Concern for not releasing a bird.

[ekoog82]

My son found the novice toy I setup for our dog when I first got him of the wing on a string. My dog ended up getting it before my son could get it from him and he did not want to let go. I tried everything I knew to get him to release the wing but he would not budge. This concerned me as I dont know what he will do once I put a real bird in his mouth. Do you think that if I start with a frozen bird he would be more inclined to drop it? Any advise is greatly appreciated.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

When he don't release a bird,dummy,wing,take a hold of the object with one hand,reach around to his flank ( the skin beneath his loin ) lift up on that & give your release command,Every dog I have tried this on has released wit that little trick.I'm not the only one that uses this trick but it works.After enough repitions the release command should be enough.Don't ask me why it works!!

Good Luck!!

[Sharon]

My son found the novice toy I setup for our dog when I first got him of the wing on a string. My dog ended up getting it before my son could get it from him and he did not want to let go. I tried everything I knew to get him to release the wing but he would not budge. This concerned me as I dont know what he will do once I put a real bird in his mouth. Do you think that if I start with a frozen bird he would be more inclined to drop it? Any advise is greatly appreciated.

I wouldn't be worried. I'd be thrilled that my pup had that kind of passion for a bird. The advice above works fine.

edit: spelling

[4dabirds]

Assuming the dog is a puppy the previous advise is good. You need to take into consideration that every item your dog picks up he probably has either been allowed to play with or it has been taken away. By ending the behavior with the dog losing the item the dog is not motivated to give it up.Allowing the dog to have an item and give it for a reward, which could be just playing a game with the item, the dogs motivation changes. The dog wants to give it up so it can play fetch or hide and seek for the item again. This type of behavior can also be seen in food guarding so if the dog has this inclination you should be handling the dogs food after you give it to him. Make it fun for the dog so he gets used to you handling the food and it should always end with the dog getting the food. If a dog is food guarding you can slowly diminish this behavior by reaching for the dogs dish . When the dog responds throw some more food in the dish. This way the dog learns that you are not a threat to his resource. Also limit the wing on a string to a few times it serves no real purpose in training even if its fun to watch.

[ezzy333]

Assuming the dog is a puppy the previous advise is good. You need to take into consideration that every item your dog picks up he probably has either been allowed to play with or it has been taken away. By ending the behavior with the dog losing the item the dog is not motivated to give it up.Allowing the dog to have an item and give it for a reward, which could be just playing a game with the item, the dogs motivation changes. The dog wants to give it up so it can play fetch or hide and seek for the item again. This type of behavior can also be seen in food guarding so if the dog has this inclination you should be handling the dogs food after you give it to him. Make it fun for the dog so he gets used to you handling the food and it should always end with the dog getting the food. If a dog is food guarding you can slowly diminish this behavior by reaching for the dogs dish . When the dog responds throw some more food in the dish. This way the dog learns that you are not a threat to his resource.

This only works after the dog has bitten your hand a half dozen times. :roll:

Ezzy

[4dabirds]

This only works after the dog has bitten your hand a half dozen times. :roll:

Ezzy

So let me get this straight in your experience the dog bit you a half dozen times before you dropped the food in the dish. I always drop the food in the dish before he bites.

[ezzy333]

This only works after the dog has bitten your hand a half dozen times. :roll:

Ezzy

So let me get this straight in your experience the dog bit you a half dozen times before you dropped the food in the dish. I always drop the food in the dish before he bites.

To tell you the truth I don't do either. If the dog is possessive I just take whatever away from him a few times and then give it back. That is the onlyreward the dog gets for bad behavior to begin with. It will learn with just a few reminders that it is not the pack leader and will get punished for acting like one. Plus it gets the object back anyway so why fight it.

Ezzy

[ekoog82]

well it happened....took him out on some training quail today and he was able to get a hold of one and would not release it. I tried everything I could think of at the time which was pressure by his hips, his gums in teeth, and trying to put my fingers towards the socket of his jaw to pry it open. No of this worked, I had to literally pry top and bottom towards the front to get him to release. This happened twice and both times same thing. The first quail he ended up killing with the pressure, the second I was able to save in time. Do you think if I work him on a frozen bird it will teach him to release? We have never had an issue with his toys or bumpers getting him to release but with the birds he is possessive.


