E-collar barking

[ashtrainer]

My Labrador has started barking whenever I correct him with the e collar. He does it whatever level he is at. He starts barking at me every time he gets corrected Ive tried adjusting levels and Ive shocked myself to make sure its working correctly. I have a dogtra. I don't know how to correct this behavior I don't stop training when he does it but its been going on for a week and it still hasn't stopped.

[kninebirddog]

You need to get a bark collar and let him figure out how to turn off the stimulation himself ...with out you in the picture
right now some how he associates your timing off and thinks barking is what needs to be done
also make sure when you place bark collar on that you have it on correctly
loose and low on the neck will not get proper contact
needs to be snug as high up on the neck and it needs to be very snug pull the strap tight and snug but do not wrench it over.

the difference between a bark collar and e collar is the bark collar will only stop when the dog stops or battery runs out
e collar only works when you press the button and you are somewhere near to try and correct the undesired behavior if your timing is off then the message to the dog is unclear or the dog learns only when you are around will it get corrected

[ashtrainer]

Would you have a bark collar that you recommend? The only time he barks is when I correct him otherwise he is totally silent how will he get the point without me being there if he doesn't bark unless I'm there correcting him?

[crackerd]

What are you correcting the dog for? Getting up on the sofa? Not brushing its teeth? A training correction by chance? This has nothing - absolutely nothing - to do with a bark collar or how it can rectify the situation. It's all about pressure the dog feels, or perceives, from the correction.

And this -

He does it whatever level he is at. He starts barking at me every time he gets corrected Ive tried adjusting levels and Ive shocked myself to make sure its working correctly.

- is pretty indicative that you didn't collar condition the dog "correctly" before you began using the collar for making those corrections.

MG

[EvanG]

Would you have a bark collar that you recommend?

No, absolutely not. I don't generally like them anyway as they tend to illcit the very reaction your dog has shown. Bark collars are for trainers too lazy to train their dogs, generally speaking. Mind you, I'm a major proponent of e-collars; just not bark collars.

The issue you have is not something that should have any effect on your dog's working career. He barks when he's corrected or forced with the e-collar, but not any other time, right? What's the problem? If he's not a barker in general, I don't think you need to address this at all.

EvanG

[crackerd]

He barks when he's corrected or forced with the e-collar, but not any other time, right? What's the problem? If he's not a barker in general, I don't think you need to address this at all.

A little clarification, Evan. Are you soft-shoeing it because this guy (or gal) doesn't know how to train with the e-collar, or are you condoning a dog that barks when it's stopped in the field for a correction awaiting the next command? Which implicitly says it's ok for a retriever, or any retrieving gundog, to be vocal afield? Would hope not...

MG

[EvanG]

....are you condoning a dog that barks when it's stopped in the field for a correction awaiting the next command? Which implicitly says it's ok for a retriever, or any retrieving gundog, to be vocal afield? Would hope not...

MG

A vocal response to electrical stimulus appears to be his only vocal issue. Unless he plans to nail his dog all day afield why would that be a problem for a gundog? He hasn't said he vocallizes any other time. In fact, he said he didn't.

EvanG

[sdsujacks]

Just so I don't come across this problem with my lab I have a few questions. Sorry to the OP for bringing up my own question here, but I think its relevant..
Mine is 8 months old, this fall every time I take him out, hunt with them, train him, run him, anything fun, I put the collar on him. I don't turn it on or even carry the transmitter with me, just trying to associate it with anything fun, get him excited when the collar comes out. So he has never been shocked yet.
In a couple weeks once the season finishes up I will start introducing the collar to him. I have read Dokken's book and watched George Hickocks videos, I plan on using Hickocks technique. Turn on the stimulation, give him the command, turn off stimulation when he does said command to teach him what turns off the stim. Then transfer over to giving command and then stimulation only if he does not obey.

Is there anything else I should be doing to "collar condition" him before I introduce stimulation here in a couple weeks for the first time? Or any other ways that people like to introduce the collar?

