a milestone break through

[big_fish]

I have been working on whoa with the pup for a month or so and last night I gave a whoa as we go out the door and he stopped but when I opened the door there was a cat setting on the stoop. It just trotted off around the garage and he saw the whole thing I did give a single whoa after opening the door as he started to move. this may be my favorite part of training regardless flusher or pointer is seeing the lights come on.

[RichK]

How old is the pup and what have you been doing to work on it?

[big_fish]

pup is a 16 week Brittany and we started whoa training at the feed bowl. Then I saw a video on youtube where a lady used 1 lead hooked to the coller and another around the pups flanks it takes little to no pressure for me I just say whoa and pick both leads up in the air if he moves I move him back to where I said whoa. I do 1 session in the evening you could do 1 in the morning to but my mornings have been packed but when work slows down we will do it then to for about 10 min.

[Johng918]

Wow, that's young mine are to busy chasing bugs and lizards at that age I usually start around 9 months if there ready then.

[Sharon]

That's great . You should be happy!

[ezzy333]

There are at least 100 thinks that are more important than whoa training at that age for your pup. Hope you are working on those as well. but we know a pup can only do about 5 minutes at a time so I always had trouble getting all of the other stuff done so whoa probablyy didn't get started till the pup was a year old or later.

Keep in mind that more pups are ruined by starting to quick and moving too fast then any other reason. Good luck and be careful.

Ezzy

[smittty]

nothing wrong with what your doing in my eye's.. keep it up just go slow ..I start the suitcase method at 8 weeks just for a minute or two a night while watching tv ..as he gets older it will become more formal that's when the pinch collar come in

[ezzy333]

nothing wrong with what your doing in my eye's.. keep it up just go slow ..I start the suitcase method at 8 weeks just for a minute or two a night while watching tv ..as he gets older it will become more formal that's when the pinch collar come in

Nothing wrong in my eye either but I am not so sure about the pup's eye, are you? I have seen too many that did see it as wrong.

Ezzy

[KCBrittfan]

pup is a 16 week Brittany and we started whoa training at the feed bowl. Then I saw a video on youtube where a lady used 1 lead hooked to the coller and another around the pups flanks it takes little to no pressure for me I just say whoa and pick both leads up in the air if he moves I move him back to where I said whoa. I do 1 session in the evening you could do 1 in the morning to but my mornings have been packed but when work slows down we will do it then to for about 10 min.

I commend you for being gung ho and getting some work done with your Britt.

With young puppies I feel 3 - five minute long lessons a day are much better than 2 - ten minute long lessons. The the latter option offers more total training time for pup, but the former option gives him more repetitions and his attention is less likely to wander. 20 - three minute long lessons would be even better for a young pup than both of those options, but a lot of people don't have that kind of time every day.

Don't forget to have fun with your pup. They can learn a lot just by being exposed to a large variety of new things and environments. Just keep him safe and have a good time while he explores. These may not be the type of lessons that come to mind for most people when they think of bird dog training, but pup can learn a lot of important things during these outings.

Best wishes for you and the little guy.

[whoadog]

smittty wrote:
nothing wrong with what your doing in my eye's.. keep it up just go slow ..I start the suitcase method at 8 weeks just for a minute or two a night while watching tv ..as he gets older it will become more formal that's when the pinch collar come in
Nothing wrong in my eye either but I am not so sure about the pup's eye, are you? I have seen too many that did see it as wrong.
Ezzy

Done properly, which means training matched to the individual dog, I have never had a problem introducing "whoa" in young pups (read that: pups less than 12 weeks old). That's in about 30 years worth of training. I am not saying that every pup had the concept down pat by the time they were 16 weeks old. But, they had been introduced and most understood what the command meant. I'm sure I've been a part of this type of discussion before, but, I think it is a good topic to revisit every so often. I think the biggest problem for most people when training whoa in pups is that they try to get the pup to hold too long. Their attention span just is not long enough so a butterfly flits by or a car honks and off they go often to the very angry scolding from the handler. That's where the training error is made and not in the introduction of the "whoa" command itself. This being said, some dogs can obviously come along much faster than others. I trained a 9 month old GSP for client that we did steady to wing and shot from the get-go. The dog was finished at 11 months old. Conversely, I have Vizla that is a personal gun dog that is 2 1/2 and is only now ready for that kind of pressure. Still, the Vizla knew what "whoa" was at 12 weeks. I just never used it in the presence of birds because of other issues she had.

