Using Pen-Raised Quail for Training

[Taylor_B]

Recently, my husband and I purchased several adult pen-raised quail to use as training tools with our younger English Setter.
He's never seen real birds, and we figured it's about time he gets to smell a live bird, and not just scent on a wing.
We had the quail for about 2 days, when we harnessed one into a quail harness and planted it out in the brush.
Seemed fine when we set it down - it settled down into the weeds. We had a long twine line tied to the ring on the harness, and the other end tied to a light weight.
We put our dog on a check cord and brought him down to find the bird - we were hoping, as it was alive, that might bounce around or move in the brush a little (just to see how he'd react and if he'd point).
When we got to the bird though, it was dead! Our pup found it just fine and picked up in his mouth, but lost interest fairly quickly as it was dead. We hid it several more times an encouraged him to find it - which he did. But just a shame that it died so soon! While it was in our care, it seemed very healthy - it was eating and drinking just fine - tame, but still skittish in the coop.

Just curious if anyone else has experienced the same issue with quail? I know pigeon are a little heartier - the problem is finding them (We may just need to go trap a few as I can't find anyone who sells them).
Could the Quail have just died from fear of being out of the coop, or harnessed? We're a little reluctant to toss another one on the harness immediately as we don't want them all to keel over before the dog even gets to find them!!!

Any thoughts?
Thanks!

[shags]

Pen raised quail live only to find a reason to die.

A long time ago I came to the conclusion that training quail have to be considered as expendable and not recyclable. Expensive, but it's an expense we deal with. If I get to use them more than one session, it's a bonus. We've had a little bit of success with using a portable call back pen with a call bird left in, but it's no guarantee.

A downside to using harnesses on birds is all the handling you have to do. It leaves your scent on the bird, amd in training sometimes that's not the best thing for the dog. If your birds are that weak, you can use them without the harness, get one or two flushes with them, then recapture with a net for reuse another day. I use my older steady dogs to locate them after the last flush.

Get you some pigeons, it's a lot less headache and $$$ in the long run

[Taylor_B]

Pen raised quail live only to find a reason to die.

A long time ago I came to the conclusion that training quail have to be considered as expendable and not recyclable. Expensive, but it's an expense we deal with. If I get to use them more than one session, it's a bonus. We've had a little bit of success with using a portable call back pen with a call bird left in, but it's no guarantee.

A downside to using harnesses on birds is all the handling you have to do. It leaves your scent on the bird, amd in training sometimes that's not the best thing for the dog. If your birds are that weak, you can use them without the harness, get one or two flushes with them, then recapture with a net for reuse another day. I use my older steady dogs to locate them after the last flush.

Get you some pigeons, it's a lot less headache and $$$ in the long run

Yea - I've been thinking we might just might need to go find pigeons! Luckily, we only paid $2 a piece for the Quail - they were year old breeders, and the farmer was getting rid of them as he was bringing in new breeding stock for 2016.
And you're right - we likely don't even need to harness these guys. I don't know if they've ever even flown before other than just a few feet (they're pretty fat for quail!) Glad to hear that the "dying" thing isn't just something we did wrong. We'll just have to use up the remaining birds and move onto pigeons! (...and maybe a pheasant or two once he gets a little better!)
Thank you!

[mrgordonscott]

Pen raised quail are fine to train with however they are hard to keep. For your own stock of birds you can't beat pigeons. However if you have a bird ranch near you or bird breeder; use the quail for your dogs first hunts. Planting the birds and having them on a string to rework the bird later is also a great idea. I use a slip knot shackle so it can fit any type of bird.

[Taylor_B]

Pen raised quail are fine to train with however they are hard to keep. For your own stock of birds you can't beat pigeons. However if you have a bird ranch near you or bird breeder; use the quail for your dogs first hunts. Planting the birds and having them on a string to rework the bird later is also a great idea. I use a slip knot shackle so it can fit any type of bird.

Thanks Gordon -
We had a "quail harness" that we were using, however, I think it terrified the birds to have it on them. I think the slip knot shackle could definitely be a better idea.

