GSP help
GSP help
I have an almost 2 year old male GSP which I need some help with. This is my first dog Im having trouble with obedience which I know has been brought on by myself becoming to reliant on the e-collar. The problems I'm having is with him chasing everything especially rabbits around the house, he loves to chase the small tweety birds too. Thats his main focus which I need to turn his focus onto me. He is a big strong male with a lot of prey drive which is good but I am having trouble getting it under control. When he was around 6 months I started him on the e-collar which was working great but now he just blows it off most of the time and thinks he doesn't have to listen to his commands. How should approach getting this under control? Recently I have gone back to the basics using the check cord instead of the e-collar and also putting the dog back on the whoa table to make sure he really understands the command (which i will admit was probably overlooked/rushed the first time around). Last hunting season was our first together and he's got a great nose (He's an NA pz.1 dog) but isn't really steady and tend to chase a lot. He tends to range pretty far. To recap I'm looking for help with obedience especially the recall, steadiness, not chasing game and getting his focus on me and not everything else there is outside. Thanks any help would be greatly appreciated!
Re: GSP help
When he was around 6 months I started him on the e-collar which was working great but now he just blows it off most of the time ." quote
What e collar are you using and what level out of the choices?
What e collar are you using and what level out of the choices?
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett
Re: GSP help
Its time for a formal and proven training program where you should start with stopping and standing before progressing to stop to flush drills to take the chase away. It sounds like this dog showed ok potential in the natural ability department and not wanting to screw him up the owner didnt follow a sequential training program, believing the dog will figure it out on it's own. Happens all the time, be consistent , paitent and have fun.
Re: GSP help
every good GSP I've owned and that would be over 40 in the last 45 years chased tweety birds,rabbits and squirrels in my yard
it never transferred to any problems while hunting game birds out in the field
it never transferred to any problems while hunting game birds out in the field
currently two shorthairs, four english pointers, one Brittany, one SPRINGER a chihuahua and a min pin lol
Re: GSP help
I have a garmin e-collar with 18 levels of continuous stimulation. I am having trouble getting his focus on me during training and obedience all he seems to care about is the small critters and birds I want him to work and stay closer to me. Should I continue to keep him on the check cord until he is responding better to my commands. Also I have been reading the navhda green book as a guide. Thanks
Re: GSP help
Also with the e-collar we are usually on an 8.
Re: GSP help
I have a garmin e-collar with 18 levels of stimulation. Lately it's been on setting 8 which is probably high but he will just ignore the lower settings. I took out the check cord and we have been working on obedience. Also I have reread the navhda green book along with the video which we are starting out on the whoa table but he seems to be interested in other things during training instead of myself. How can I shift his focus and also I want him to stay closer to me and not venture out as far as he did last hunting season. What are some methods you guys have used to solve these problems. Thanks for the help
Re: GSP help
As far as the recall goes, it sounds like the dog doesn't respect you. You may have became to dependent on the e-collar. Get out the check cord again and leave the e collar transmitter at the house for a while. When you say here drag his butt back to you. A dog is a lot like a kid, once they find out your not going to do what you say or that there is no repercussion for their bad behavior then there will be no respect. Here means HERE, not "ok but let me get this first." Heck, my 18 month old GSP is about 95% on recall with out the collar, last night I let her out of the pen and she flipped me off. I said here one time, she didnt come. I went in the house got the collar and the check cord and we practice for a minute, not using the collar just the check cord. Let her go and she was great! The e collar as a long invisible check cord, but if the dog is with in reach then you should do the disciplining and don't touch the collar.
Just my .2 cents and it might not be any good, just my experience.
Just my .2 cents and it might not be any good, just my experience.
-
RayGubernat
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Re: GSP help
First things first.
A bird dog has to earn the right to be off lead, IMO. That means to me that the dog has to come when called...RIGHT NOW!...and stop INSTANTLY and grow roots when I holler whoa.
If your dog does not, I suggest that you go back to the yard, get a looped checkcord, prong collar, pinch collar or wonder lead and do 15 minutes of heel/whoa drills every day...twice a day, until the dog walks with you, its nose at your knee stopping when you stop, going when you go, turning when you turn. Insist on compete compliance. Work toward perfection.
The second part of the yardwork is the come command. The dog must come...INSTANTLY...the first time you issue the command. if it does not... do not repeat the command. Instead...go chase the dog down, drag it over to you and stand it up. Do not be gentle about it. Be firm, not abusive, not rougher than you need to be, but firm and silent. The dog has to understand that if it does not comply with the first command, it is going to get ugly...quick. Don't yell...in fact don't speak. Do not do more than about two corrections in a session. Tpoo much discipline can be a turn off. If the dog isn't getting it, do not get frustrated and abouve all do not lose patience. Put the dog up and you go do something else.
