Pup doesn't appreciate praise?

[jgregg]

I've got a 14 week old german shorthair. When training him, I've run into something that strikes me as pretty different. he doesn't seem to like being petted or praised. When we practice "Here" he comes to me but once he reaches me, darts off to what he was doing before with as little attention paid to me as possible. We never hit him or punish him, but rather use positive reinforcement. He is always excited to see us and gets up from whatever he is doing to greet new people who enter the room, especially me and the family . He just doesn't seem too excited to be praised when we're out doing yard work. I was thinking maybe he is still young and too distracted with his surroundings. Any thoughts? I don't want to reward him with treats everytime, but rather want him to accept my praise as enough reward with an occasional treat thrown in.

[Cajun Casey]

It won't work. Try using a clicker if you want to mark behavior with the ultimate goal of removing the food reward. I would start with HERE.

[AzDoggin]

The father of modern behaviorism, B.F.Skinner, defined a reinforcer as "that which reinforces."

Pups are no different than any other living organism - different things reinforce them. It may be that praise from you will work at some point, but for now, pup has too many other things to discover and explore. Don't worry about it. Later as he matures, he'll discover that good things happen when he pleases you, and your praise will mean something.

If you want to begin teaching here - remove most of the distractions, (maybe even go inside in a hallway) get some high value treats, and get pup coming to you. One game that is fun and works well is "ping pong puppy" in which you get two people sitting 20 feet or so apart - each armed with high value treats. Make sure pup is a little hungry. Clap your hands, make eye contact, use his name and "here" and you'll have him running to each of you in a hurry. Eventually, you'll be able to phase the treats randomly out, and the behavior will continue.

Keep everything fun and everything positive at this point. This is a baby in diapers.

[jgregg]

The father of modern behaviorism, B.F.Skinner, defined a reinforcer as "that which reinforces."

Pups are no different than any other living organism - different things reinforce them. It may be that praise from you will work at some point, but for now, pup has too many other things to discover and explore. Don't worry about it. Later as he matures, he'll discover that good things happen when he pleases you, and your praise will mean something.

If you want to begin teaching here - remove most of the distractions, (maybe even go inside in a hallway) get some high value treats, and get pup coming to you. One game that is fun and works well is "ping pong puppy" in which you get two people sitting 20 feet or so apart - each armed with high value treats. Make sure pup is a little hungry. Clap your hands, make eye contact, use his name and "here" and you'll have him running to each of you in a hurry. Eventually, you'll be able to phase the treats randomly out, and the behavior will continue.

Keep everything fun and everything positive at this point. This is a baby in diapers.

Awesome advice thanks! I'll work on him tonight. So far everything we've been doing has been very low key and low pressure training. Just trying to get the basics instilled in him so they will be easier to master later.

[EvanG]

Good luck with it. This is an area where clicker training may be a breakthrough. Dogs that don't respond to praise are often Alpha's. I sincerely hope that isn't so.

EvanG

[Cajun Casey]

Good luck with it. This is an area where clicker training may be a breakthrough. Dogs that don't respond to praise are often Alpha's. I sincerely hope that isn't so.

EvanG

They can also be soft dogs that can't quite make the connection that praise is for a specific action. I really think treats with a neutral marker will flip the switch for a dog like this.

[snips]

Sometimes I just take these pups and hold them til they relax. They might fight for a bit but start to accept the attn when they know you will not turn loose til u decide the time is right. It is almost force praise.

[ST8 UPPOINTERS]

Sounds like 95% percent of every english pointer ive ever trained! imo these kind of dogs want birds, birds and more birds! Human affection is something they dont crave like most gsp's do. Dont take it personal, but i bet it never changes.

[Sharon]

I've got a 14 week old german shorthair. When training him, I've run into something that strikes me as pretty different. he doesn't seem to like being petted or praised. When we practice "Here" he comes to me but once he reaches me, darts off to what he was doing before with as little attention paid to me as possible. We never hit him or punish him, but rather use positive reinforcement. He is always excited to see us and gets up from whatever he is doing to greet new people who enter the room, especially me and the family . He just doesn't seem too excited to be praised when we're out doing yard work. I was thinking maybe he is still young and too distracted with his surroundings. Any thoughts? I don't want to reward him with treats everytime, but rather want him to accept my praise as enough reward with an occasional treat thrown in.

Maybe I'm old school but consequences are needed to get respect whether it a dog or a teen. I'm not talking about discipline but rather consequences. A dog that gets away with everything , will grow up aloof / self centred. He doesn't need the Master to set the boundaries.

I use clicker training with pups but it is not sufficient. A closeness with your dog requires lots of positive experience but also consequences. jmo

[Stoneface]

Az, I thought Watson was the father of Behaviorism? He would have been the sick, twisted father that beat his kids for fun, but I'd always been told he was the father...

