SH Test Question

[gonehunting4days]

Tonight I was training and my dog established point, was steady to flush , but when the bird flushed it flew out at the dogs 9 o'clock. When this happened the dog to a step to relocate so he clould see the bird. Does this affect his score for the steadiness??? Or I have also seen a bird get up and walk halfway around a dog before it flushed. Is the dog allowed to relocate if this happens , how would this be judged at a test??

[Brushbustin Sporting Dogs]

Happened to me saturday and I'll tell you what my judge told me. Its the rear leg rule. Its not a rule but they don't mind a dog stifting to see the bird but when it takes a step or moves both front and back legs they wre calling it excessive forward movement. This will vary from test to test but if he just moves front legs to shift you should be good just no forward movement. Hope this helps

[phermes1]

Marking is perfectly OK, but some judges will indeed penalize it anyway. Not saying it's right, but it does happen. I personally wouldn't knock a dog for a mark.

The rules for both SH and MH also allow for a dog to take a few steps to mark the fall 'out of enthusiasm'.

Either way, your score might be affected, but if a judge outright fails your dog for marking, don't run under that judge again.

[dan v]

Here's snip from the AKC HT Guidelines:

Normally, a dog can move
or turn in place to mark the fall of the bird, provided no
significant forward motion is made. This allows movement
if the bird should happen to fly behind the dog
but, again, there should be no significant forward
motion. A question, “How much forward motion is
allowed?” — a few steps to mark the fall or out of
enthusiasm, if the dog stops without command, would
be permissible.
Blocking a dog to keep it from breaking calls for a
lowered score because it prevents a demonstration of
steadiness. If there is some question as to whether a
handler is deliberately blocking a dog, the Judges
might want to caution the handler.

Here's my advice. Should this happen, and the gunners are aware. Let the dog stop and then shoot the bird.

Asking alot at a test for the gunners to be aware, most are focused on the task at hand...killing.

But in your training, make sure the dog comes to a stop before shooting.

BTW...your're from MN...where you training now?

Dan

[original mngsp]

BTW...your're from MN...where you training now?

What are you implying Dan, that maybe somewhere in this frozen tundra, you are shocked there might be an area that is free of snow and ice? I dont believe it either. We better get some serious melting going pretty soon.

[tenbearsviz]

I want to add something to Wyndancer's reply.

Remember, the gunner is an extension of you. I know, easier said then done. After screwing up by listening to a gunner last weekend, I re-learned this lesson the hard way.

I agree with phermes1. There are judges that will fail you because any movement is considered "significant". Positive judging will look at the movement and decide if it was happy feet to get a look or breaking.

[CherrystoneWeims]

Movement to mark is not something that should fail a dog. Regardless as to whether or not the back legs moved. It depends upon the flightpath of the bird and also the cover. We have areas where we test and train where the broomstraw is 4' tall. Many times the dog will jump up to mark.

If a dog self-corrects I wouldn't fail it.

I have also seen a bird get up and walk halfway around a dog before it flushed. Is the dog allowed to relocate if this happens

Are you talking about self-relocating before or after the flush? If it is before the flush then the dog would fail.

For Pearl's last leg of MH the bird flew completely back over her head when it flushed. She turned a complete 180 in the air to mark. She passed.

[Ruffshooter]

If a dogs front legs move probally the back did too. Either way the dog is intellegent and watched the bird down. There are some judges in HT and FT that want perfectly still. I had one in NH HT and in ME FT. Those judges will never learn or care. I don't know if either of them ever hunted or passed a dog in a MH level.

My dog was behind a bush the bird went out the other side then back over his head. He turned around to the side and watched it down, the bird was shot he made a retrieve perfectly and failed the day on that bird after they discussed it all. HuH?

Wydnacer and the others got it right. Dog can turn around if the bird went there. Just not moving forward to folllow or attempt to follow.

[dan v]

There are judges that have the, "Ain't no MH dog ever been good enough to pass when I'm judging. I ain't about to start now."

Look, it's learning opportunity for the handler as well. You learn how to bite your lip and walk away. You talk with your training buds and never, ever, enter under that judge again. You also, in a polite way, let the clubs know that too.

We have people around here that fill that bill pretty well, we know who they are, and when calling for judges....let's just say, they ain't on the "A" Team.

Handlers just bring what the judges are willing to pass. If they pass robots, then that what people bring.

Me? I like some fire. So a dog that turns to mark, out of enthusiasm, without making significant forward progress, is a dog I like.

[Buckeye_V]

The marking issue is an interpretation. I have seen dogs "mark" over 20 feet. I have seen dogs mark as subtly as a head turn. I as a trainer handler and judge want that dog (in best conditions) to take no more than a turn in the direction of the bird. The distance of one normal stride. Forwadrd movement towards the downed bird is not necessarily a good thing and will be scored accordingly.

However, if there is an obstruction like a handler, gunner, judges horse, bush, log - that will be taken into consideration. Does the dog stop itself, or does the handler with an ear-shattering WHOAAAA!!!!!!!! ???

It is definitely not cut and dry. Definitely not.

Justin

[gonehunting4days]

Thanks everybody for all the advise. It only make sence that they be allowed to mark. If the dog didn't move to mark it would not be a dog I would want to take hunting.

For all those wondering where I have been training in this tundra, I live in Windom and a couple freinds of mine have some CRP that still is providing some decent cover. We did not really have alot of snow this winter either and after today their is alot less.