Once the dog has these two commands down in the yard, go out and repeat the process in the field. Demand the same level of performance and if yo9 don't get it, put the dog away and go back to the yard for a few more days.
on the e-collar thing, it is obvious that you have slowly but surely ratcheted up the e-collar stim to the point where the dog is ignoring even high level stim. It is very common for a new user to slowly but surely increase the e-collar intensity in response to a reluctant dog. By doing this, you are essentially "nagging" the dog and it will learn to tune you ou at higher and higher stim levels. Dogs can tolerate very high levels of e-collar stim if they have become conditioned to it.
For the future, it is far, far better and more effective to jump the stim level up several levels and smack the dog with it for non-compliance. The greatly increased stim will startle the dog and get its attention. Once you have the dog's attention you can train it.
You need to reset that response if you can. It is far kinder to the dog and far better for its long term future as a gun dog to have it responding to low level stim instad of having to rely on high level stim.
Once the dog is responding VERY well to the commands in the yard you can attempt to re-set the e-collar response. The goal is to use as little stimulation as you possibly can to get the response you desire.
With the collar on at a very low level, 1 or 2, AND with a checkcord on the dog as well, give a command, like come. At the same instant that you give the verbal command, pop the checkcord and give a nick with the e-collar. if the dog does not instantly comply, drag the dog in to you with the checkcord. As before, do not be gentle. Be firm, not abusive, not rougher than you need to be, but silent and firm. After a few minutes try again. Repeat with the nick and the pop at the instant you issue the verbal command. The dog, in all lielihood will comin much more readily.
After a few sessions and the dog responding well to the verbal with nick and check cord pop, leave off the checkcord. Issue the command and give the nick. if the dog comes in....wonderful. If it does not, spin the dial up to a high setting(not the max setting but close to it) and give the dog an eight second high hard one. while you go and get the dog physically. make the dog stand there so it sinks in, then release the dog. After a few minutes, get the dog's attention, issue the command and simultaneously give the dog a low level nick.
Most dogs will have figured out,by this time, that if they don't come right in, their whole world is gong to come crashing down around their ears. o they respond to that low level nick, not because they fear the nick...but because they know what comes next.
FWIW, I have some of the biggest running most independent minded pointers you could imagine. I rarely have to use the e-collar on them and when I do it is always a 1 or 2 (out of 6) and almost always just a nick. WHY??? Because they know what comes next, and it ain't a pretty picture in their mind.
Take your time, start at the beginning again and this time, go through it step by step, seeking and demanding the highest level of cooperation all the way along. Do not settle for less.
Always remember: "What you allow...you encourage." Keep striving for perfection and you will usually come darn close.
RayG
A bird dog has to earn the right to be off lead, IMO. That means to me that the dog has to come when called...RIGHT NOW!...and stop INSTANTLY and grow roots when I holler whoa.
If your dog does not, I suggest that you go back to the yard, get a looped checkcord, prong collar, pinch collar or wonder lead and do 15 minutes of heel/whoa drills every day...twice a day, until the dog walks with you, its nose at your knee stopping when you stop, going when you go, turning when you turn. Insist on compete compliance. Work toward perfection.
The second part of the yardwork is the come command. The dog must come...INSTANTLY...the first time you issue the command. if it does not... do not repeat the command. Instead...go chase the dog down, drag it over to you and stand it up. Do not be gentle about it. Be firm, not abusive, not rougher than you need to be, but firm and silent. The dog has to understand that if it does not comply with the first command, it is going to get ugly...quick. Don't yell...in fact don't speak. Do not do more than about two corrections in a session. Tpoo much discipline can be a turn off. If the dog isn't getting it, do not get frustrated and abouve all do not lose patience. Put the dog up and you go do something else.
Once the dog has these two commands down in the yard, go out and repeat the process in the field. Demand the same level of performance and if yo9 don't get it, put the dog away and go back to the yard for a few more days.
on the e-collar thing, it is obvious that you have slowly but surely ratcheted up the e-collar stim to the point where the dog is ignoring even high level stim. It is very common for a new user to slowly but surely increase the e-collar intensity in response to a reluctant dog. By doing this, you are essentially "nagging" the dog and it will learn to tune you ou at higher and higher stim levels. Dogs can tolerate very high levels of e-collar stim if they have become conditioned to it.