[crackerd]

Yeah, if you're training the dog as a nonslip retriever - i.e., a handling retriever - ditch the Hickox method and follow Evan's or Mike Lardy's program instead.

Evan, betcha buttons to ladybugs the OP's problem inevitably will carry over to the dog barking in anticipation of the stimulation - or would if he were training the dog with anything but direct pressure (you know, Let's shock the dog to stop it or to get its attention). Vocalizing's vocalizing, whatever elicits it, and to me unacceptable wherever.

MG

[EvanG]

Evan, betcha buttons to ladybugs the OP's problem inevitably will carry over to the dog barking in anticipation of the stimulation - or would if he were training the dog with anything but direct pressure (you know, Let's shock the dog to stop it or to get its attention).

As I see it, he would then have a problem worth solving. You probably recall the Jim Kappes VHS tapes of his seminar with Bruce & Wayne in MN. He made a comment about variable intensity e-collars, stating he didn't like them much because he thought no one 'crime' was more or less important than another, so why correct hard for one, or less for anther. To me, that missed the greater point. We don't vary intensity to suit a crime. We vary it to suit the dog.

Vocalizing's vocalizing, whatever elicits it, and to me unacceptable wherever.

MG

As I see it not all vocal outbursts are equal. It's not the same for a dog to vocalize when he's excited as it is to vocalize out of frustration, or anger. And I don't think a particular dog that is sensitive to e-stimulus reacting vocally to it, but not over anything else is equal - inasmuch as it representing something to correct. If it does cross-over to anticipation, or excitement, etc, we then have a problematic vocal issue to solve.

I understand that we don't see this one eye to eye. But that's wbere I'm coming from on it. I don't mean to be argumentative about this, and we usually do see things the same. I just don't see this one the same.

EvanG

[4dabirds]

I am curious on this one . Why is the dog barking at the handler when it is corrected? If the dog is properly collar conditioned shouldn't it associate the correction with non compliance . It seems to me the dog is collar wise and knows the correction is coming from the handler. I would try to give the dog a different picture. Hide the transmitter in your pocket so the dog does not see it , give the command once and if the dog does not comply correct the dog. Use no emotion when you are training and keep quiet other then the command. Praise the dog for success. Let me know if this works.

[EvanG]

I am curious on this one . Why is the dog barking at the handler when it is corrected?

How do you know the dog is barking at the handler? It sounds to me like he's just barking in response to stimulus.

EvanG

[brittfans]

I have a dog that does the same thing ,he doesn't do it every time .Evan at the lowest setting some times i get a verbal response.I interpret as he knows he has to do the trained response to the command or he will get more pressure from the collar.so to me the bark is the pressure or the anticipation of a correction for not doingwhat he knows is correct?

[4dabirds]

Because the owner wrote "he starts barking at me"

[crackerd]

Because the owner wrote "he starts barking at me"

Doesn't matter if the dog's barking to beat the band - whole lot of problems going on here, starting with collar conditioning gone awry (if it's gone anywhere), wrong use of stimulation (direct pressure - preferred method of pointing dog trainers everywhere) and last but not least, a handler seemingly without a clue at how to train with the e-collar. And we still don't know what he's "correcting" for.

But prospective e-collar trainers need to know, way in advance of this same thing happening to you: You can't go back to square one after a dog's been shall we say debilitated or made dispirited by wrongheaded or -handed use of the e-collar.

MG

[landonman]

Your dog is collar wise A dog came to me that way from a friend. I told him I would try. First I put 2 D size flash light batteries on his regular collar 24 7 Then I put the e collar on buzz just to get his attention. By the way when I took his regular collar off and put the e collar on. I put another e collar on my arm. When I wanted to correct I buzzed the e collar on my arm. I have a duel collar system. When he barked I bumped him one 1 and I totally ignored him. You have to ignore bad habits cause he reads you like a book. In short train with the buzzer. If he ignores you, hold his mussel and lightly tap him between the eyes,depending on the dogs temperment. In short you have to rearrange his brain... I think I would hold off on bumping the dog and buzz only your arm for a few days and then the dog once in awhile. landonman