11 month old gsp dropping tail on point

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cheetome
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11 month old gsp dropping tail on point

Post by cheetome » Wed May 10, 2023 9:01 pm

My 11 month old gsp pup has started dropping his tail on point. Last fall he hunted great and had a very nice tail set on point. He has a nice big range and tons of desire but this tail thing is driving me crazy. He hadn't been out because of the early and long winter. When we took him out he started off with the low tail. I can't figure it out, I can't tell if it's uncertainty or something with the birds. He has had no pressure around birds. Any help, thoughts things to try would be appreciated. I'm looking for help not smart remarks, thanks.

cjhills
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Re: 11 month old gsp dropping tail on point

Post by cjhills » Thu May 11, 2023 5:38 am

cheetome:could be
He is probably feeling some kind of pressure. What do you do when he points? It is not what you think is pressure.
How you flush the bird is extremely important. Walking in from directly behind the dog can be a issue, blank pistols fire close to the dog are sometimes a problem, the dog knowing the bird will be flushed, with no retrieve could be a problem. Maybe on a check cord and steady training.
Many things can be perceived as pressure by the dog.
Some kind of training birds you can shoot will very likely help him. You don't say if you are using wild birds or planted birds. Planted could be the cause.
Hopefully more experience with rewards will jack him up. Could even consider letting him chase, but that is a whole new can of worms and pretty extreme............Cj

cheetome
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Re: 11 month old gsp dropping tail on point

Post by cheetome » Thu May 11, 2023 6:21 am

I'm using planted birds in a launcher. Mostly pigeons but I've tried chuckar too. I've had him running free and on the check cord. The first few times I tried to style him up now I just let him stand and then my training partner circles around and flushes. We have shot the bird and sometimes not. A couple times the bird was missed and he chased. He is fired up about birds just not the point. I feel it's either something he perceives as pressure or anticipation of taking out the bird. Options to train on wild birds are few so popping pen raised from a launcher is the best scenario for me.

cheetome
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Re: 11 month old gsp dropping tail on point

Post by cheetome » Thu May 11, 2023 6:23 am

I've also noticed the check cord seems to bother him so maybe moving to the collar would be better?

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Re: 11 month old gsp dropping tail on point

Post by RayGubernat » Thu May 11, 2023 7:53 am

I would do some drills in the yard for a month or two. I personally do heel/whoa drills in the yard with a pigging string, starting when they are about 4 months old, but for you...that ship has sailed. Have the dog stand on a barrel, bench, table...whatever and stroke them up. Let the dog stand there for a while and if they let down...stroke them up again.

As far as running the dog in the field, I would try stop to flush methodology instead of having the dog do the point the trap thing as it is sudden and is far less pressure. You can always go to the dog after you pop the bird and stroke them up.

I would NOT introduce the e-collar at this time. That is a whole different kind of pressure. A check cord is fine.

Hope this helps.

RayG

cjhills
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Re: 11 month old gsp dropping tail on point

Post by cjhills » Thu May 11, 2023 8:13 am

If you have access to a good solid, steady dog running them together can help.
keep trying to figure out what he is feeling and use as little pressure as you can. Depending on how good he is collar conditioned go very carefully.
Some very talented dogs do not handle pressure well. They think they no how to do things best. Competition may be a bit different.
I do like to have a nice whoa command ........Cj

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Garrison
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Re: 11 month old gsp dropping tail on point

Post by Garrison » Thu May 11, 2023 11:10 am

cheetome wrote:
Thu May 11, 2023 6:23 am
I've also noticed the check cord seems to bother him so maybe moving to the collar would be better?

As cj shared, you and the dog have your wires crossed. What you feel is pressure, and what the dog feels as pressure are two very different things. The dog is obviously feeling a lot of it, if he is deflating on point or is bothered by a check cord.

It could be a lot of things, but they all involve your approach to this point. The way you approach the dog on point, a big one is what process did you use to introduce gun fire? Are you talking to the dog at all while on point or touching it, are you or your training partner moving really slow? Is there any tension on the check cord when the dog is pointing? Have you corrected the dog on birds? Was the dog ever spooked by a launcher, what direction and where is the wind when the dog makes scent etc.? But, I think you may have self identified one of your main pressure points in your quote. I imagine the dog may be associating previous “yard work”, where too much pressure was exerted with your set up now. What exactly is the problem with the check cord? Has the dog shut down when you were attempting obedience work?

In an interview I heard with Martha Greenlee who wrote training with Mo, as well as during a discussion with Jerry Kolter, both very well known trainers choose to avoid any work on the check cord in the yard to avoid these type of issues. They instead do all their work in bird/training fields to keep the dog bold, confident and focused on game. They may not be actively finding birds during the training session, but the dog knows they have found them there before. If the dog is thinking about the check cord rather than birds, you caused an issue, and you need to back up. I agree with Ray, work some wild flushing birds (stop to flush) and leave the dog alone. Also agree with not introducing an ecollar, more pressure is not a path to success. The dog needs to be happy on the check cord, the cord should be a non issue. The dog should look forward to the chance at putting it on and doing some work. It needs to want to hunt and pull some on the check cord when you are in the field. I would personally avoid any corrections around game and keeping my hands off the dog while on point for now. When you have a bold dog again, I would also subscribe to their philosophy of only correcting after flight, not while on point. I would also get a short check cord and have the dog get used to dragging it around during fun runs in the field. An 8’ piece of air hose works well because it doesn’t get hung up.

Garrison
“Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in.”
- Mark Twain-

cheetome
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Re: 11 month old gsp dropping tail on point

Post by cheetome » Thu May 11, 2023 2:29 pm

Thank you for the replies, I will try the suggestions given. Much appreciated!

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mm
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Re: 11 month old gsp dropping tail on point

Post by mm » Fri May 12, 2023 4:55 am

I would stop using the launcher.

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DonF
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Re: 11 month old gsp dropping tail on point

Post by DonF » Fri May 26, 2023 9:18 am

You have the remote launcher in your hand and not using it. Don't spend your time looking for the bird, watch the dog! if it moves at all immediately pop the bird. Tail starts to drop, pop the bird. Dog come's into scent cone see if you can pop the bird before the dog can point it. Keep your mouth shut and your hands to yourself. Do not come from behind the dog to flush, circle around and get the bird between you and the dog and come at the dog. I suspect that your dog want's the bird more than you do but the problem with the dropping tail is man made!
I pity the man that has never been loved by a dog!

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