Kennel questions

GA1dad · Post by **GA1dad** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:00 pm

Well, I just got the second half of my GSP breeding pair. I guess I'm about to venture into a formal kennel business. I have a large pen that I'm keeping them in now and am about to build proper living quarters. I would appreciate any advise on pen details, and possibly pictures if you don't mind sharing.

Also, any advice on the business end of it is welcome too. Any tidbits that you learned the hardway???

Jay

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:24 pm

If you are going to breed then you need to have dogs that are at the top of the gene pool. Raising pups is not a money maker. When you see the prices of some of the pups it makes you think it is a good field to get into. However, the people asking those type of prices are using dogs that they probably have thousands of dollars tied up in by the time they buy a top quality dog, spend thousands to prove the dog on the bench and in the field before they even consider breeding them. You also have the x-rays and other health issues to cope with.

Given all of these concerns you need some nice kennel runs that are near 16 ft long and four ft wide if they are to be kenneled outside. I would use a chainlink fence at least 6 ft high and an insulated dog house that will protect from heat and cold and wind.

These are just some of the things I think you need to have before you even get started. I just am not sure why any one would or should plan on a breeding kennel before you have the dogs you have rasied and trained and have turned out so well that you have people wanting pups from them. Much nicer to raise pups that someone wants rather than produce pups and try to sell them.

Ezzy

Post by **topher40** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:56 pm

I would like to second Ezzy's thoughts.

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:05 pm

If you will search kennel manufacture web sites, many to choose from, you can see excellent design ideas and plans. One kennel design is for a whelping pen to have a step over panel at the bottom that when you want to let the mom out the pups can't get out. The mom just hops over the 12" tall or so panel. It too can be made to open for cleaning.
Just something to think about.

snips · Post by **snips** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:05 pm

What kind of "formal kennel business" are you getting in?

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 9:39 pm

Hey Ezzy, to quote something I was once told: "There is all kinds of money in dogs.... As much as you want to spend!"

Some thoughts from the "peanut gallery":

Assuming your dogs are from proven breeding stock for a POTENTIAL breedable dog. ONLY POTENTIAL, NOT GUARANTEED!

$600-800.00 Cost of Quality pup
15.00 NAVHDA Registration
35.00 AKC Registration
30.00 AF Registration
37.00 Individual GSPCA Membership or parent club membership apprx.
45.00 NAVHDA Membership
30.00 local Breed Club Membership
650.00 Vet bills at 17 mo.s old for DHLPP's, Rabies, Heartworm,
Bordatella,Microchip, Tattoo, DNA Test,etc...

between
$1,442.00 and 1,642.00 before I began proving in Hunt Test, Trials
and Shows
+
$1200.00 in Entries for Hunt Test to get a Junior, Entries in Field Trials for
3 placements in 4 Trials with NO POINTS WON, Entries in
26 Shows for 4 Points towards a CH
+5000.00 APPROX. in gas, food and lodging expenses to be at these
venues

= between
$7,642.00 and 7,842.00 and he is not yet proven as far as I'm concerned.

$ 500.00 APPROX. for OFA, CERF, Cardiac, Thyroid, etc. before breeding.
= between
$8,142.00 and 8,342.00 at 17 mo.s old for a Junior Hunter with some Show
wins and Field Trial placements.

I'll assume I'll spend another $10,000.00 to 20,000.00 to prove him to the level I desire and this is only for the Dog, no B!tch included!

Litter of pups sold at $800.00 a pup X 10 pups = $8000.00
You do the math.
Oh, and I didn't iclude the cost of the concrete pad for the 4 run kennel, the cinder block dog boxes, roofing and chain link runs(approx. $4000.00) or the Quality dog feed or....... or......... or..........

FWIW

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:02 pm

Guys,

I just posted my thoughts and didn't mean to instigate eveyone pouring on GA1dad. I think we have made our point. There isn't any reason to jump on anyone for expressing his thoughts and asking for some advice. So help him out and express your thoughts if you want but please keep it reasonable. I want to hear more along the lines of Snips question.

Thanks

Ezzy

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:10 pm

Sorry Ezzy and GA1dad. My sincerest apologies.
I didn't mean to seem like I was being an a$$, just throwing out some math that goes into getting a dog to a breedable level. I guess I'm just being a lil sensitive, as I currently have 7 Rescue GSP pups here from NC for the week before they finish their trip to Wis. next weekend, that were left in a kill shelter because they couldn't be sold.
Here is there story:
http://wigsprkisses.blogspot.com/

Post by **topher40** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:31 pm

Now that the hazing has ceased, I think, Now on to answering your question. You can do anything you want as far as kennels are concerned, Personally I have 8x8 pens on dirt, inside and out. They are 5ft x 16ft cattle panels cut in half then coverd by 2inch x 2 inch welded wire. If I had my way and the lottery's money I would put all my dogs on Concrete with heated floors, automatic waterers, feeders, trainers and a gold brick. Really it depends on how elaborate you want to get and how much money you have to spend.

If you do some looking in the archives you can find all sorts of info on design and specs. If you have more questions after that let us know. Good luck and dont take any of the crap we are giving you, just think about some of the things we are saying!

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 10:32 pm

ezzy, i don't think Bruce is that far off.

I guess to answer GA1Dad's request for tidbits, the biggest tidbit is that you had better go into it for the love of it, because you are not going to make any money off of it.

