How to play nicely

Post by **Ayres** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 12:35 pm

So Justus is 12 weeks old now and he's becomming a real butt-head.

When we're playing with him to relieve his bundles of energy, he's now started jumping and nipping at our faces and hands. He's still got his little sharp puppy teeth too, so it hurts like crazy!

What are some quick and effective ways to stop this sort of behavior? We say "no!" like usual, and even take time outs with him in his kennel, but it's hard to get his attention when he's so wound up and wired. This is our first puppy, so we're at a total loss for any way to calm him down and keep him from being so overly rambunctious and hazardous when he's playing like this.

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 1:56 pm

I don't mind a puppy mouth playing, afterall if you watch two puppies play there's lots of it. I do assume the alpha however and when it gets to a level i'm uncomfortable with I will reach over the muzzle with thumb and fore finger pinching the cheeks against the canines and say NO or even bang the bridge of the nose with my extended fore finger and again NO, firmly. If it gets compltely out of control the grabbing them by the nape of the neck and again NO sometimes even with a little shake, and a toss in the box if it's completely off the scale.

I'm not a fan of the pushing them down to the ground and holding them flat until they "submit". I don't want a dog caving in or cowering, just giving to my alpha status. CR

Post by **grant** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:36 pm

Wow! This is the same thing we are dealing with! I could hang some Christmas ornaments from my nose and ears where our pup is latching on!

I've heard that putting them in their crates as punishment could have a negative effect on the crate training process....?????

Just a thought...

On my first pup, I would spank etc.... , with bell, I wanted to spank less, and I did, but when they latch on to an eyebrow, it can tick you off for a second. With the new pup, I'm just making sure I'm not giving him an incentive to bite me, like pushing and playing too hard with my hands. Instead, when we play or he bites I say no, and make sure I have a toy to stick in his mouth. I don't think he wants to become a piercing specialist, but just wants to play...

Still to soon to tell, but I'll let everyone know how its going...

Ayres, I feel your PAIN!

:roll: :roll:

sudiegirl · Post by **sudiegirl** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:37 pm

i also think that holding the muzzle firmly (but not hurting him) and saying no is a very good start. additionally, this may be as far as you ever have to go. (which would be great!) but i also dont see a problem with pinning a puppy down on his back and "making him submit" as long as you are calm but firm in doing so if the muzzle holding alone is not doing the trick. i dont think that you should yell or try to freak him out while doing it either. i think it also depends on how out of hand the puppy is, how bad the problem is that you are addressing, and if he is a bold puppy to begin with as to whether or not you should use that method. as with all training methods, i think there is a time and a place for everything.

dhondtm · Post by **dhondtm** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 2:47 pm

You're being faced with two issues. The jumping up and the biting. For the most part the jumping up can be broken by lifting your knee into the dogs chest as they jump into you and I usually turn away as well and give the "down" or "off" command. I like to use "off" (for furniture and people, because I use down for lay down) But since you have just a puppy your probably meaning it is jumping on you while your kneeling or squatted down and playing with the puppy. Get up and turn your back on your puppy when this behavior begins. The reward for the puppy is getting to play with you. Nothing is worse for the puppy then for you to stop playing with it.

Training Bite Inhibition
Practice several times for 3-4 weeks. (Best for pups up to 12 weeks of age but if you never have done bite inhibition exercises, this step can be used for older pups that have varied mouthing pressure) Allow your pup to mouth/playbite. When he exerts slightly more pressure than usual, say "Ouch!" just loud enough that he stops in surprise, and immediately stop playing for a few seconds. Now allow him to mouth again and repeat the "Ouch!" and stop playing several times until he ONLY mouths softly. If your pup is not responding to the "Ouch!", simply skip it and just stop playing and/or get up and move away for a minute, then start again. Your pup will quickly learn that fun ends when he mouths too hard.

Also, a few things about the "NO!" command. I try very hard not to use No <name>. As hard as it is I believe in not saying the puppies name to closely to the word No. (I read once that you do not want to associate negative ness to there name, so I have stuck with that) Most importantly this helped myself focus on another good habit and that was to always associate the command No with another word. I might use "No Biting!" for instance, but if you practice the bite inhibition technique above you shouldn't have to. More commonly I use "No chewing!" If you catch the puppy in the act of chewing, remove the object with a very firm "No chewing!".

