Starting an older green pup

[hpvizslas]

Curious about opinions on how to start a 14 month old dog that has not had much of an introduction to birds. Was talking with a guy who suggested putting the dog on a barrell and teaching whoa before ever putting any birds out, seems like a strange way to me. This is not a boxer but a dog that should have the breeding behind it to be a bird dog. To me it would make more sense to see if the natural instincts are there before using this method to "teach" it to point. What are your thoughts?

Thanks
Jeff

[bwire]

I don't think a 14 month old dog is that old to start with. I would treat him like any other young dog and do what you would normaly do. Proper introduction to different types of cover, gun intro, into to birds and working on basic commands. That's just my thought. I'm sure there are others who have a lot more experience than me and some first hand experience on this topic.

[kninebirddog]

I would start off exposing just like a pup build the field expose to birds build the drive . You can do yard work but until you have the drive and desire built up don't worry to much about drilling real training yet..Hard to steer a parked car
Let the dog indicate where it is ready to start to become polished

[RaiderArch]

I'm very new to the gun dog training world, so take my advice for whatever you think it is worth, but my position is very similar to yours. I have a 16 month old Weim who had never even sight pointed a bird at the park when I decided to start training him. I posted the question here on GDF a few weeks ago asking "Can you teach a dog to point?" and the overwhelming response that I got was that the dog really teaches himself to point when you get him around birds. I haven't even been able to find a suitable time & place to introduce him to live birds yet and have only been working with pheasant wings, but already we've made great strides. I've started playing 'wing on a string' with him just to get his interest up and he's already started to figure out that he can't ever catch the wing while frantically chasing it, and he's started sight pointing it. I try to encourage him when he does this and steady him with a 'Whoa.'

All of that to say that just based on my limited experience, getting him around birds should be your main focus and work on all the other stuff in the meantime.

[kninebirddog]

I'm very new to the gun dog training world, so take my advice for whatever you think it is worth, but my position is very similar to yours. I have a 16 month old Weim who had never even sight pointed a bird at the park when I decided to start training him. I posted the question here on GDF a few weeks ago asking "Can you teach a dog to point?" and the overwhelming response that I got was that the dog really teaches himself to point when you get him around birds. I haven't even been able to find a suitable time & place to introduce him to live birds yet and have only been working with pheasant wings, but already we've made great strides. I've started playing 'wing on a string' with him just to get his interest up and he's already started to figure out that he can't ever catch the wing while frantically chasing it, and he's started sight pointing it. I try to encourage him when he does this and steady him with a 'Whoa.'

All of that to say that just based on my limited experience, getting him around birds should be your main focus and work on all the other stuff in the meantime.

Your dog is sight pointing and wing or even a rag on a string is a cute game but when you get your dog on birds be sure you have some good flyers and do not try and whoa him on the scent when he begins to figure it out. let him figure out that trying to sight point the scent of a real bird has the same result he can't catch it..I watch people quite a bit play the string game so much and then try when the dog starts to figure out real birds and wants to crowd them until they see what they are smelling which is now a real bird the owner is commanding whoa whoa whoa whoa which distracts the young dog and if you have a real unsure/compliant young dog may even distract them off the the bird.

So just saying get good flyers and let the dog figure out for themselves that they need to use their nose not their eyes

[RayGubernat]

A lot of "how best to proceed" depends a very great deal on the dog.

The person who suggested barrel work to you was giving you one option. Working a dog in the yard, without birds is a perfectly acceptable way to proceed. However, it need not be an either/or scenario. There is absolutely no reason why you cannot do both fun introductions to birds in the field AND yardwork at the same time. There are plenty of reasons why you should.

I work all my pups in the yard starting with Heel/Whoa drills and styling the dog up on a bench. The heel /whoa is done in the yard without birds and is done to ingrain the whoa command...as an obedience command...into the dog's head. The bench styuling work is done in the yard, again without birds, to get the dog used to standing there, quietly and getting rewarded, with stroking, for doing just.

I have found that when the dog exhibits the desire to stand still either on the bench or on the ground, the process of steadying the dog to wing and shot... goes fairly smoothly. The willingness to stand still in the yard seems to transfer over to the field work fairly well.

The other HUGE advantage of doing the yard work is that the dog knows and understands that "WHOA" means stop instantly and grow roots...RIGHT NOW! It is a matter of obedience and has absolutely nothing to do with birds. If the dog breaks and chases a bird, you can command whoa and if the dog does not stop you can administer a correction, either via checkcord, prong, pinch or flat collar or e-collar. You are disciplining the dog...not for breaking and chasing...but for disobeying an obedience command.

There is much less of a chance for a negative carryover towards birds in the dog's mind if the command is introduced in the yard, enforced in the yard and is understood by the dog as an obedience command having nothing to do with birds.

Eventually the two concepts will blend together in the dog's mind, but Whoa should always remain, and be both enforced and reinfirced as an obedience command.

I hope some of this helps.

RayG

[birddogger]

by RayGubernat » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:48 pm

A lot of "how best to proceed" depends a very great deal on the dog.

The person who suggested barrel work to you was giving you one option. Working a dog in the yard, without birds is a perfectly acceptable way to proceed. However, it need not be an either/or scenario. There is absolutely no reason why you cannot do both fun introductions to birds in the field AND yardwork at the same time. There are plenty of reasons why you should.

There are so many methods of training that it can be over whelming for somebody new to the sport, but I am also in this school of thought. I has always worked well for me.

Charlie

[Sprig]

i have trained many older dogs with no bird experience for clients and the very first thing you need to do is get that dog on as many birds as you can to find what instinct it has in it. whoa training isnt even on the table yet. i would put that dog on as many pigeons as possible for the next few weeks, or month or more and let the natural instinct come out and see what you have to work with. birds birds birds.....