duck dog that breaks

1st timer · Post by **1st timer** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:58 pm

hey everyone,

i just found and joined this forum today looking for some help. i have a two year old black lab that i have trained myself. i have been duck hunting for 10 years now and this is my first dog so obviously my first one to train. i used the waterdog book and dvd. i have been very happy with the results that i have gotten from it and my dog except for one thing: my dog breaks in the field while hunting. in the yard with bumpers he is very good. whistle trained, decent but still working on directions, and steady at heal. but the second he sees me shoulder my shotgun he takes off. i know he knows what stay means because i can tell him to stay and walk in the house for 10 mins and he wont move. i have tried leashing him to trees while hunting and while training hopeing he could link the two but nothing works. he will almost break his neck hitting the the end of the leash everytime. hundreds of times, literaly. ive scolded him whipped him and now im almost out of hope. i know he is smart and able to learn how to stay till sent because he can do it in the yard. ill throw 3 bumpers and make him sit there for a minute or two sometimes before sending him. i know the problem is in his trainer (me) but i just dont know how to fix this problem. should i go with a shock collar of some sort? a different drill? what? i wish i had the money to send him to a trainer but i dont, and my wife would kill me if he had to be gone for a month. im open to any and all suggestions at this point. his breaking is really the only thing keeping him from being an absolutly great duck dog. i dont want him to ever be a field trial dog or anything, just a well behaved, good hunting dog for me. thanks for any help in advance.

DonF · Post by **DonF** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:46 pm

Quit hitting the ducks until l he quits breaking. have him stay, shoot, miss and stop him. He don't do it right, he doesn't get any.

Doc E · Post by **Doc E** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 7:28 pm

1st timer wrote:1. i used the waterdog book and dvd. i have been very happy with the results that i have gotten from it and my dog except for one thing: my dog breaks in the field while hunting.

2. im open to any and all suggestions at this point. his breaking is really the only thing keeping him from being an absolutly great duck dog.

1. That's your first mistake. You need to get on a MODERN Sequential Training Program (I suggest the SmartWork series)
2. See 2nd sentence of my answer #1.

.

RoostersMom · Post by **RoostersMom** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:48 pm

I liken the "sit" to a "whoa" with birddogs. They need to be taught without birds and then slowly introduced to birds to "proof" them. Obviously you'll need a shooter to work with you so that you can work the dog while the shooter takes down the birds. The dog is stimulated for any attempted move towards the bird - if it works for pointers, it sure should work for retrievers.

Smartworks is also a good set of DVD's. We've used most of that system for our young Chessie and he's turning out very nice.

campgsp · Post by **campgsp** » Tue Oct 23, 2012 11:21 pm

DonF wrote:Quit hitting the ducks until l he quits breaking. have him stay, shoot, miss and stop him. He don't do it right, he doesn't get any.

+1
By you shooting birds for him when he breaks your only showing him that it is ok what he's doing. If he breaks don't shoot. Try using a check cord on him or ecollar.

Doc E · Post by **Doc E** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:07 am

There's a huge difference between a band-aid and a complete program of training.

.

jimbo&rooster · Post by **jimbo&rooster** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:25 am

hunt with a partner and you handle the dog. use a check cord and or Ecollar and make a correction when he breaks. dont give him the bird, let someone else or another dog og get it. If he will do it durring training he knows what you are wanting, he just needs to know it applys all the time....

Ill get on a tell you about my first lab when I have a few minutes.

jIm

Ruffshooter · Post by **Ruffshooter** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:27 am

jimbo&rooster wrote:hunt with a partner and you handle the dog. use a check cord and or Ecollar and make a correction when he breaks. dont give him the bird, let someone else or another dog og get it. If he will do it durring training he knows what you are wanting, he just needs to know it applys all the time....

Ill get on a tell you about my first lab when I have a few minutes.

jIm

In the blind this is good.
But you need to get this done in the yard and then transition to hunting with help. Many times when we are alone it makes it difficult to correct when we have birds on our minds.
When alone, I also would not shoot and let the dog sit there under control and watch the birds.
But you need to gun break the dog to sit. In other words that gun shot means sit still. This is all steadiness in the blind. You can set up canned situations on waters edge, throwing bumpers in air shooting correcting etc till the dog gets it. Then use dead ducks in the same set ups. When the dog sits still then you send him for the retrieve which is his reward for setting still, being steady.