[DonF]

In "the Old Man and The Boy", Robert Rouke wrote of his grandfather working on whoa at the feed bowl. If they didn't wait to be told to eat he'd grab them by the tail and pull them back. I don't do whoa that young but so long as it's reasonably gentle there is probably nothing wrong with it. Other things can be play trained with a pup, right off, retrieving. Used to take pup's into the hall with all the door's closed and play fetch with them. Probably still be a good thing today.

[big_fish]

To say we train for exactly 10 min every time would be false we train until the pup gives me a signal that he is getting tired or bored, usually we end when we get 1 good objective in (whoa ,here or sit or heel)but we may try it 2 or 3 times a day. I have made the mistake early in my gun dog life that when I got them to do it I would just try to get 1 more and 1 more and so on and what a train wreck it ended up being so I try not to push to far. But I also believe the dog can start learning at an early age if we can ask the dog not to mess in the house and sit or speak or give me your paw or kennel up then why not whoa or here or find the bird. I had a fella ask me why do you try to train them so young would you give your kids the keys to a car when they were one yr old and let them go and I told him no and I wouldn't give them to my dog either. It is funny how you can get so many different opinions on training.

[smittty]

keep up the good work Bigfish sounds to me like you got it down..i had a setter pup that I trained buy wolters book..... think the book was gundog anyways that pup was whoa broke and holding birds at 13 weeks I call the breeder Al King and told him how happy i was with the pup and asked him whats next he said flush and kill the bird welp I did that was at 13 weeks old buy the time that dog was a year old I had well over 100 birds killed over him and he turned out to be the best dog I ever owned ....So whats to young

[Winchey]

I do all kinds of stuff with puppies, all my dogs were pretty good, in moderately stimulating environments (house, yard, neighbourhood walk, familiar places) at whoa by 3 months or so. All bets were off in high stimulation levels, training field, woods, around birds, dog park etc... At least until some steam was burned off. I do whoa by placing treats on the ground and picking them back up if they went for them, giving them to them if he held. Progressing to tossing treats or toys all around and walking around him, picking up treats one by one and giving them to them while the held. I did this type of training for pretty well everything.

It is an easy way to teach manners at an early age. Increases bonding, control. Wears a young pup out, and when the dog is ready to be formerly trained he knows why he is being corrected.

[KCBrittfan]

To say we train for exactly 10 min every time would be false we train until the pup gives me a signal that he is getting tired or bored, usually we end when we get 1 good objective in (whoa ,here or sit or heel)but we may try it 2 or 3 times a day. I have made the mistake early in my gun dog life that when I got them to do it I would just try to get 1 more and 1 more and so on and what a train wreck it ended up being so I try not to push to far. . .

Sounds like you already knew most (I do prefer to quit before pup gets bored, but going a little too long does happen -- not usually a big deal) of what I was trying to say in my first point. I apologize for bringing things up that you already know.

By the way, I hope my second point didn't make it sound like I am against early whoa training. I am not. In fact, I think Whoadog's post is excellent:

Done properly, which means training matched to the individual dog, I have never had a problem introducing "whoa" in young pups (read that: pups less than 12 weeks old). That's in about 30 years worth of training. I am not saying that every pup had the concept down pat by the time they were 16 weeks old. But, they had been introduced and most understood what the command meant. I'm sure I've been a part of this type of discussion before, but, I think it is a good topic to revisit every so often. I think the biggest problem for most people when training whoa in pups is that they try to get the pup to hold too long. Their attention span just is not long enough so a butterfly flits by or a car honks and off they go often to the very angry scolding from the handler. That's where the training error is made and not in the introduction of the "whoa" command itself. This being said, some dogs can obviously come along much faster than others. I trained a 9 month old GSP for client that we did steady to wing and shot from the get-go. The dog was finished at 11 months old. Conversely, I have Vizla that is a personal gun dog that is 2 1/2 and is only now ready for that kind of pressure. Still, the Vizla knew what "whoa" was at 12 weeks. I just never used it in the presence of birds because of other issues she had.

With puppies I just like to have a healthy mix between this kind of more formal training and what Bill Tarrant used to call "Happy Timing." I consider "Happy Timing" to be zero pressure fun times afield during which pup learns about crop ground, woods, creeks, lizards, mice, crickets, etc., etc. The whole world is new to pup. Its a lot of fun to watch him experience things for the first time.

I think you're doing great with your pup.