Only comes when he wants to? Other stubborn behaviors!

djswizz · Post by **djswizz** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:18 pm

Guinness is starting to tick me off. He'll come only when he wants to now. If I am formally out in the yard and I tell him whoa, he'll whoa and then come to me no problem. But sometimes he won't come when he is out in the yard doing his duty and I call him in, he won't. I'm thinking that the reward I am giving him is not enough. I give him a 'good boy!' and pet him and then give him a treat (sometimes).

Another problem I have with him is that he grabs things off tables, my clothes, ANYTHING, and runs away. My trainer told me not to chase him but I have to to get away what he has in his mouth (and sometimes he has SUPER expensive items he CANNOT break or I'll be screwed). He does this for attention I believe. But this behavior is really ticking me off because he knows better. I'm going to have to start using the ecollar more frequently if this keeps up. Let me know what your thoughts are on this...

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 3:46 pm

Guinness is four months. no ecollar at all at 4 months. just tell him NO, and OFF the counter. they don't learn overnight.

does your two year old kid come when called? usually they run the other way. i have a two year old grand son right now, guess which way he goes half the time. so we work on it with him, but no hurting. patience.

any time you find yourself training a dog in anger, it is time to put the dog up and cool off. then come back when you have a rational lesson plan established.

alot of us want them to be independent hunters and so we do not put heavy obedience on them at 4 months. if you want a regimen of obedience at this age, then talk to Margaret, she can tell you what to do.

djswizz · Post by **djswizz** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 5:30 pm

Wagon,

Guinness is not 4 months. I'm not sure how you got that number...

He is 1 years old tomorrow. The problems I am having should be gone by now don't you think?

tailcrackin · Post by **tailcrackin** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:35 pm

Sounds like he came home to soon, and or did not get to stay long enough.

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 6:41 pm

Tailcracken, you lost me again with the last post. What do you mean? Do you think they got him to young?

Ezzy

Post by **Ayres** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:21 pm

I think Jonesy meant "came home from the trainer's," though I'm not sure Guiness was ever "sent" to the trainer.

At this point you just have to train yourself. If you're giving a command that you cannot enforce via e-collar or checkcord or any other method, and your dog blows you off, then you're only teaching him that he can. If he's out doing his business and you want him to come to you immediately, strap on a checkcord or e-collar so that when you give him the command you can stimulate compliance.

Of course I'm thinking that the dog already knows the command down pat and is just choosing to blow you off.

Justus used to do this not long after we moved into our house. There was just too much outside to sniff around at. So, we put the e-collar on every time we let him out. Didn't really have to use it much, only if he decided he was going to blow off the "here" command. And if I forgot to put on the collar or the checkcord, I did not give the command. I just bit my tongue and went out to him and grabbed his collar, never giving him the opportunity to think that he can get away with non-compliance. Now if he's outside he can be sniffing up a tree and preoccupied out of his mind. If he's doing that and I call his name, he won't even look over. But if I say "here" he drops whatever he was doing and trots over to me immediately. We've gotten to the point where I can let him outside our house without a checkcord or an e-collar, but that's because he's been so compliant he's earned that level of trust from me.

Post by **Ayres** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:27 pm

About the grabbing things ... just gotta puppy-proof the place really. There's no quick fix to that. A dog that gets bored will find their way into mischief.

Justus usually gets into the closet and grabs a house slipper or one of my wife's hair ties. I take it as an opportunity to train. I tell him to come to me (which he does every time, see above) and if he drops the item before he gets to me I make him go back and pick it up and bring it to me. Then, praise & petting and I keep the item. Usually after that he leaves things alone.

Until your dog gets to the point that you absolutely know he will comply with the here command, you'll need a partner to catch him. Take the item from his mouth and give him a swat on the rear. Some folks will say that you shouldn't reprimand a dog after they've given up the item like that because then they think they're not supposed to give it up, but if Guiness is like my dog then he knows exactly what that swat on the rear was for.