Good luck.

EvanG · Post by **EvanG** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 2:23 pm

Please take a close look at this video clip. Then please realize that the work here is only a snapshot of a much larger, complete program. Then ask yourself, "Does my dog not deserve a good education?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYbFOTzx0Es&feature=plcp

I'll be happy to help.

EvanG

1st timer · Post by **1st timer** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:37 pm

just wanted to say thanks for all of the replys so far from everyone. i worked with my dog today some and had someone help me for the first time. i had a good day with him and think we might have actually made some progress. please keep the sugestions coming because again, this is my first time training a dog and i know its my fault not his that he isnt what i want him to be. i know his potential and will do everything i can for us to reach it.

AzDoggin · Post by **AzDoggin** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 5:29 pm

1st timer wrote:i know its my fault not his that he isnt what i want him to be. i know his potential and will do everything i can for us to reach it.

Hey, as long as you keep that attitude, you WILL get there. Your dog will teach you so much along the way that you'll be Joe Pro before you know it!!! (Hint - the best pros are always open to new learning and are able to adjust to every dog as a new situation)

Good luck!

Kona dawg · Post by **Kona dawg** » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:48 pm

I don't think you should just put a collar on him and shock him when he breaks. He needs to be completely collar conditioned so he know what to do to turn the collar off. You might get lucky and it work but why risk it. Months of training can be lost with seconds on a collar. There is intensity levels, proper fitment, and how he will react. I know you don't want to hear all that but that's how it is.

Dgram36 · Post by **Dgram36** » Sat Nov 24, 2012 6:26 pm

When you trained him did you condition him with denials? Meaning, did you throw out bumpers and make him stay and just walk out yourself and collect 50-75% of them? You basically need to make him understand that not every bird that hits the water is his. Even when you hunt him you should probably deny him retrieves that you can wade out and get yourself. The duck blind might not be the place to train this behavior out, might need to keep it in the yard for a while IMO.

Pamela · Post by **Pamela** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:17 pm

So when you are working in the yard throwing bumpers, are you working with a gun and shouldering like to shoot? Or just making him stay with no gun in hand...... Maybe a dumb question, here.... But seems to me, he associates the gun with a duck and he's too anxious to contain himself.

donnie_19 · Post by **donnie_19** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:23 pm

Need to reinforce the stay command. The duck blind is not the place to train, better to do it in your yard where you control the situation.

birddog1968 · Post by **birddog1968** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:50 pm

Dgram36 wrote:When you trained him did you condition him with denials? Meaning, did you throw out bumpers and make him stay and just walk out yourself and collect 50-75% of them? You basically need to make him understand that not every bird that hits the water is his. Even when you hunt him you should probably deny him retrieves that you can wade out and get yourself. The duck blind might not be the place to train this behavior out, might need to keep it in the yard for a while IMO.

+1

northern cajun · Post by **northern cajun** » Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:22 pm

Dgram36 wrote:When you trained him did you condition him with denials? Meaning, did you throw out bumpers and make him stay and just walk out yourself and collect 50-75% of them? You basically need to make him understand that not every bird that hits the water is his. Even when you hunt him you should probably deny him retrieves that you can wade out and get yourself. The duck blind might not be the place to train this behavior out, might need to keep it in the yard for a while IMO.

yep

Dgram36 · Post by **Dgram36** » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:49 am

On a brighter note, at least your dog has faith that every time you shoulder your gun a bird hits the water. I don't think my shooting has ever inspired that kind of confidence;)

robflash33 · Post by **robflash33** » Fri Nov 08, 2013 1:31 pm

You can't allow him to retriever the duck or dummy every time. I would go back to the basics of staying after you shoot. Don't even throw anything, just shoot or use a pop gun and make him stay. Chain him up and do not allow him to break on you. The sooner he learns that every time a gun shot goes off, he doesn't have to go get something the sooner he will learn to retrieve on your command. After he gets that, then start shooting and throwing a duck or dummy.... Same thing, do not let him go get it every time. Switch on and off until you feel you can control when he retrieves and when he doesn't. I hope this helps and good luck!

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