On a side noted this was his first time on live birds and did an amazing job putting his nose to the ground to find them. One that I Planted I thought was lost but he ended up finding it. I am definitely ready to go back out this week and get some more quail provided he does better with his release.

I also seen the need for a launcher today so that will be one of my near future purchases.

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Did you try what I suggested above??

[ekoog82]

Did you try what I suggested above??

I thought I was doing that by squeezing or putting pressure there?? Was that not what I should do?

[Vonzeppelinkennels]

Take hold of the skin between his hind quarters & stomach & lift up,they will normally spit out what ever there holding & look around to your hand.

[ekoog82]

Take hold of the skin between his hind quarters & stomach & lift up,they will normally spit out what ever there holding & look around to your hand.

ok, ill try that this week. going to work on retrieving with the frozen bird which im sure he will try to keep.

[4dabirds]

Ezzy by giving the dog back the item you are doing basically what I said. You are extinguishing the behavior by teaching the dog that you are not taking the dogs resource away.

Take hold of the skin between his hind quarters & stomach & lift up,they will normally spit out what ever there holding & look around to your hand.

ok, ill try that this week. going to work on retrieving with the frozen bird which im sure he will try to keep.

+ 1 on this

[RoostersMom]

Question: Are you calling the dog to you, or reeling him in.... and then grabbing the bird immediately? If so, I would suggest you let him parade around with the bird in his mouth (as long as he's not trying to eat it) and pet him and praise him for a while with the bird in his mouth. Then, after sufficient time has passed, try the flanking method described above. Grab his skin by his back leg and behind the ribs (underneath) and lift his back end off the ground if he won't drop the bird. Many dogs don't want to release such a cool prize. If all else fails, I would try throwing another bird out for him so he has to drop the first one to retrieve the second one - but that's a last ditch effort.

[ekoog82]

Question: Are you calling the dog to you, or reeling him in.... and then grabbing the bird immediately? If so, I would suggest you let him parade around with the bird in his mouth (as long as he's not trying to eat it) and pet him and praise him for a while with the bird in his mouth. Then, after sufficient time has passed, try the flanking method described above. Grab his skin by his back leg and behind the ribs (underneath) and lift his back end off the ground if he won't drop the bird. Many dogs don't want to release such a cool prize. If all else fails, I would try throwing another bird out for him so he has to drop the first one to retrieve the second one - but that's a last ditch effort.

In this case the birds he had were live and I reeled him in so that he would not chew on or kill the birds (was going to replant). Should I be concerned if he chews or kills or just let him have at it? in this case I dont think he would chew as much as bite down on the bird which resulted in unnecessarily killing before I was done training.

[Sharon]

From what I've read he is chasing and grabbing birds. Quail are easy to catch. He should only be working on hard flying pigeon in my opinion. If he's not holding his point he needs to be on a checkcord.Do whatever you need to do to stop this grabbing of birds.

[ekoog82]

From what I've read he is chasing and grabbing birds. Quail are easy to catch. He should only be working on hard flying pigeon in my opinion. If he's not holding his point he needs to be on a checkcord.Do whatever you need to do to stop this grabbing of birds.

I had him in a check cord but let him run the bird after flight to see he can't catch them.... Little was I wrong. I am new to bird dog training Nd did nit know quail were a short low flying bird (newb mistake). I do not know of a local place to get birds and it is easy to get the quail for me at the reserve I train him at. Do you thunk if I used a launcher it would make it more difficult for him or will I still have the same issue? Also, I had the check cord and as long as I could keep the pressure on it he would hold. It was not until I would come up and flush the bird out thT he would
Bust in on it

[ezzy333]

When you are by yourself carry a good stake so when the dog points place the stake in the ground behind the dog and then wrap your CC around it so when you walk in to the bird you will have it looped over the stake . This will keep the dog from moving forward and you can still flush the bird and keep the dog under control at the same time.

