"V"'s first bird exposure

[AceofSpades41]

Folks

I know there a lot of V owners out there and I'm looking for some advice. I have a 7.5 month old "v" that I want to expose to something other than song birds this weekend.

I have a hunt club 15 minutes from my house that sits on 700 acres of land. They provide a training area and pigeons if desired.

My question is should I go ahead and expose her to pigeons? I thought about dizzying some and planting them in the field them leading her in and letting her nose and instinct do the rest.

I'm looking for opinions and I know they vary greatly, but she's to a point that she needs to realize there's more to life than song birds.

Thanks
Ace

[tenbearsviz]

For what it is worth. If I had a choice, I would pick quail over pigeons to introduce a pup to. If the choice is a financial one, I would still go with quail.

At that age, she should have a pretty good pray drive going. If it were my dog, I would find a place in your training area that resembles a thin woods and plant it with as many birds as you can afford. Dont dizzy them or pull feathers. Plant them around cover. The woods will give the birds an escape route and your dog will learn to use her nose instead of her eyes. Bird birds and more birds. The stronger the flyers the better. Let her loose and let her sense of smell teach her. When the birds get up, she will chase but loose them in the trees and have to go back to her nose. Keep it positive. Say nothing!!! Have fun!

Just my opinion.... others will differ.

[ssjetset]

I love pidgeons for training,you can use them over and over if you tether them and pick them up after each use. Make your self a small brush pile that the bird will feel secure in then tuck the birds head under its wing and rest it on the ground with its but up, use a check cord and work your dog into the bird using the wind if she starts to get birdy stop her , if she points or not stop her, have someone hold the cord then walk up to the brush and flush the bird, let her chase, the main thing is you don't want the dog to catch ANY birds. I'll add more later.

[Buckeye_V]

Whatever you do, try and not let that dog catch any birds. I am working with a dog right now that has caught too many birds (before I got her). It's a very long process bringing them around.

I would use quail as the dog's first contact with birds. Strong flying quail. Keep it fun and don't let the dog catch any. As tenbears said, lots of birds if you can.

[Wagonmaster]

Here is my rule on catching birds, for what it is worth. Every pup will catch a few, it is important when they do not to make a big deal of it. No! No! NOOO! will serve to make the pup afraid of birds. Where do you think blinking comes from? Better to act as though it is no big deal.


But they should not catch too many. What is too many? Well there is no fixed number it depends on frequency as much as total. If a dog catches two this year and two next year, that is not the same as four in two days. If the dog is starting to catch birds, then the correct reaction is not to make a big deal of it with the dog, but figure out what there is about your training set up that is allowing it to happen and make changes so it does not.

[Yawallac]

Wagonmaster,

EXACTLY!

Every pup is going to catch a bird on occassion. When it happens, I bite my lip (because it was my fault anyway) and pat the pup on the head when he retrieves the bird.

[Vman]

Pigeons and quail are used quite frequently when introducing young dogs to birds. BUT,,, both also create alot of problems. If I were you I would introduce the dog to pigeons in my hand. get the dog excited and encourage it, make it a big deal, get the dog to jump in the air after the bird. Quail will also work for this. Once the dog is bird crazy let the pigeon go right in front of the pup. The bird will take flight and the dog will chase. Again praise the dog, make it fun. Do this several times as needed. Providing the dog has been introduced to gunfire I would then take the dog out and scratch hunt the property. If the dog screws up no problem. It didn`t cost you any money. If the dog points a bird and holds it, hit it hard. I have seen way too many dogs screwed up by the Game Farm and quial that wouldn`t fly and by dizzied pigeons that the dog could catch. Thus my saying that both birds create alot of problems. The best bird you can use for such training is the Hun, but good luck finding any. Second is the Chuckar. If the game farm has either use them. Dogs typically can`t catch them and they will stay on the ground and niether will take much pressure. Closest to wild birds as you will find. Use the checkcord as advised. Once the dog is pointing and holding for the flush you are well on your way.
Just be sure the dog has been properly exposed to gunfire. That is a must.
Where do you live?

Good luck

[AceofSpades41]

I live 20 miles west of Richmond the area I'll be working in is a 700 acre a hunt club. It's very convieniant because its a 15 minute drive from my house.

The name of the plantation in Orapax plantation http://www.orapax.com/hunts.html

But if you continue you to the west northwest you run in to similiar public lands. birds of choice Ring Neck and Bob White.

Ace

[AceofSpades41]

Lets try that link again http://www.orapax.com. Hopefully this will work.

Ace

[Vman]

It looks like a nice operation. I bet there are more than one covey of quail out there. Once your dog has been exposed to gunfire and is bird crazy go find some of the coveys. Several contacts with a covey will teach the dog many things in short notice. If you are planting the quail put more than one down together. Much harder for a dog to road in and catch. Pay attention to the quality of the quail. Are they up and gone? Or are they walking around unafraid of you or the dog? Stay away from the crappy birds or your next post will be "How do I keep my dog from catching"? Then you will give the dog heck for catching birds and the dog will be confused and you will need to spend money to get it fixed.

Good Luck

[AceofSpades41]

Get this folks I made a reservation for tomorrow at Orapax for training the "v"'s.

For $50 I get the use of their training area made up of about about 200 acres which contains about every type of topography imaginable.

For me though the kicker is they will preset the field for you with regards to bird type.....either Ring Necks, Bob White Quail, or Pigeons your choice.

For me I askedhat they set it up with pigeons, I wanted their first experience to be with a strong flier because the pen raised quail are unpredictable. But for us the object for tomorrows adventure is fun and birds, birds, birds .

Let you folks know how it turns out.

Ace

[HUTCH]

I learned something from watching a seminar by Bill Gibbons and I have used it with great success. he would allow the dog to chase and catch a couple birds while introducing them to birds and gunfire. This is so that the dog knows he has power over the bird and so that the gun shot comes just as he is grabbing the bird so he wont be gun shy. I know everyone thinks catching birds is bad but at the beginning it is great to really lite a fire under the dog.


My setter never wanted to retrieve a bird until I let him catch a few. At first he acted like he was afraid to pick the bird up but once he caught one he was much more fired up and loves to retrieve now. I really like this introduction method.

Brandon

[Vman]

I learned something from watching a seminar by Bill Gibbons and I have used it with great success. he would allow the dog to chase and catch a couple birds while introducing them to birds and gunfire. This is so that the dog knows he has power over the bird and so that the gun shot comes just as he is grabbing the bird so he wont be gun shy. I know everyone thinks catching birds is bad but at the beginning it is great to really lite a fire under the dog

While I wouldn`t have a problem with the above metod it is OK for some dogs. I will do the same thing only using a duck instead of a quail, or pigeon. The reason being, we don`t want the dog to point ducks. We do want the dog to point quail, pigeons. So establish the dominance issue with the duck. Once that is complete then take the dog into the flyers. Much less stress on the dog with little or no confusion.
I do have a problem with chase/catch/gunfire. Be careful with that. Be sure that the dog is way out there before shooting the gun. As I read it some people may do this at close range. Thats a NO NO. You want the dog as far away as possible when shooting. Then as the dog gets used to the shot you can slowly give him gunfire at a closer range. Remember it is better to be safe than sorry.