Dog not happy during obedience training.

stinkbelly · Post by **stinkbelly** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:29 am

I have a Deutsch Drahthaar that is 10 months old. She has been to puppy obedience and has had tons of field work, hunting experience, and a lot of home obedience training. I enrolled her in an intermediate obedience class to polish her obedience and we started last night. The class is about 45 minutes long and there are only 3 other dogs there. I know this is a strange environment for her, we usually train alone at the house. At home we also do obedience about 10 minutes at a time. She started the class off excellent and was the best dog there, but about 20 minutes into it she started to worry (it seemed). She didn't sit right, then she didn't always go down. The worst part was at the end when we were heeling and she decided she would just drag behind. I actually felt like I was dragging her. She seemed whipped and didn't want to play anymore. She is wearing a german spike collar during the training. The trainier was having us do thing different then we have previously learned which was confusing both me and the dog. This was the first time in her training that I could tell she wasn't having a good time. What should I do to pep her up. I don't want training to be a bad thing for her.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:56 am

45 minutes. That's a long time to work any breed of dog in boring obedience work. I don't blame her for getting bored and dragging along. I would never work mine on obedience for more than 15 minutes at a time. I do have a DD.

There's a few other possibilities as well. Is she coming in to heat?

She's a female and they can be very vexing to work if they're upset about something. Why are you using a German Spike collar on a dog that's all ready obedience trained?

With a DD when they go sour you sometimes have to back up and make them think it's their idea and not yours.

I still really think it's the length of the session with apparently no play allowed? When I'm obedience training mine, I'll break it up with a little play. Or I would if I were doing it for 45 minutes. Remember that these DD'S are extremely intelligent dog's and must be challenged continually to stay upbeat.

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:16 am

I'd find a different class, to be honest. Using heavy handed training tactics (spike collars fit into this category) can take the independence right out of a dog. They may work for tougher dogs like dobies and rots, but I would never use one on a hunting dog that you expect some amount of independence from (and I speak from experience here). You could wind up with a boot licker who is looking over her shoulder constantly for your approval, instead of out there looking for birds.

stinkbelly · Post by **stinkbelly** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:28 am

She could be coming into heat. She has torn up three things lately and she has never done that before. She is also licking herself a lot. I have never had an intact female before, so I am not sure. It is about that time.

The 45 minutes is the class lenght. I was also thinking it was long. At home it is never more that 15 minutes of boring training. The spike collar is required for this class. My wife keeps asking me why I am going to it. I just want to have the best possible dog I can have.

About the spike collar. Karen, you say not to use it, but she will heel perfectly when it is on and just pull me around when it isn't on. I was hoping she would learn her place and then I could stop using it. Is that not the case?

snips · Post by **snips** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:47 am

You are wearing this dog out on obedience. Many Sporting breeds will get very bored with too much obed esp too young. My best obed competition dogs I started at around a yr old. Obed can be a drudgery and a young dog cannot take it. I have put 2 UD's on GSPs and an OTCH on a Springer and I know it takes alot to keep a sporting dog happy thru it...My first dog I learned the same lesson, she was a chore to get thru it all, next dog I let grow up before starting. Much better. I would pull herv out of that class and go have some field FUN.

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:48 am

I'm just saying that with some dogs it's a trade-off and you should tread lightly.

If you're going to use the prong collar for obedience training, you absolutely should get your girl out and let her stretch her legs in the field while you're attending the class, and if you get the slightest inkling that her range or independence are being negatively effected in any way, drop out of the class and find a kinder, gentler obedience class.

I absolutely understand wanting the best trained dog you can possibly have, but if you want an bold, independent thinker in the field, you may want to tolerate a little less perfection at home.

JMHO

Maverick · Post by **Maverick** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:52 am

You have been given some good advice, 45 minutes is a long time for an obediance class. Take Snips advice and pull her and go have some fun with her.

Mav.....

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:42 am

well on the long class.
Most classes for a dog under a year around here are half hour classes. Sometimes 45 min if the class is very big. SO that said the size of the class is what makes a longer class needed. I am just started a conformation class that is an hour. All ages, but we have about 12 in the class. We all take turns. While I do need to watch the other dogs to learn as much as possible I also take off time to play with a toy or get the dog riled up then work on settle or just cuddle in my lap for a few minutes.
Your class is very small and 45 minutes is a long time for so few. The class is FOR you, you are paying and you can just go sit down and take a break periodically. This may be school for the dog - but it's optional and fun and you can say no.