Ezzy

[Sharon]

From what I've read he is chasing and grabbing birds. Quail are easy to catch. He should only be working on hard flying pigeon in my opinion. If he's not holding his point he needs to be on a checkcord.Do whatever you need to do to stop this grabbing of birds.

I had him in a check cord but let him run the bird after flight to see he can't catch them.... Little was I wrong. I am new to bird dog training Nd did nit know quail were a short low flying bird (newb mistake). I do not know of a local place to get birds and it is easy to get the quail for me at the reserve I train him at. Do you thunk if I used a launcher it would make it more difficult for him or will I still have the same issue? Also, I had the check cord and as long as I could keep the pressure on it he would hold. It was not until I would come up and flush the bird out that he would bust in on it

ekoog82

I understand. In my experience a launcher does not help a bird to fly harder and faster. In fact a dead beat quail can go straight up and straight down. I don't think anything replaces a pigeon for a hard flying bird.See Ezzy's comment on using a stake .

[ekoog82]

From what I've read he is chasing and grabbing birds. Quail are easy to catch. He should only be working on hard flying pigeon in my opinion. If he's not holding his point he needs to be on a checkcord.Do whatever you need to do to stop this grabbing of birds.

I had him in a check cord but let him run the bird after flight to see he can't catch them.... Little was I wrong. I am new to bird dog training Nd did nit know quail were a short low flying bird (newb mistake). I do not know of a local place to get birds and it is easy to get the quail for me at the reserve I train him at. Do you thunk if I used a launcher it would make it more difficult for him or will I still have the same issue? Also, I had the check cord and as long as I could keep the pressure on it he would hold. It was not until I would come up and flush the bird out that he would bust in on it

ekoog82

I understand. In my experience a launcher does not help a bird to fly harder and faster. In fact a dead beat quail can go straight up and straight down. I don't think anything replaces a pigeon for a hard flying bird.See Ezzy's comment on using a stake .

I will definitely take Ezzys and everyone elses advice in consideration. I honestly have to say I never thought about the steak and wraping the CC around it. Now I have to find a good steak.

[jimbo&rooster]

Ok my advice has little to do with the problem, but somthing else you said.

You stated that you were trying to get the birds back alive so that you could replant them..... My limited experience with pen raised quail has been that if you replant a bird that has been caught the dog is going to catch it again. thaey are fairly fragile birds. I know birds are expensive and sometimes hard to come by, but sometimes your better to wring their kneck and put them in your pocket, especially if youve had to wrestle to get them back. I was trying to replant caught birds when i started my pup and it resulted in more caught birds and a series of bad habits.

Not trying to derail the post just another thought

Jim

[northern cajun]

When he don't release a bird,dummy,wing,take a hold of the object with one hand,reach around to his flank ( the skin beneath his loin ) lift up on that & give your release command,Every dog I have tried this on has released wit that little trick.I'm not the only one that uses this trick but it works.After enough repitions the release command should be enough.Don't ask me why it works!!

Good Luck!!

+2

[ekoog82]

Ok my advice has little to do with the problem, but somthing else you said.

You stated that you were trying to get the birds back alive so that you could replant them..... My limited experience with pen raised quail has been that if you replant a bird that has been caught the dog is going to catch it again. thaey are fairly fragile birds. I know birds are expensive and sometimes hard to come by, but sometimes your better to wring their kneck and put them in your pocket, especially if youve had to wrestle to get them back. I was trying to replant caught birds when i started my pup and it resulted in more caught birds and a series of bad habits.

Not trying to derail the post just another thought

Jim

Good point..... I think what I was implying was allowing the bird to take flight and go else where but watch the area it went then bring the dog back to it later. I def did not want to replant the bird he caught but also did not want him to kill it unnecessarilly. I have hunted mostly pheasant and just found out how quail are. I will be looking for pigeons as there is a guy in the area that I think sells them for about what I pay for quail.