So I have a very strong willed GSP about 20 months old. She doesn't give to the leash very well. Tried the Wonder lead, Spike collar but no good. Gentle leader works but she just tries to rub it off the whole time. So after reviewing some videos I think she would benefit from some time on the chain gang. My question is can you get the same results from a regular stake out as you would get from the full chain gang being that I only have one dog?
Any thoughts are appreciated.
Chain gang or stake out
Re: Chain gang or stake out
The way it was put to me is that the chain gang stimulates the dog where the stake out does not. Every time a dog moves on the chain, it stimulates the other dogs and relaxes them.
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kninebirddog
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Re: Chain gang or stake out
You need to find someone to show you How to make the leads work...they do not magically make a dog behave they only Help you make those corrections provided you learn how to use them properly and when to and how to change directions and correct the dog before they brace against what ever you have then in and then take control. Sorry there is no candy coated way to say it is You that needs to learn how to use the tools ..They all work provided they are used in the manner they are designed to be used.
As for chain gang or stake out I prefer the chain gang with an 18 inch drop ...When I have my dog chained it isn't about giving them room to spin around wasting energy it is about lay there conserve energy chill out and a place to start and finish a session no matter what that session was about.
But no matter what..until you change with walking with him he will continue to resort to pulling and leading the way.
If you post where you are from maybe someone in your area can help you get control of your dog and show you the missing piece of the puzzle to getting that control
As for chain gang or stake out I prefer the chain gang with an 18 inch drop ...When I have my dog chained it isn't about giving them room to spin around wasting energy it is about lay there conserve energy chill out and a place to start and finish a session no matter what that session was about.
But no matter what..until you change with walking with him he will continue to resort to pulling and leading the way.
If you post where you are from maybe someone in your area can help you get control of your dog and show you the missing piece of the puzzle to getting that control
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"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.
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RayGubernat
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Re: Chain gang or stake out
I believe you will get some benefit from a dog on a stakeout.
It is a different thing from the chaingang, but being on a stakeout while you are doing stuff will definitely teach the dog to give to the collar paressure and, eventually, to lie down, relax and wait for you.
For your purpose, putting the dog out on a stakeout should help...not as quickly as a chaingang perhaps ...but you do the best you can with what you got.
Get hold of a copy of the Koehler method book. It is a book on training guard dogs and such. It goes into some depth on teaching a dog to heel and doing it crisply and with instant response....which is what you MUST have for an attack dog. You absolutely MUST have complete control over such a dog. It uses a choker collar to enforce the commands. All I will say is...It works.
RayG
It is a different thing from the chaingang, but being on a stakeout while you are doing stuff will definitely teach the dog to give to the collar paressure and, eventually, to lie down, relax and wait for you.
For your purpose, putting the dog out on a stakeout should help...not as quickly as a chaingang perhaps ...but you do the best you can with what you got.
Get hold of a copy of the Koehler method book. It is a book on training guard dogs and such. It goes into some depth on teaching a dog to heel and doing it crisply and with instant response....which is what you MUST have for an attack dog. You absolutely MUST have complete control over such a dog. It uses a choker collar to enforce the commands. All I will say is...It works.
RayG
Re: Chain gang or stake out
I remember Rick Smith saying that dogs on a chain is great for a dog - aggressive dog.
The dog cant reach the other dog beside him but the owner can discipline his dog - even by a body tackle. I wouldnt do this but I watched him effectively do it. When a dog is aggressive you have to do what you have to do.
It is also very effective for a dog that barks for you all the time.
The dog cant reach the other dog beside him but the owner can discipline his dog - even by a body tackle. I wouldnt do this but I watched him effectively do it. When a dog is aggressive you have to do what you have to do.
It is also very effective for a dog that barks for you all the time.
" We are more than our gender, skin color, class, sexuality or age; we are unlimited potential, and can not be defined by one label." quote A. Bartlett
Re: Chain gang or stake out
I have an extra copy of the "Koehler Method of Dog Training" if someone is interested. It works well for heel and some basic commands. Just not my favorite for birddogs.RayGubernat wrote:I believe you will get some benefit from a dog on a stakeout.
