How young is 2 young?

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:16 am

How young is too young to start basic training? ie - sit, stay, come, taking the pup for a walk etc.
In two weeks we will be getting a 7 week old gsp pup, so should I start poddy training as soon as possible?

Thanks

Lawdog · Post by **Lawdog** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:24 am

There is a ton of other posts in here on this subject.
Most importantly dont rush a GSP in hunting training. Let it bond and be a puppy. As far as obedience goes (house training, jumping on you) It is ok to start that young. And dont teach a GSP to sit. They refer back to that when they are older and you start putting pressure on them when your training them to stand to flush shot and fall.
Just my opinion and sure you will get many more.

Lawdog · Post by **Lawdog** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:24 am

OH ya welcome.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 9:22 am

Strider,

Welcome aboard. Lawdog was right. Do what you need to teach the puppy the basic rules of the house and in a few weeks start going for walks some where that it can explore. But leavr th training alone for several months yet. A lot of the heavy training should wait till the pup is a year old at least.

Ezzy

Lab Man · Post by **Lab Man** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:07 pm

Welcome to the Gun Dog Forum. You have received some good advise. I would spend a lot of time with the pup bonding. When the pup gets to 4 months of age I would work very lightly on the come in command and that is it. I would maybe work on it for 10 minutes a day, and in two sessions if its possible. I like to do what I call putting on the miles. I will take young pup in short cover that they will be hunting when they get older and we go for long walks. I keep them on a 30ft lead and I will let them drag it. Let them smell chase, and hopefully you will start to bring the natural hunting and pointing instincts. At this stage I will let them point anything. Good luck

Gun Dog Sponsor: Member discounts E-mail me at mark@coonriverkennels.com for details.

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 4:21 pm

You want to always remember that a puppy is a "sponge" and everything you ever do, good, bad, indefferent, that bugger is learning. It's your job at this age to be sure he is exposed to positive stimulus and not negative. Lot of playing, lots of long walks in the field, lots of birds, lots of love and attention. The formal training will start at 6-8 months. For now, keep it fun. Teach him here, but make it fun. Teach him the "hot dog whoa". That's fun. Let him catch clip wing pigeons and bring them to you. That's fun. Teach him NO. That's not fun, but it'll be one of his most important commands. Don't forget to teach him which side of the bed is his. Right now, it's all positive's and confidence.

hubweims · Post by **hubweims** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:45 pm

house breaking should start immediately. for your well being and his. never be negative about it though. remember if you find accidents (which you will) it's too late to scold. letting him go out more frequently than you believe he needs too is a good way to cut out some of the accidents. if you happen to catch him in the middle of an accident, give a firm no, take him out and then give a potty command when you place him in the yard. learn your pup, he will give cues when he is about to potty. i have a different philosophy on the sit command though. i have weims, which many believe are a close cousin to the gsp, and i am a firm believer in the sit command. i personally have never had a problem with them confusing it with other commands. i believe that sit is a command that can save your dogs life. plus, if your dog is going to be like my dogs and family members as well as hunters, it's a command that you will want for your home and around town. i believe if you teach sit correctly and use it frequently in your everyday life with your dog there will be no confusion. sit is a basic command that will pay huge dividends in family life, and it just may save your dogs life one day.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:23 pm

What you allow a dog/puppy to to you train a puppy to do

I teach whoa instead of sit..
but you will get varying degrees of what to do or not

Dinner time is a great time to play a whoa game by first placing the dish of food at the edge of a counter top or chair..then with one hand hold the pup and with the other start to bring the bowl of food down in a smooth action not to fast or slow as when the pup tries to lunge forward you'll lift the bowl up and when the pup just stands there you'll bring the food down ..it will take a few times the first time for the pup to learn standing there the food comes down moving the food goes away..once you have the food to the ground say OK and release the pup for the food...you can build from there

Also as cute as it is when you get home and puppy is excited DO NOT give the pup attention when he is jumping on you ..this is cute as a pup but giving him attention in that state of mind will only reward it thus making it worse...what you do is when the pup is jumping on you do not look No eye contact even at the pup ignore the cute little guy gently sweeping his hind legs from under him as he is jumping on you and when he has 4 on the floor then give him attention reward the desired behavior

Potty time take him out to the same place when you let him out of the kennel...and when you do take him out don't just scoop him up when done ..some learn that trick and begin to hold it longer and longer wanting to be out ..best to give the pup a few minutes no matter how tired you are

also kenneling if the pup has been out and you first put him in ...do not let pup out when he is throwing a fit scratching at the door ...do not let the pup win that game..again reward calm desired behavior when you do go to the kennel only move toward the kennel when he is standing there when he scratches at the door stop advancing till he is standing there

remember it is a pup so attention spans are going to be short
you can do some little training games but remember you have to make them fun games and short sweet and simple

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 12:03 am

Hubwiems,

We don't teach sit ecause it is a submisive posture that the pup may revert to when put under pressure. It isn't that he will confuse it but just a performance thing.

Whoa needs to be taught at some point anyway so you can start early if you do it without pressure and that may save his life.

Ezzy

hubweims · Post by **hubweims** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 1:49 am

ezzy333,

Good point, well taken, and I am so glad that I found this forum. Love talking and reading all of the advice. There are so many different ways to train our dogs. I think that it really depends on each dog and what the owner has planned for it afield. See, with the versatility of a weim, sit for me is a must. Not only do I hunt quail with my weims, but they are retrievers for me in the dove and duck blind as well. I live in south Mississippi, and we have mild winters that enable my weims to retrieve from water during winter hunting seasons. When in a blind, sitting is a must.