For the future, it is far, far better and more effective to jump the stim level up several levels and smack the dog with it for non-compliance. The greatly increased stim will startle the dog and get its attention. Once you have the dog's attention you can train it.
You need to reset that response if you can. It is far kinder to the dog and far better for its long term future as a gun dog to have it responding to low level stim instad of having to rely on high level stim.
Once the dog is responding VERY well to the commands in the yard you can attempt to re-set the e-collar response. The goal is to use as little stimulation as you possibly can to get the response you desire.
With the collar on at a very low level, 1 or 2, AND with a checkcord on the dog as well, give a command, like come. At the same instant that you give the verbal command, pop the checkcord and give a nick with the e-collar. if the dog does not instantly comply, drag the dog in to you with the checkcord. As before, do not be gentle. Be firm, not abusive, not rougher than you need to be, but silent and firm. After a few minutes try again. Repeat with the nick and the pop at the instant you issue the verbal command. The dog, in all lielihood will comin much more readily.
After a few sessions and the dog responding well to the verbal with nick and check cord pop, leave off the checkcord. Issue the command and give the nick. if the dog comes in....wonderful. If it does not, spin the dial up to a high setting(not the max setting but close to it) and give the dog an eight second high hard one. while you go and get the dog physically. make the dog stand there so it sinks in, then release the dog. After a few minutes, get the dog's attention, issue the command and simultaneously give the dog a low level nick.
Most dogs will have figured out,by this time, that if they don't come right in, their whole world is gong to come crashing down around their ears. o they respond to that low level nick, not because they fear the nick...but because they know what comes next.
FWIW, I have some of the biggest running most independent minded pointers you could imagine. I rarely have to use the e-collar on them and when I do it is always a 1 or 2 (out of 6) and almost always just a nick. WHY??? Because they know what comes next, and it ain't a pretty picture in their mind.
Take your time, start at the beginning again and this time, go through it step by step, seeking and demanding the highest level of cooperation all the way along. Do not settle for less.
Always remember: "What you allow...you encourage." Keep striving for perfection and you will usually come darn close.
RayG
Re: GSP help
I was unsure about putting my tuppence worth into this question as I don't use e-collars or even check cords very much. I don't feel competent enough for the e-collar in particular. I read the original post though and what I did notice was that while the O.P. did say what sort of creatures he does not want his dog to take an interest in , he did not say what sort of creatures he does want his dog to take an interest in.
If the dog also does not know what you DO want it to hunt maybe it has responded in the way that seems best to it ? All of my dogs have chased rabbits, squirrels , little birds and even mice but that came to a gradual stop once the dog/pup discovered what I took pleasure in it finding.
I gave my dogs lots of praise when they hunted and found gamebirds and no praise at all when they "found" tweety birds or mice etc. All the dog got for finding trash was scathing remarks given in a scornful voice . It has always worked for me along with a very occasional bit of check cord use.
I've been told by "experts" in this country that "shaming" dogs does not work . I can only say that it always has worked for me with the pointing breeds so I have kept right on doing it.
Bill T.
If the dog also does not know what you DO want it to hunt maybe it has responded in the way that seems best to it ? All of my dogs have chased rabbits, squirrels , little birds and even mice but that came to a gradual stop once the dog/pup discovered what I took pleasure in it finding.
I gave my dogs lots of praise when they hunted and found gamebirds and no praise at all when they "found" tweety birds or mice etc. All the dog got for finding trash was scathing remarks given in a scornful voice . It has always worked for me along with a very occasional bit of check cord use.
I've been told by "experts" in this country that "shaming" dogs does not work . I can only say that it always has worked for me with the pointing breeds so I have kept right on doing it.
Bill T.
The older I get, the better I was !
Re: GSP help
I asked an acquaintence how his young dog was doing.
Him - "Oh, I have to run him with an ecollar because all he wants to do is mouse."
Me- "How often do you put birds out for him?"
Him- "ummm...put birds out?"
Ain't that big fat "DUH!" Huntin' dogs gotta hunt...
Him - "Oh, I have to run him with an ecollar because all he wants to do is mouse."
Me- "How often do you put birds out for him?"
Him- "ummm...put birds out?"
Ain't that big fat "DUH!" Huntin' dogs gotta hunt...
I have taught my dog "leave it". It has been unintentional training. On walks with prong collarsnor fields with check cord if she starts sniffin or chasing a wrapper i gave a sharp tug and in a commanding voice said "leave it". Now if she is into something i just tell her leave it and majority of the time she moves on to something else. Still a.work in progress. 10 mo old. gsp