GA1dad · Post by **GA1dad** » Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:18 pm

Hmmm, sorry it took so long to get back here. Seems I missed all the fun

I kinda expected a hazing though,,,,,,,,,,,, seems like dog breeders are a snooty group as a whole. :roll: Seriously though, thanks for the replies.

Snips, maybe I chose my wording badly, but here is what I mean by formal. To breed registered GSP's with the intent of selling registered puppies by means of advertisement and word of mouth.

I guess you could say I am doing it for the love of the breed. I get so much pleasure in watching my Murdock in the field. I have no intention of making lots of money.

tip · Post by **tip** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:51 am

I have a concrete slab 12x12 with 3 runs 4x12 chain link. I just have dog houses in with them right now but I'm going to build a building with the kennels coming off the side soon with the dog houses inside.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:57 am

Don't want to haze or anything, just want to pass along a variant of a joke I heard once...

Wanna know how to make a small fortune in field dogs? Start with a large fortune.

Best regards,

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:34 am

I like larger kennels. I like them 6' X 16'. I like the wider size because the dogs don't tend to spread their crap around if they have the extra two feet to run. Make them 6' high and COVER them. Have a partition between each kennel to prevent fence fighting and "Cross Breeding". Slope the kennels at 1/4" per running foot to the wash out trough. At the end of the wash out trough, have a filter to catch the hair or you'll have to acid bath your septic system once or twice a year. It's a pain in the butt but it's worth it. Have the total kennel area enclosed with an 8' fence so if a dog bolts from their kennel, they can go nowhere else. It also prevents excessive noise when they can't see people on the road, etc. Have the entire run area under a roof, but with open sides. Don't have the whelping house attached to the kennel. Never wear the boots you've washed the kennel in, into the whelping house. Never let a kennel dog enter the whelping house. Keep everything absolutely spotless; there is never an excuse to make a dog live in filth. Wash your food dishes everynight and disenfect. These are some of the unusual things you may not get advice on. Don't expect to make much money.

Don · Post by **Don** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:26 pm

He's spent a fortune on his dog's but I saw a photo of Wehle's kennel set up' in a book he wrote. :roll: Did you know that the guy raced E. Pointer's in sled dog races? Worthless trivia!

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 2:38 pm

Wait a minute. Don, I have been reading your stuff and so far it is pretty good. Yes, I not only know that Wehle raced his bird dogs in sled races, I live in the snowy north and guess how we keep the dogs in shape in the winter? I have a kicksled. It is pretty cool. Hook the dog to it and off we go. And a dog scooter that looks like a mountain bike, that you stand on, for the summer. Ain't all of us do it from a 4 wheeler or a horse.

You gotta take a ride on a scooter or a sled behind two field trial dogs. Wear your googles, seat belt, and parachute.

I know that Wehle is a controversial figure among pointer people, you either love him or hate him, nothing in between. But when it came to figuring out how to condition dogs, Wehle had it going, mate. Those things he did were borrowed straight from the sled dog people, who really really know how to condition a dog. www.sleddogcentral.com www.dogscooter.com

Don · Post by **Don** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:26 pm

I had a training sled here. It was a wheel type. I hooked a dog up and took off down the road. I "bleep" near killed myself. That was the first and last for me. I used the harness and hooked it up to an old tire and had the dog's pull it. Lot easier on me!

That sled was like a skate board with a stick for a handle an a foot brake that became really hard to find when I needed it. I tried to stop and couldn't find the brake so I tried to turn and did the neatest flip you ever saw. At least that's what the dearly departed said. I sold it to a sled dog racer that knew what he was doing.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Sat Mar 03, 2007 3:31 pm

They use a foot brake, basically just a piece of old snowmobile track hung from the frame and dragging loose on the ground. When you want to stop, you step on the pad. Works pretty good. The scooter is the greatest, and the fastest. Has heavy duty hand brakes like a true mountain bike. I can road two dogs with the rig, we do a little over 20 mph. Goggles are a must for the gravel that comes flying off their feet. The sled is not as fast because snow seems to generate more friction.

Used to fall all the time with a bike, or rather, get pulled down. Have had no problems since following the lead of the sled dog people and going to scooter and sled.

PS Also, am old, fat, and have two replacement hips, so if I can do it and not die (yet) anyone can.

GA1dad · Post by **GA1dad** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:18 am

OK, a septic system is something that I need to figure in. As it is now, their pen is on our concrete driveway next to a hill. For now, I am bagging the solids and rinsing whats left down the hill. I am not too concerned, as this is a temporary setup. But, where I plan to build their permanant kennels is next to a wet weather creek. I don't wanna do anything I shouldn't with concerns to runoff. Reckon I can create a septic system that'll function properly? Any ideas on design?

Also, someone posted here that their kennels were completly covered. My original plan was to do this also. But I was reading that the sun acted as a natural dis-infectant. Whats your take on the subject.

Thanks for the replies folks.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:42 am

I would leave them uncovered in your area with either a small cover at one end so there would be shade or just a canvas you could put over. I do like the sun to hit them.

Ezzy

Don · Post by **Don** » Sun Mar 04, 2007 9:09 am

How far would you have to go to get the septic tank to a good place and how much grade would you have to go up? Worst come's to worst, they make septic pump's to move waste uphill.

If the grade is not to bad and you don't have to go to far, You could just build a concrete trench around the run's to wash into. At the low corner put in a drain and run a drain line away from the kennel to where it's safe into a septic tank made out of a plastic 55 gal drum. Use a 6" id line. For some reason smaller one's seem to plug sometime's and cleaning them out is not a nice job.

Think of it as a septic system for your house.

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