I think a lot of it has to do with how to use the command as well. For instance, in the dove field, at home, and around town for me it is a must. Today, however, I took one of my dogs out for some quail hunting, and not once did I give her the sit command. She worked her tail off for me.

She is whoa broke also when on point. See, I believe on training and giving this command only when on point in front of game. I start young as well, usually with wing on rod. when pup goes on point for wing, I start introducing whoa. My youngest weim (8 months) was staying locked up @ 4 months. I could lay the rod down give whoa, and walk completely away or around him without having him break on the wing. Now, when you put him in front of live birds it's a different story. He's still really young and gets really excited. He will whoa, but when that bird starts dancing around for him, it's often too much for him to bear. I just never give whoa until I have my dogs on game.

With the cross training as a retriever and daily family life, sit is just a must in my regimen, but for someone with no interest in dove/duck hunting I can see and understand why you supplement whoa for sit. It really just goes back to what I have read on here a couple of times. Know what you are planning to do with your dog, and train your dog for what you want out of him/her.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 6:36 am

hubweims wrote:See, with the versatility of a weim, sit for me is a must. Not only do I hunt quail with my weims, but they are retrievers for me in the dove and duck blind as well. I live in south Mississippi, and we have mild winters that enable my weims to retrieve from water during winter hunting seasons. When in a blind, sitting is a must.

Some people get around it by introducing sit only after the dog is doing well in whatever level of steadiness they need out of the dog.

Sitting or laying down on point isn't a problem until it's a problem, then it's a problem.

Best,

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 7:33 am

Greg Jennings wrote: Some people get around it by introducing sit only after the dog is doing well in whatever level of steadiness they need out of the dog.

Sitting or laying down on point isn't a problem until it's a problem, then it's a problem.

Best,

Sitting or laying down on point is never a problem if you understand how to teach a dog to "stand up". My dogs are used for all birds; grouse, pheasant, duck, goose, dove, quail and chukar. They therefore have to do it all. Sit or lay in a dove field, lay in a boat or duck blind, point in the field. This is one of the carry over's from the old days that today's V trainers are starting to change. When you give a dog a command, it should follow that command. If you tell it WHOA (I have that word and use STOP instead), it should WHOA, not sit or lay down. If they do, you teach them to stand up and you have a better trained dog for it. No big deal. It's always bothered me that rather than trying to solve a problem, people try to go around the problems. Meet them head on and get them solved when they develop.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Sun Feb 25, 2007 8:27 am

gonehuntin' wrote:
Greg Jennings wrote: Some people get around it by introducing sit only after the dog is doing well in whatever level of steadiness they need out of the dog.

Sitting or laying down on point isn't a problem until it's a problem, then it's a problem.

Best,
Sitting or laying down on point is never a problem if you understand how to teach a dog to "stand up". My dogs are used for all birds; grouse, pheasant, duck, goose, dove, quail and chukar. They therefore have to do it all. Sit or lay in a dove field, lay in a boat or duck blind, point in the field. This is one of the carry over's from the old days that today's V trainers are starting to change. When you give a dog a command, it should follow that command. If you tell it WHOA (I have that word and use STOP instead), it should WHOA, not sit or lay down. If they do, you teach them to stand up and you have a better trained dog for it. No big deal. It's always bothered me that rather than trying to solve a problem, people try to go around the problems. Meet them head on and get them solved when they develop.

First, I think it's a *great* thing to set up training so that it avoids ever having a problem rather than getting it and having to solve it. Solving problems is a tangent that I'd rather avoid as I have *very* limited time and need to spend it moving the bar forward.

Second, I'm not advocating not teaching sit or down if it is something that someone needs. Just suggesting a way that I've seen people use that for them gets the best of both.

Third, from what I've seen at the NAVHDA tests I've been to, I'd just as soon leave some of the methods of today's versatile trainers to them. I have seen dogs that I liked, but I've seen way too many with flakey issues from *way* too much pressure and laying on of hands. But that's just me and I wouldn't want to try to press my preferences on anyone else.

TIFWIW,

gonehuntin' · Post by **gonehuntin'** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:15 am

Greg Jennings wrote:First, I think it's a *great* thing to set up training so that it avoids ever having a problem rather than getting it and having to solve it. Solving problems is a tangent that I'd rather avoid as I have *very* limited time and need to spend it moving the bar forward.

Here's the thing Greg: If you think about it, anytime a dog is taught any command, it creates a different problem. Remember that old rule "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction"? Well, it's also true in dog training. Get a dog bold and let him range, he stops responding to "here". Teach a dog to come, he shorten's his range. Teach him to retrieve, his staunchness decreases. Staunch him and don't let him retrieve, his retrieving desire lessens. The great retriever trainer, Charles Morgan, used to have a saying: " Training a dog is nothing more than replacing a greater problem with a lesser problem until we are left with the fewest problems possible". It was true then and it's true now.

snips · Post by **snips** » Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:30 am

I think a good trainer is someone that can train without loosing these things tho. I for one do not want to deal with any dog sitting when said Whoa to, or laying, or closing up when taught Come, ect....If dogs are not pressured too young for many of these things they can be totally avoided.