Second, do be wary of rough handling instructors. I have had one in a class and I eventually dropped out. My dog was nervous and so was I and the instructor made it much worse. He was a "just jerk harder and the dog will buck up" kind of guy. My dog can be stubborn, but he learns very easily and is fun to work when he enjoys it.

Thirdly - intermediate class at 10 months? I would wait. This is a wierd age in a dogs life, like pre teen or something. I would just work on stuff at home and go to another class in a few months. But if you need structure to get you going go for another puppy class or a "manners" or CGC type of class. Most are more laid back and keep it fun.

stinkbelly · Post by **stinkbelly** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:29 pm

I wish I would have asked you all this before I started the class.

Is it worth it to go to the class and explain to the instructor that I will follow the class, but I will do it my way and won't be harsh and only attend for 15 minutes or so?

Karen · Post by **Karen** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 1:33 pm

I would go to the class and explain to the instructor that his training style and your pup's temperament and age don't mix and ask for a refund or credit toward another class.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 4:49 pm

snips is right on

take her out go have fun then when you want to work obedience

You may want to go to a new spot and just back up to doing one thing have fun make the sessions short sweet and simple end on upbeat notes if you do one thing and get the desired results then stop put the dog up for a while on a stake out or crate. Let the dog have a beginning and an end to a session

A dog is going to bore much quicker then you will so if you start off with keeping things fun and simple then build up from there you will have a dog that is going to be more willing to do things

Training goes much quicker if you Keep It Simple and sessions short and fun.

Lab Man · Post by **Lab Man** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:15 pm

I would quit the training class. Its very important to mix in bird work and obedience to keep a good attitude. If you want the class for socialization then great, but I feel you can obedience train your dog on your own and bring it to an advanced level. The key to good obedience is being consistant with your commands and corrections. If you are consistant and you work on obedience 15 minutes per session and if you can fit it in twice a day you will have a very obedient dog. I use a pinch collar to work on the heal command, but I first teach it with a flat collar. Good luck

Don · Post by **Don** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 7:29 pm

Snips,

Two UD's! That is something. The lady that taught me obedience brought a UDT Doberman to class to get everyones attention. Magnificent dogs! Congrats.

Anyone who has never seen one of those dogs work, you get a chance, don't pass it up.

snips · Post by **snips** » Wed Jan 23, 2008 10:56 pm

Thanks Don. Not too many people know what is involved in achieving this. The OTCH was the toughest, but I had a remarkable dog. It takes pretty obsessive people to get these titles. They did me in, I had serious burn-out after that, decided training field dogs was alot more fun

stinkbelly · Post by **stinkbelly** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 8:27 am

Well I took her out and used her dummy launcher to give her a fun evening last night. This made her like me again. A couple hours after that I did 10 minutes of obedience with lots of praise and treats. She couldn't get enough. I made it short, sweet, and ended on a good note.

I have some thinking to do. I don't want to put her through that again.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:13 am

Sounds like a step in the right direction

In essence

it is not the quantity of time spent in a session it is the quality of time

if you leave her wanting more this is good that is what she will reflect on

I rather have a few short sessions a day then one long one where the ending notes are good one.

adogslife · Post by **adogslife** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:44 am

After you are done with an obedience task immediately have a play session with your dog for a few minutes.Bring a favorite toy.If the dog knows she will have play time with her best friend immediately after a task she will be looking foward to it and may perform more alert and interested.

CherrystoneWeims · Post by **CherrystoneWeims** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:47 am

It takes pretty obsessive people to get these titles.

Yep. I just can't get obsessed like the obedience people do. Heck I can be anal retentive bit they are over the top!

Snips is right. A pup at that age should be out having fun. LOL I don't do any obedience with my pups until they are about a year old. I just do enough with them to make them livable in the house.

Who cares about "perfect sits" and "perfect heeling"?? A bird dog doesn't need any of these things! Just the basic heeling is fine. And bird dogs don't sit

adogslife · Post by **adogslife** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:33 pm

A DD owner who plans on passing breeding tests needs to be concerned with obedience.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Thu Jan 24, 2008 12:48 pm

thing is there is guiding a dog to the desired behaviors making it fun successful session

then there is the drill it regiments which will burn out a young dog and fast

you can get further by setting small sessions up guiding the dog into the desired behaviors and then once you ahve what you want asking for more and more in small steps then trying to ask for perfection from a young dog to start