It is a different thing from the chaingang, but being on a stakeout while you are doing stuff will definitely teach the dog to give to the collar paressure and, eventually, to lie down, relax and wait for you.
For your purpose, putting the dog out on a stakeout should help...not as quickly as a chaingang perhaps ...but you do the best you can with what you got.
Get hold of a copy of the Koehler method book. It is a book on training guard dogs and such. It goes into some depth on teaching a dog to heel and doing it crisply and with instant response....which is what you MUST have for an attack dog. You absolutely MUST have complete control over such a dog. It uses a choker collar to enforce the commands. All I will say is...It works.
RayG
Nitrex
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pointshootretrieve
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Re: Chain gang or stake out
Those stakeouts will let the dog run around in a circle acting like a fool if and when he wants. If you are trying to straighten out heel make the dog stand at your side w/o moving stepping on you, leaning on you etc. Then you can walk with his head at your knee 1 step at a time if he gets forward stop and pop the lead repeatedly until he backs up to your knee, do not give to him by making a step to catch up. Make turns gradual at first then abrupt, walk, creep, jog, run, stop, repeat your dog should be right there with your knee.
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Retiredbirddogman
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Re: Chain gang or stake out
I like a chain gang if you have other dogs available to put on it. The dog learns to give to the chain as the other dogs move around. Beats them learning at the end of my lead. I also use a flank hitch when starting the dog walking with me. They are much less inclined to pull and are more responsive. I took my GWP pup on a run with me this morning, 2 miles, and I have not fully taught her to heal yet. By the end of a mile she wasn't needing much correction. Like others said, I slowed down, speeded up, turning into her, away from her etc. Extra work for me but she learned something and we both got our exersize for the day.
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birddog1968
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Re: Chain gang or stake out
Ive always just tied the labs off to a tree to let them learn to give to their neck.....
The second kick from a mule is of very little educational value - from Wing and Shot.
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New to This
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Re: Chain gang or stake out
Thanks for everyones reply. This forum is a great way to benefit from each others experience.
First, you're right, the issue is me. I have been working on my methods quite a bit lately and I am seeing some improvement. When I posted I was just thinking about the Delmar / Rick Smith stuff where they say the best way for a dog to learn is for her to teach herself, and have her direct her frustration toward an inanimate object and not toward you. So I was hoping to combine both methods for better results. I believe the consensus here is that a chain gang would be better and quicker but a stake out will do the job. To be honest it comes down to the money. I have a stake out but building a chain gang would cost another 75+ dollars. I feel and think you all agree that it is not that much better. Anyone disagree?
First, you're right, the issue is me. I have been working on my methods quite a bit lately and I am seeing some improvement. When I posted I was just thinking about the Delmar / Rick Smith stuff where they say the best way for a dog to learn is for her to teach herself, and have her direct her frustration toward an inanimate object and not toward you. So I was hoping to combine both methods for better results. I believe the consensus here is that a chain gang would be better and quicker but a stake out will do the job. To be honest it comes down to the money. I have a stake out but building a chain gang would cost another 75+ dollars. I feel and think you all agree that it is not that much better. Anyone disagree?
Re: Chain gang or stake out
Both the chain gang and the stake out serve their seperate purposes. If you are frugal, you already have one stake and drop, for less than $10 you should be able to build a one or two dog chain gang? You can always add on later.
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gittrdonebritts
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Re: Chain gang or stake out
All of the equipment you mentioned (prong collar, gentle leader, Wonder lead) all work great if you know how to properly use them and then put them away when they have served the purpose ie helping train the dog then going back to a regular collar, I see older dogs all day in prong collars leaders and chockers that still have no clue how to walk nicely because the owner put the training aid on and didn't know how to use it then move away from it the dog ends up wearing it there entire life and usually they blame the dog or the equipment. educate yourself as much as possible the chain gang or tie out won't be any more effective than the others if your not doing the right things.