Post by **Ayres** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 3:04 pm

Well yesterday I was trying to wipe off his paws when he came into the kitchen from outside (he had been digging), and he started nipping at my hands and whining because I had hold of his front paw. I grabbed his muzzle and growled like I have been doing to assert dominance and to curb biting behavior (which worked for a long time, mind you) and when I let go he reared his head back. Well, since he was laying on the floor, his head popped on the linoleum and he shrieked and then bit my fingers HARD. He had broken the skin for the first time, though it was no worse than a papercut. I'm sure that the only reason he bit was because he cracked his little noggin and felt threatened of bodily harm. Anyway, I just washed out the little scrape with peroxide and didn't think anything of it or dicipline him any more than putting him in his crate for a little time-out.

Then, last night, I was playing with him and a toy. He's got the habit now of trying to bite at the toy at the exact spots where my hands are holding on, because he knows that I'll move my hand position and he has a better shot at getting the toy and running away (though he just brings it back to me again for more play anyway). Well, I held the toy near my face, to my stupidity and detriment, and he reached up for it and nipped my chin. OW! Little puppy canine stuck in me! So, I laughed it off, went to the bathroom, got the peroxide, yadda yadda.

So, with his new roughhousing and his old tendency to nip Danyelle's nose (which, by the way, used to be cute when he was little and couldn't bite hard, even though I warned her that he'd grow up and she wouldn't like it then), we've got our hands full now trying to curb these behaviors.

Also, we have done the "ouch!" trick, and that did work when he was little and it would probably work still, at times when he's more calm. But he's just such a little fireball now that it's hard to grab his attention when he's running circles around the living room (literally). Besides, this isn't an instance where he's trying to or meaning to bite us, it's just that he get so rough when playing, like Grant said.

I've just been feeling like a pincushion these past couple days during playtimes!

Post by **grant** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 5:22 pm

That is so funny!!! Lindsay called today and said that our pup was trying to attack her ahahahhaaha

Ours is still little, so I hope you find a way to stop it before ours gets big too!!!

snips · Post by **snips** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:13 pm

I usually just ignore the puppy nipping unless it gets too obnoxious, then I will give them a little Bop in the chops if it turns to biting. Usually say Ahhhhh. My favorite word. Or grab the muzzle firmly.

dhondtm · Post by **dhondtm** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 6:48 pm

Well, like I said it is best done early at this point you might have to resort to grabbing the muzzle firmly. But, I always use that as a last resort. But, when doing this always let them know why your doing it, "No Biting!"

Ayres wrote:dicipline him any more than putting him in his crate for a little time-out.

Not to say this is wrong or that you should try changing anything now, but I have always designated a separate spot for time-out then the dogs crate. I use our bathroom for instance. This could lead to other problems with the dog not liking there crate. -FYI

Post by **Ayres** » Fri Jul 23, 2004 8:13 pm

As far as making him go to his crate, it really hasn't been an issue. My sister's weim always responds to "Rudy, kennel!" if he needs to be put in his kennel for acting up too badly or during mealtimes. Justus is no different.

He goes in his kennel all by himself when he wants to sleep, so I wouldn't say that he doesn't like it. Sometimes when he doesn't want to go in (because he knows he's been a bad boy) he just sits there and stares at the opening, but with a little usherance he just walks on in and flops down.

We've also not let him out of the kennel until he's a good doggy, and not whining or barking. This took some getting used to at first, but now he doesn't sit in there and moan or yip all the time either because he knows that he won't get out until he's quiet. This did, however, take quite a bit of work on our part because we had/have to let him out whenever he quits barking otherwise it starts to reduce the reinforcement of what we want.

dhondtm · Post by **dhondtm** » Sat Jul 24, 2004 1:47 am

Ayres wrote:Sometimes when he doesn't want to go in (because he knows he's been a bad boy) he just sits there and stares at the opening

I bet that would make a cute picture.

Ayres wrote:We've also not let him out of the kennel until he's a good doggy, and not whining or barking.

Good sound advice. That is what I have read to do as well. I try to explain to other people how well the crate training has gone for me, but a lot of people struggle with it because they do let the dog out when it barks or whines.

MrViz · Post by **MrViz** » Wed Aug 04, 2004 4:41 pm

Ayres

Having had 3 Vizslas and a current pup 10 weeks old I feel your pain. Your dogs behavior is normal for a Vizsla, every one I have had has displayed the same things. I do not know how ofter you get him out to let him run but I do know that Vizslas are high energy and if not run every day they get hyper as inside dogs. I run my new put every morning for about 30 min. It calms him down for about half the day and then I take him out in the late afternoon for another run. But you need to really let him run, it takes a lot of the energy out of him causing less problems.

My pup also exibits the same things yours does along with the biting. I use ouch when he bits as I did with our other dogs and it seems to work, but of course he still tries it but I notice the bits are softer. I also grab his muzzel and look him in the eyes and say no bit. I did not make it to the Busch fun day, did you go and how was it?

Mrviz