[setterpoint]

i only use quail when my dogs are holding point.the quail are to easy for the dog to catch and that set the training back when i see my dog will point and hold point on pigeons then i put out a few quail and go back to the check cord to make sure the dog points when dog is holding point for me to flush. i wear gloves and let the birds fly out i call it wind washing to kill any scent of me on the bird and let the dog find on its own i try to keep it real as pos if all goes well i shoot the birds for the dog

[Gordon Guy]

I would stay away from poor flying pen raised quail. They'll teach your dog to not respect game birds by learning that they can crowd them, (Get too close or worst yet,scoop them) Use them to mess with young puppies, one or two or maybe three times at most. keep pup on check cord to control the situation and don't let pup catch birds more than a couple times. It's okay to let a young pup catch them the first couple times to build that fire, but no more than that as it may cause you problems down the road.

And I bet you're not using Bobwhites or Tennessee Reds?

[Taylor_B]

I would stay away from poor flying pen raised quail. They'll teach your dog to not respect game birds by learning that they can crowd them, (Get too close or worst yet,scoop them) Use them to mess with young puppies, one or two or maybe three times at most. keep pup on check cord to control the situation and don't let pup catch birds more than a couple times. It's okay to let a young pup catch them the first couple times to build that fire, but no more than that as it may cause you problems down the road.

And I bet you're not using Bobwhites or Tennessee Reds?

Hi there Tom
We're in the process of acquiring pigeons - we're building a larger coop, and then hoping to get a few early this spring!
As for the quail, we haven't used them much since that first attempt. The few we purchased were coturnix.

We still have 3 in the coop (not really sure what to do with them right now!). Our older dog will find them immediately, and as you said, I don't wanna encourage bad behavior in our younger dog.
We're definitely planning on pigeons - I've heard they're much heartier, and can be trained to return back to the coop!

[Sharon]

Ezzy's the pigeon expert Draw on his knowledge. From what I've read on here only the babies born come back not the parents you buy , but I could be wrong.

[DonF]

If you get ferals, adult birds will come back. Not all but most. Getting them penned up a couple months and then on a nest with young one's, they'll come back. The young one's only know one home, you got them to. Homer's I'm not so sure of but the first six I got I kept penned all winter. Then when they got on nest's I let them go out the front of the loft. I have a front and back. The back is a large fenced in pen, they can't get out there. Also I did let then come and go as they pleased right from the start. I don't know if I was lucky or what but I never lost one of those first six. I have a volunteer racer out there, been here well over a year and just never left. Never did anything to keep it here but it stayed. Best thing to do to get new pigeons is to get squeaker's, very young birds. The bridge of their nose will still be light and they will have some long hair's on their head. Make sure they are eating and drinking on their own. Take them home and lock them up until the nose darken's and the hairs are gone. Then let them free fly a couple weeks. When you do that, Don't leave all the bobs on re-entry down. leave one down. After a few days drop another one bob away. Keep dropping them till they are all down and the bird's are coming back in. Don't take them out, open the bobs and let them out. make sure you open all the bobs to let them out every time. In the beginning they usually just go out on the landing platform and look around awhile, don't force them out. I have the back pen and an entry door for it also. Started young birds out in it for quite a while. They couldn't go anywhere other than back in the loft. Some guy's use, I think they call it, a settling cage. Won't attempt to explain it as I've never used one.

The effort to get them started is well worth it. I haven't bought a pigeon in about 30 yrs, the birds I have now, ferals, are out of the one's i brought with me 25+ years ago. My feraals I got from a local racer I know, they were free.

I would also suggest you invest in a remote trap set of find someone to train with that has them. The big problem with training birds is they don't act like wild birds. Pen raised quail and chukar will allow your dog to cheat. With the remote, you think for the pigeon and you'll have the dog stopping much much quicker than any other way. All hands off, no check cord needed. Make sure you figure out how to keep your mouth shut when the dog mess's it up and it will a number of time's. Shut up and go on to the next bird.