I wouldn't worry too much about it, but I will sa that I don't care much for 100% positive reinforcement. I believe if the dog knows he's doing something wrong and blatantly rejects you, then he needs to have an attitude adjustment. But, I also think if you wouldn't be embarrassed if your neighbors saw you making a fool out of yourself when you loved on your dog, then you're not lovin' him enough.

I believe if the dog sees you as a pack leader and his dominant then he will seek your approval and praise. It's written in their genetic code. But, if all you do is love on them and pop them treats, why would they hold it in high regard? Growing up my mom was never a disciplinarian and always, always said "I love you", like she was afraid I was going to forget. By the time I was a teenager I just kinda patted her on the head and when she gave me a hug or said "I love you", it never really meant much. But, I could count the times my dad's given me a compliment on one hand and I don't even think the word "love" is in his vocabulary. Growing up I killed myself to do whatever I could - in football, in society, anywhere - to get him to pat me on the back or even smile when he found out what I did. His approval was ten times more rewarding than my mom's because he earned my respect and didn't hose me with affection all the time. This examples a little broad, but you get my point.

[Cajun Casey]

Can you get hold of a few pigeons to toss? Yard work for a youngster can be rather tedious and stagnating.

[crackerd]

Good luck with it. This is an area where clicker training may be a breakthrough. Dogs that don't respond to praise are often Alpha's. I sincerely hope that isn't so.

EvanG

They can also be soft dogs that can't quite make the connection that praise is for a specific action. I really think treats with a neutral marker will flip the switch for a dog like this.

Sledge hammer meet gnat - y'all are all overthinking on this one. It's a typical 3-month-old puppy, what does it know or need to know about "appreciating praise" at this age? You can get the pup sitting, heeling and returning (even retrieving to hand) with treats - what's the big deal? A clicker works if conditioned, sure, but can you say "Extra! Extra! No need about it!" And Evan, what's wrong with an alpha? Fun to train and even more fun to work - got three females who lift their legs to pee and the other things they lift with great enthusiasm and regularity even everything out. They don't lift their legs to pee on each other - not all alphas are brawlers or maulers, they just might "unleash" that status on their work.

MG

[phermes1]

He sounds to me like a typical puppy with the attention span of .5 seconds that's always thinking the coolest place to be is always somewhere else.

I tend to agree with Az. I always start with treats. I'd rather them know the command with treats than not know it at all, or take 10 times as long to learn it.

[ezzy333]

So lets see, yoou have a 1 1/2 year old pup in human years. Don't think it is unusal to find a pup or a child at that age that doe not respond as we think they should. But if there is a problem as you progress I find Brenda's method works well normally and it saves you a lot of time and equipment from most other methods. I have the feeling you are pushing the pup too much. Here training canbe accomplished very nicely by just normal times with the pup and calling when you actually need the pup like feeding time or going out time. Those are the rewards tht normally work very well.

JMO

Ezzy

[AzDoggin]

Az, I thought Watson was the father of Behaviorism? He would have been the sick, twisted father that beat his kids for fun, but I'd always been told he was the father...

That's right, Watson was one of the pioneers, but - Burris Frederick (BF) Skinner was the originator of operant conditioning (modern behaviorism) and Pavlov the originator of classical conditioning.

[ultracarry]

A 14 week shorthair puppy is like a 15 year old with ADHD who just took a few hits off a crack pipe.

Only hallway work so the dog can't run off. Don't over praise either. Don't act like a freakin sissy and cover the dam dog dramatically and tell it how good it is. Just a pat on the head or side and send it on its way.

[Stoneface]

That's right, Watson was one of the pioneers, but - Burris Frederick (BF) Skinner was the originator of operant conditioning (modern behaviorism) and Pavlov the originator of classical conditioning.

I stand corrected in your scholastically psychological expertise. Maybe it was a Freudian Slip?

[CHJIII]

That's right, Watson was one of the pioneers, but - Burris Frederick (BF) Skinner was the originator of operant conditioning (modern behaviorism) and Pavlov the originator of classical conditioning.

I stand corrected in your scholastically psychological expertise. Maybe it was a Freudian Slip?

Freud wore a slip? Now that's a whole other topic!

[Cajun Casey]

That's right, Watson was one of the pioneers, but - Burris Frederick (BF) Skinner was the originator of operant conditioning (modern behaviorism) and Pavlov the originator of classical conditioning.

I stand corrected in your scholastically psychological expertise. Maybe it was a Freudian Slip?

Freud wore a slip? Now that's a whole other topic!

Freudian slip: When you say one thing, but mean your mother.......

[AzDoggin]

That's right, Watson was one of the pioneers, but - Burris Frederick (BF) Skinner was the originator of operant conditioning (modern behaviorism) and Pavlov the originator of classical conditioning.

I stand corrected in your scholastically psychological expertise. Maybe it was a Freudian Slip?

Freud prolly did wear a slip- I always did wonder about that dude.

Stoneface, that was just one example useless information gleaned from too many years in grad school. Other than allowing me to retire after 30+ years of underemployment, the over-education never did serve a purpose - so glad to be of service, finally!!