Johnny House Options

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:04 pm

Besides the Johnny House, is there an effective way to recover quail for re-use. I use homing pigeons mostly but would like to use quail to prepare for the upcoming Hunt Tests. I don't have a place to put a Johnny House and I understand this time of the year the Johnny House doesn't work very well. I thought about carding or hobbles but thought I would check the forums for advice.

Thanks

Coveyrise64

Gregory · Post by **Gregory** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:32 pm

Sure....
Carded quail have been used for a long time now. Just make the card about 2.5"x2.5'" and launche them out of the launcher. Tie a stringer on one leg about 4-5 ' long out of some orange,red or yellow yarn..

Some time back I didn't have any homing pigeons and with a young pup that needed to be trained I went and bought couple of dozen good flying quail... Rather than use the carded method I used the yarn on one leg. Surprisingly I lost more to hawks than I did by not being able to find them.. Just pay attention where they land and you will be fine....

have fun..
G.

Post by **Ayres** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:38 pm

I don't quite get the yarn without the cards... you mean you just tied a long string of yarn around a leg and then reeled them back in after they flew?

Gregory · Post by **Gregory** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:11 pm

No. generally speaking a pen raised quail will only fly a short distance before they run out of flight... And even if they could fly long ways,they genenarlly are not spooked enough to do so. So if you pay attention where they land the yarn will help you locate them and scoop them up with a small fish landing net. Also most times the yarn get tangled in the brush to further enable them for making tracks... Just make sure the dog being worked is on the check cord and you on the other end of it:>) or you will have a bigger set back than what you can imagine....

Here's another little tip for those that are planning to run unbroke dogs in field trials that use quail as the bird of choice .

Make yourself 3 or 4 little cages 3x3" square out of 1x1" hardware cloth with a hindged door on one side that you can secure with a wire latch similar to what is found on a pigeon trap cage. Load your quail in the cage in a bird bag and as you walk through your training field toss them about 20' from you in a likely looking place. Once you have all of them planted load four pigeons in your bird bag and when your dog locates and points the quail in the cage ,and while you are going through your flushing motions toss a pigeon from your bird bag on the ground and let it fly away, your dog gives chaise and you pick the quail up and place it in your bird bag. Collect your dog and work the next quail,etc, etc.. The nice thing about that system is that you can save lots of time plus by tossing the quail 20' or so feet from where you are walking you will not be leaving a foot trail to the bird. You can do the same with pigeons,by having one in the cage and one more to toss for the dog to chaise.. I use that system alot once I have the dog steady to the flush..
I hope that helps you....
G...

Coveyrise64 · Post by **Coveyrise64** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:41 pm

Greg,

I have used that method a lot. I normally use the small mesh bird bags, walk along and toss one in the cover. When the dog comes in and points toss one from my carry bag. Works pretty good. A lot less foot scent left for the dog to pickup on. If I don't come in from upwind side to plant birds my GSP will try to back trail to the birds.

Coveyrise64

Small Munsterlander · Post by **Small Munsterlander** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:45 pm

I'm a bit confused.

while you are going through your flushing motions toss a pigeon from your bird bag on the ground and let it fly away, your dog gives chaise and you pick the quail up and place it in your bird bag.

I use that system alot once I have the dog steady to the flush..

If your dog is steady to the flush why would it chase the released pigeon?

I also thought you were against letting a dog chase so that you wouldn't have to teach the dog not to?

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:16 pm

I too use this a lot I use the yarn with out a card. I use it to catch the bird after. I don't use a cage either. I will work young dogs and then after I will take out an older dog point the bird and find the string. I for one think it is great training! Re-use them birds! I am also check-cording the younger dogs.....

Gregory · Post by **Gregory** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:34 am

Small Munsterlander wrote:I'm a bit confused.

while you are going through your flushing motions toss a pigeon from your bird bag on the ground and let it fly away, your dog gives chaise and you pick the quail up and place it in your bird bag.

