen as superior as the men...and when you get female that has a bit of hair on her teeth because she's strong in expressing her thoughts/experience etc., well then she's classified as a b$#%#. You just can't win, but you gotta hang in there and go with the flow.

MarkTrsst
Rank: Just A Pup
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2022 11:03 am

Re:

Post by MarkTrsst » Sun Sep 11, 2022 12:55 pm

Lisalongun wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2004 1:40 am
Hear hear.

There is no wrong or right way to train dogs - if it works then it is successful - doesn't mean to say that it is the right way.

All the best trainers continue to learn - if they don't - and just say 'this is the right way' - then surely they can't be much good as a trainer.

Every single dog is different , and you learn something every time you train a dog - it is lacking in skills as a trainer if you don't.
I agree with you, as long as the doesn't create problems and listens, i would say that the training was a success

User avatar
gonehuntin'
GDF Junkie
Posts: 4867
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm
Location: NE WI.

Re: Dog trainers

Post by gonehuntin' » Sun Sep 11, 2022 5:36 pm

Pro trainers work on a different philosophy than amateur trainers, at least the good ones do. You can have a trained dog you successfull"y hunt over that is full of holes and the longer the dog goes, the more the holes become caverns. So, I totally disagree that there are no wrong ways to train a dog. When you circumvent a problem and that problem still exists, that is wrong. Solve it and it won't haunt you later.

You have stated what you don't like about internet experts and some pros. Know what the Pro's hate? An amateur that asks them a training question immediately followed by, "Here's how I do it". I always answered "Yup. That's how I do it to."

Most of the time I may get into a discussion about training problems or procedures, which I love doing, but usually I state my view, may clarify it, and don't say much else. Everyone has an opinion and they are certainly entitled to it.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

User avatar
gonehuntin'
GDF Junkie
Posts: 4867
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm
Location: NE WI.

Re: Dog trainers

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:45 am

B-townhunter wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2004 10:18 pm
Look at versitaledogs.com for example. every small discussion turns to a flame fest.
Really, there are only two people there that cause a problem. Many of the discussions on there are quite good. There is, however, one person that does believe his dogs are the greatest, he is the greatest, and his way is the only way. He will never quit posting until he has the final word. You kind of have to filter through these posts and realize that many of these "experts" are maybe one or two dog "experts". You have to take the good with the bad.

You should also realize that sometimes when there is an answer to a post it is because an administrator has asked in private for a response to a question. Sorry you're having some problems on the boards; they are tremendous sources of information.

This is about the best.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

slistoe
GDF Junkie
Posts: 3843
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:23 pm

Re: Dog trainers

Post by slistoe » Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:55 am

You realize the thread is 18 years old


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

User avatar
gonehuntin'
GDF Junkie
Posts: 4867
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm
Location: NE WI.

Re: Dog trainers

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:06 am

slistoe wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:55 am
You realize the thread is 18 years old


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
NO,I didn't. Why would anyone post an old thread? Sheesh.
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

cjhills
GDF Junkie
Posts: 2529
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:37 am
Location: aitkin,mn

Re: Dog trainers

Post by cjhills » Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:31 am

Maybe bored with the new threads.........Cj

User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
Posts: 9113
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: Dog trainers

Post by Sharon » Mon Sep 12, 2022 9:26 am

gonehuntin' wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 6:06 am
slistoe wrote:
Mon Sep 12, 2022 4:55 am
You realize the thread is 18 years old


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
NO,I didn't. Why would anyone post an old thread? Sheesh.
Good heads up/reminder for us all. We are suppose to be responding to the original post/question given. Always a good idea for all members to check the dates on those original posts/questions.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

User avatar
gonehuntin'
GDF Junkie
Posts: 4867
Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:38 pm
Location: NE WI.

Re: Dog trainers

Post by gonehuntin' » Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:18 am

GRRRRRRRRR...........
LIFE WITHOUT BIRD DOGS AND FLY RODS REALLY ISN'T LIFE AT ALL.

User avatar
Sharon
GDF Junkie
Posts: 9113
Joined: Fri May 09, 2008 4:46 pm
Location: Ontario,Canada

Re: Dog trainers

Post by Sharon » Mon Sep 12, 2022 10:41 am

Is that for me, or are you responding to my dog? LOL :lol:
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett

Post Reply