Gun Shy

wildman · Post by **wildman** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:07 pm

I have a 8 month old pointer pup that has had a .410 shot over her and is not afraid of a starter pistol. This weekend we shot a 12 gauge over her and she hit the ground and ran about twenty yards in the opposite direction with her tail between her legs and then started hunting again. Do I have anything to worry about have I created a problem we shot 2 more times over her with the same reaction. The next day during yard training I used a starters pistol and shot several shots and she did not even flinch. Is this something that will go away with more birds or does it need some other action to correct it. I would appreciate any advice.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:40 pm

I have no idea what you were doing in the field but you have to let her find and chase some birds so she is away from you and doing something she is excited about before you shoot. If you are just shooting while she is puttering around near you , you will end up with a gun shy dog.

Remember to try and make any new thing you introduce a minor event by making sure she is busy doing something she loves. Always try to set the dog up for success and not the opposite. Shooting over a dog in the yard for no reason is setting up failure and not success.

Go slow and get her away and busy and you should be ok, but it wouldn't hurt to wait till after a couple of more trips with her before shooting again.

Ezzy

Post by **kninebirddog** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:41 pm

When we intro to the gun we start by having our young dogs on the chain gang and watching the older dogs getting to come and go and hearing shots from ways off...then we take them out and from a ways back watch older dogs go on point and see a flushing bird and see and hearing the gun go of and they are watching an older dog go on a retrieve...then we work our young dogs older pups on birds and will hvae them on a check cord and let them point then we will shoot the gun in the opposite direction ....
all these steps are done at little each day ..not all at once we observe the reactions generally when you have a good prey drive and excitement the dogs either are curious or excited about hearing the shots

We never just go blasting shots over head....to see what will happen they don't have a prey drive going and if confused scare them and this is not a good situation

I would get the dog on birds and in this case let her point flush the bird let her chase and shoot a shotgun in the opposite direction ...let the prey drive take over..once you have the prey drive going and hopefully she doesn't back off which generally they are excited about the chase and the shotgun blast in the opposite direction from a distance doesn't phase them at all. you'll be fine... if she backs off the bird after the shot I would seek professional help.

OhioOnPoint · Post by **OhioOnPoint** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:56 pm

All I can say is go SLOW. It has been my experience that once a dog is gunshy, they are gunshy for life.

You are far better off to go slow and prevent gun shyness, than to try to reverse it later.

I start as early as pups, feeding in a metal bowl and using a metal spoon to stir it up loud and make a bunch of noise that they associate with eating - positive. I work from far away shots with a starter and move towards far away shots with a shotgun. I think 8 months, is old enough, but go SLOW! It all depends on the individual dog. If the dog is running away - start with smaller loads and go slow.

Higgins · Post by **Higgins** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:15 pm

This weekend we shot a 12 gauge over her and she hit the ground and ran about twenty yards in the opposite direction with her tail between her legs and then started hunting again. Do I have anything to worry about have I created a problem we shot 2 more times over her with the same reaction.

Wildman,
I train gundogs and owners and I'm always interested in how people go about training. When the dog ran away with tail tucked the first time you shot, what did you think her reaction would be when you repeated it two more times? Did you think it was something other than that first gunshot that scared her? Or maybe she would get used to it? Would help me to understand better what your thoughts were.

Brad Higgins

gunner · Post by **gunner** » Tue Feb 14, 2006 6:20 pm

Gunshyness is always man made.
There used to be several professional trainers that specialized in breaking gunshyness and would guarantee it or your money back.
The old time trainer Er Shelly was the master at it, and his assistant Al Brenneman carried the tradition on after Shelly's death.
Some trainers may still advertise this speciality in the Field or another gun dog publication.
You could find a copy of Shelly's or Brenneman's book at a used book site and attempt to do the work yourself, however it is much easier when you're working numerous dogs.
Check the Field or other gun dog trainers in your neck of the woods.
It may be easier to just pay someone else to do it. Most will be cured in a month or less.

wildman · Post by **wildman** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:49 am

I guess I didnt make myself clear she had birds shot over her with a .410 we shot birds over her with a 12 gauge this weekend. the starters pistol in the yard was after a bird had been flushed in front of her she has had had 30 birds shot over her and pointed probably 75 or more this was the first time she ever acted scared. Just to clarify that I am not just walking through a field shooting a shotgun in the air like some crazy man. Ohh and the other two times I shot over her resulted in two more birds that she retrieved just like the first one.

snips · Post by **snips** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 8:00 am

It is justa wake-up call that this dog is more noise sensitive than you realized. Just put the 12 G away and continue slowely with a 4-10 or maybe 20 G. I had a str I had been shooting a crimp blank around, then one day shot a 22 blank, she almost quit pointing birds. Time to back up.

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:08 am

OhioOnPoint wrote:It has been my experience that once a dog is gunshy, they are gunshy for life.

I have had a few that I have had good luck correcting. If the dog is still passionate about something and loves birds then you have something to work with. I had a dog that came in blinking birds and gunshy. Wouldn't point at all just blinked away when she realized there was a bird there. Her saving grace was that once the bird was in the air she still liked to chase it. She is a great hunting girl now.
VERY TRUE though, go slow!!! Assume that every step louder and different might be scarry and make it easy for the dog.

wildman · Post by **wildman** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:26 pm

Just to let you all know I have taken Belle out four times and shot birds over her with the .410 and she did great. Sunday we took her out again and used the 12 gauge and she did great. I recently bought a daughter of Honky tonk attitude and belle backed her two times and found several singles. thank you for all your advice.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 9:06 pm

Thanks for teh up date...always good to hear dogs coming around and happy owners

Boomer · Post by **Boomer** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:02 am

Wagonmaster · Post by **Wagonmaster** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 1:17 pm

have you ever had a 12 ga. go off behind you and fired in your general direction? it is not a fun or comfortable experience, and I say that having shot somewhere in excess of a hundred thousand rounds myself. there is a heavy concussive effect that is definitely not the same as just the sound of a gunshot. it is a pressure wave that you feel with your whole body, not to mention your ears. the bigger the gauge the more there is of it. probably, your dog just feels the difference between a small gauge and that 12, when the 12 is fired in her direction. would go back a few gauges and work your way up slowly. would also try firing in the air, i.e. straight up, once you get back to the 12. and would recommend finding and using some light 7/8 ounce or 1 oz. target loads to start with. they are not nearly as concussive as the bigger hunting loads.

sounds like you are doing everything right, but like the prior post said, you have a dog that is a little sensitive to the concussive effect of the big gun, back off a little.

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:45 pm

wildman wrote:Just to let you all know I have taken Belle out four times and shot birds over her with the .410 and she did great. Sunday we took her out again and used the 12 gauge and she did great. I recently bought a daughter of Honky tonk attitude and belle backed her two times and found several singles. thank you for all your advice.

Glad to hear it!! Good luck with both of them. Sounds like you'll have a nice pair of hunting girls.