I use that system alot once I have the dog steady to the flush..
If your dog is steady to the flush why would it chase the released pigeon?

I also thought you were against letting a dog chase so that you wouldn't have to teach the dog not to?

Bill...

Typo error on the first one. It should read steady through the flush.

That's why I said to only use this technique on unbroke dogs. Another word dogs that are allowed to chaise, for obvious reasons.....

And to the second question.
Yes it is true I do preffer not to let dogs chaise from the get go with the right dog. That way I don't have to break him of it later. But that is another training technique I plan to run by the board down the road a bit later... I have been using a lot of a quail in a cage techinque as of late with my boy Pete, up to the time I decided to start the breaking to steady to wing, shot and fall. If you been following my writtings to know I'm not a believer on the chaise , you also must know the reasons why he was allowed to chaise from the get go... So, yes you can use the quail in the cage technique up to the time you decide to steady to wing and shot the dog or just to flush..

G.

Gregory · Post by **Gregory** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:39 am

Coveyrise64 wrote:Greg,

I have used that method a lot. I normally use the small mesh bird bags, walk along and toss one in the cover. When the dog comes in and points toss one from my carry bag. Works pretty good. A lot less foot scent left for the dog to pickup on. If I don't come in from upwind side to plant birds my GSP will try to back trail to the birds.

Coveyrise64

Yes I am sure you have, covey.
I don't believe there is much new to dog training that has not been tryed before..

having said that, I do believe the little cages might have originated with me,then again i would not be surprised if I am wrong on that.. The reason why I came up with the cages is because we are humans and humans make mistakes, and before you know it a valuable bird is killed. The little cages protect the bird from an unintended event. Like having a brain hickup and allowing the dog to get too close. Also by making the cages out of 1x1" metal hardware cloth the cage protects the bird like a roll cage protects the driver in a race car, when you toss it 20 or more feet. Very simple to make up.I'd post some pictures of mine if i wasn't so challanged...

I gave Janet one to take home with her, so maybe she might post a picture of it, if she reads this post ...

G.

Small Munsterlander · Post by **Small Munsterlander** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 8:57 am

I must have learned about this from you on the internet about 20 years ago.

Small Munsterlander · Post by **Small Munsterlander** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 9:07 am

Covey: Have you given much thought to a portable wire callback pen? I haven't used one because I have used a large (but movable) version with pretty good success for many years. I have use it with quail and chukar. By simply changing the doors holding the return cones it is made appropriate for different species.

Gregory · Post by **Gregory** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 10:09 am

Small Munsterlander wrote:I must have learned about this from you on the internet about 20 years ago.

Bill.
Like I said , I could be wrong for thinking they originated with me..

. Although mine are much smaller that those in your pictures. none the less the concept in their use could be one and the same....

G

doublea · Post by **doublea** » Thu Apr 14, 2005 11:10 am

Coveyrise64,

Curious to know how old your dog is and what stage of training you're at?

I ask this because if your dog is staunch enough to enter either a Senior or Master level test you won't need to work lots of birds---especially not carded or caged birds. Out of the two--the cage idea is probably the better of the two. In which case I would through a frozen dead bird of what ever kind for a retrieve after firing a blank over the find. (the frozen bird keeps the dog from chewing it up) The carded idea would get you buy--but DON"T over do it or you risk teaching the dog to follow up and re-hunt the same bird over and over again. Most of your judges won't like that too much.

I notice you live in Oklahoma---don't you hunt Quail? If you do your dog should know what they smell like, right? If so---why do you want to work Quial right before your test? I always say if the dog is right and ready don't go out and shoot or work a bunch of planted birds till you screw 'em up. Look at it like this---something goes wrong the night before a trial or a test and your stuck with it for the weekend! My best advice is to road your dog and work obedience to keep his mind sharp---once they are right on their birds quit working planted birds unless you have a specific problem you need to fix.