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:54 pm

Get some mouse traps and set him up on the counter surfing.. He gets nailed a couple of times and he will stop that stuff.. It works and you don't have keep your eyes on him all the time when using this way of training. The ecollar used just right will also cure counter surfing. If you decide to use the ecollar don't say anything to the dog when you use it.

Mo

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 9:19 pm

Enrol in a basic obedience course. Your dog is shrugging you off.

tailcrackin · Post by **tailcrackin** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 5:47 am

In the second sentence second paragraph, says that his trainer says.......Well he should be spending more time and asking why the dog is doing what it wants to, why the trainer is allowing any question in the clients mind as to what and why, I dont know. I know personally several trainers that will ask at the end of the day, if there are any questions, do you understand what and why?? If there is a question, we all explain, so the client understands. Need to put forth the faith in the trainer, he or she should be the one discussing the dogs problems with their client, not the forum, that to me is how alot of nice dogs get boogered up. Trainer saying one thing as to his, or her work, forum saying 20-30 different things. I am mainly talking the dog work in the field. He should have never left the trainers side if he had any unsurity as to how to enforce the days teachings.

djswizz · Post by **djswizz** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:03 am

Guinness was never sent to the trainer yet. We've only done a few informal sessions to see how Guinness performs. That is what i meant by that.

As far as the commands when he is outside, I'm going to have to be a little more strict on the enforcement. Ayres, thanks for the reply. From now on, I will not give the command if I can't enforce it. The problem though is that he KNOWS the command VERY well, but just decides to not come anyway. I'm going to have to work on this...

About puppy-proofing the place, it's almost imossible. He WILL eventually get something like any dog would. But I will try harder with it. The problem I have is that if he has the item in his mouth, he'll run away and think I am playing. He knows he is not supposed to have what he has because he does not run away when he has things that I have approved of (like a bone, kong etc.) I give him the here command but he shrugs it off. I don't want to issue the here command and THEN give him a tug on the gruff of his neck. He will then associate a here command with a bad neck grabbing. So I am thinking my ecollar is the best option still.

Thanks for posts everyone. I'll be bringing him to the dog obedience class soon.

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:46 am

sorry for the confusion about his age. there is another thread, "Biting Puppy, 4 Months" that has been going on, that dog is named Guinness, and I did not notice the two owners were different. So we have two different Guinness's. Which is ok, cause there can't be too much Guinness in the world.

i was having cranky thoughts about someone who would put a collar on a four month old pup. and also wondering what kind of breeding that was that a four month pup could get up on the table or counter.

yes, obedience class. expect to have to work on this for awhile though. they generally are mischievous, and don't start to settle down, until about 2 1/2.

markj · Post by **markj** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:31 am

cause there can't be too much Guinness in the world

The way this week has been going, I am ready for one now

Anyone else?

TGIF

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:24 am

I don't think one is enough

djswizz · Post by **djswizz** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:25 am

Hey we could all get a lap dog and not worry about this... what do you say?

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 11:32 am

ok, as long as he comes with a six pack of Guinness.

GSP4619 · Post by **GSP4619** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:16 pm

OMG mouse traps Your kidding right????

Post by **Ayres** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:42 pm

djswizz wrote:Hey we could all get a lap dog and not worry about this... what do you say?

My 53 lb. vizsla thinks he's a lap dog sometimes. Ever been pinned down in an easy chair with a deadweight dog on your chest?

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:49 pm

GSP 4619

I don't think he was kidding. If you are lucky enough to have it snap on the dog it will tend to make it stop getting up but usually the dog doesn't get snapped so its just the noise that you hope startles it enough. Either way, hopefully the pup gets the message in a way that can't hurt the pup.

Ezzy

Post by **Ayres** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 12:59 pm

Note that he said "mouse" traps too, not rat traps. Contrary to warnings my grandparents gave me that a mousetrap will "snap your finger clear off" it just won't happen. It'll sting like crazy, but snapped on anything with any bone structure at all the harm is only superficial.

GSP4619 · Post by **GSP4619** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:13 pm

LOL ok I am taking your word for it.

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 2:24 pm

No I was not kidding about the mouse traps, done right it will get the job done..

Mo