tug of war

[mattydub37]

Hi everyone...I have a new GSP and am LOVING her so far...great dog and my first hunting dog. She's 14 weeks right now and we're getting to love on her as a family...

quick question - I'm curious if it's "bad" for me to play tug of war with her and her toys when she fetches? She brings back really well...loves tugging with me and I like it too...just not sure if that will be hard to break her of later when she has a live bird in mouth?

Or am I just overthinking it right now and should just be focused on letting her be a pup and having fun?

Thanks!

[Sharon]

If you plan on using her for retrieving it is not a good idea.
If you still want to do it , win every time.

[smittty]

I PLAY tuggawar with my two setters they know it's a game and its play time ... I say drop it hey drop it.... no harm....then again it's with there toys not birds and they know that== and they are very light mouthed when it comes to birds

[RoostersMom]

I've always heard not to. My Pointer played tug-o-war a lot as a pup with us. She is very hardmouthed, but I have no idea if that trait was there before the games, or if I exacerbated it. I guess I'd err onto the side of caution with that. Would be interested to know what the UK guys think, they do a lot more "natural retrieving" than we do in the States.

[gonehuntin']

If you plan on using her for retrieving it is not a good idea.
If you still want to do it , win every time.

+1. The only time it can be beneficial is if you're having problems with an exceptionally loose mouthed dog.

If you do it, plan on teaching DROP.

[DonF]

I play tug of war with Stormy. When enough is enough he's told leave it and he doe's. I also play at retrieving with him. Then I throw a ball for him, on a 20' check cord, and soon as he picks it up, call him back. When I'm doing that I do not let him play tug of war. I let him hold it a bit and I hold him close to me. Then when I say leave it, I roll the ball forward and down and he just lets go.

[birddogger]

I never have and just prefer not to and would definately advise against it for somebody new to gun dogs. No need to possibly cause a problem over a game when there is plenty of other fun stuff to do.

Charlie

[roaniecowpony]

I do occasionally play fetch with my pointer. But if she won't give a toy easily, I grab her collar and left her slightly and say the give command. No tugowar ever.

[campgsp]

I wouldn't advise it. Teaching the habit could make training harder latter on.
Also there is a chance of development of hard mouthing.

As to playing fetch... don't be in a hurry to take the object from the pup. Let him hold it for a little bit and just praise him for coming back with it.
Then grab the whole object reaching your fingers into his mouth and just take it saying drop or whatever cue you want to use.
Will go a long ways as he matures.

[mountaindogs]

depends on retrieving desire and trainability. Low desire puppies, I do play tug, but I give an ongoing cue like "tug-tug-tug-tug" and then I'll say drop and win and immediatly throw again cause they gave it up to me. I never tug on the "last" retrieve I am going to do.

If puppy seems to be fairly slow learner or regularly living in its own world only following it's nose and less attentive to me, then I would not.

Very gung ho dogs, I do not. They have desire enough. they do not need drive building games.

[mattydub37]

hmm...thanks everyone, really great advice.

I'm struggling a bit though because she's really good at "drop" and she just seems to LOVE tugging with me on the rope or rubber toys. There's NO WAY i can get her doing this outside yet as it's -10 here the past couple weeks! lol. So really our "fetch" games are just in the basement with 20' throws...she loves to "bring it back" (the command I'm teaching her) and then likes to play a tug of war. She does drop as soon as I say so. And I win everytime. My kids (10 and love chasing her with the toy in her mouth too but I see that could be a problem too...

But I read on here all the time to just let a puppy be a puppy and enjoy them, so I'm trying to not take it too seriously yet. I do have perfect start perfect finish and have started going through the DVD's.

Again, thanks for the tips everyone - I'll try to modify our play time - along those lines what do you guys do indoors? Just throw a toy and let her take it to their bed or safe place? Or do they bring it to you everytime and you just keep doing that?

[EvanG]

If you plan on using her for retrieving it is not a good idea.
If you still want to do it , win every time.

+1. The only time it can be beneficial is if you're having problems with an exceptionally loose mouthed dog.

If you do it, plan on teaching DROP.

I agree. The birdier your dog, the greater the risks of mouth issues. Tug of war with puppies consistently offers fewer upside than risks, and any perceived benefits can be equaled or exceeded by other safer means.

EvanG

[Neil]

I always have playtime with my dogs, but not in the training area.
The most tender mouthed dog I ever had loved playing a rough game of tug of war, would growl, tear at it, hang on as you picked her 70 pounds off the ground. Yet my son use to have her fetch a fresh egg. And always brought the game in the same condition it hit the ground, often still alive and flopping.

Enjoy your dog, play often, and then train in another area. Dogs are very place oriented. Have a playtime place and a workplace.

[slistoe]

Again, thanks for the tips everyone - I'll try to modify our play time - along those lines what do you guys do indoors? Just throw a toy and let her take it to their bed or safe place? Or do they bring it to you everytime and you just keep doing that?

The pups have retrieve toys and they have chew/cuddle/play/their toys. They play retrieve with the retrieve toy and it is put away. They can do what they want with the other toys - unless I call them over and ask them to give it - then they give it to me. Or if the kids ask them to give it - they give it to them. No questions asked. When it comes to people the dog is never allowed to be possesive about anything. If that concept is firmly established and the dog is well aware of what "no" or "leave it" etc. means then tug-o-war could likely be played with no "issues". However, I have not met many folks who were willing to establish such control of their pups and the potential downside of tug-o-war is large.

[mountaindogs]

Slistoe is right! I forgot to mention that I have a specific toy for those that I allow to tug. A different toy that is only for that. It's a rope toy.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Many yrs ago when my oldest son was a young boy (now 47) we use to breed & show dobes.We had a female that he played tug of war with as she was growing up & they both loved it,that being said as she matured into an adult if he went outside to play & had any loose fitting clothes on flapping in the breeze she would tear them off of him.I guess my point is that it can be over done if you don't set some kind of limits.

[mattydub37]

Thanks everyone! Those are very helpful....I've read that I needed to keep toys toys and training aids as such. So far she just has toys. I figured it was a good way to bond and as long as I let her know who's alpha it shouldn't be too bad. I don't let her do ANYTHING now that I don't want her doing later in life - so we're having fun with all the "no's".

This is a great resource and thank you all for sharing your knowledge!

[Nutmeg247]

For me, tug has been, even for training, a good type of non-food reward. But, I don't do it with bumpers or similar, I carry either a tug rope or rag to offer as a reward.

I'd also say I occasionally let my dog win at tug, and don't think it's a big deal. Neil had mentioned growling, and just as the growls are play-growls, somehow they know tug is a game. He does have to drop whenever I say drop, and any accidentally nipped fingers end the game. Letting him win occasionally I think keeps the game more fun. Kids wrestle their parents for fun and still know who's the parent.

Inside, it's good exercise and a good way to burn off a little steam.