"Buddy Stick" Training

OhioOnPoint · Post by **OhioOnPoint** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:29 am

Are you familiar with the buddy stick?

I have trained many dogs without it, and have only recently discovered this tool.

Let me just say that this thing makes a world of difference in training, especially commands like Whoa, and Heel.

I have been working on my newest GSP Roxi -- She is now 1 yr and 5 months old, and she can hold a point for 30 minutes if need be. I atrribute the success not only to her good bloodlines but also the difference in training with the buddy stick.

Best thing is you can make your own for under 10 bucks!!

8ft PVC pipe, repair link of chain, a bolt and screw, and a clasp.

Try this out, you may really love it.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:43 am

Show us a pic.

Ezzy

OhioOnPoint · Post by **OhioOnPoint** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:48 am

Check it Out here:

http://www.outdoorscentral.com/artman/p ... e_11.shtml

12 Volt Man · Post by **12 Volt Man** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 12:37 pm

Very interesting. I like the idea. Especially when teaching a dog to be steady to wing, shot, and fall. Being out front of the dog, with a launcher. Being able to encourage the dog to put it's head up and look stylish. I may have to try this.

Do you have a picture of the end of yours with the chain hookup so I can see exactly how it works???

The article doesn't say much about the handling of the stick. I guess you keep it in your hands and move the dog around. It did say something like a fish on a pole. That makes sense to me. What if you want to release the dog for a retrieve? Do you just let them drag it? Maybe one could incorperate a quick release, you could pull a string through the pipe that released the dog from the stick.

rkalgren · Post by **rkalgren** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:50 pm

I first heard of the buddy George Hickox training videos. Although he doesn't use one in the video he shows one and says it is one of the best training tools out there. The one he shows is 6 feet of 1 inch schedule 40 pvc drain pipe, two end caps, an eye bolt, nut, and a clip like on the end of a leash. I found it easiest to attach the clip to the eye bolt with a carabeaner.

OhioOnPoint · Post by **OhioOnPoint** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 3:22 pm

I use the original buddy stick but have adapted it with an 8ft lead pulled thru the PVC pipe for quick release situations.

When I first start a pup with it, I let the buddy stick hang.

You will see how it works the first time you try it. About 2 inches from the end of the PVC pipe, drill a hole that a bolt can go thru. You only need a link or 2 of chain to go beyond the end of the pole, which then connects to some type of clasp.

I go with the 2 -3 step method. Take 2 - 3 steps, then whoa the pup. If it doesn't stop immediately, use the buddy stick to stop it. Then release using a command like 'OK'. Take 2 -3 steps and Whoa -- Repeat for 5 minutes, twice a day, and if you have any bloodlines at all in your pup, it will be whoa trained in about 2 months. After awhile, start using a wing or scented dummy and toss it while the dog is whoa'd. Make any corrections needed to keep the dog planted. Then release. Add birds after the dog can whoa on command, and with ditractions like a dummy or tennis ball thrown.

This method is PROVEN. I use it, repetition is the key, and the results speak for themselves. Any Nay sayers should give it a try first!!

This is simple dixie-land style dog training. No rocket science, simple reps is all.

tailcrackin · Post by **tailcrackin** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 4:36 pm

I have a buddy by atlanta, 3mo pointer bitch, blew the stick up, on a bird, guess it don't stop all. Pinch collar is lot less headache, lot less work, and results are just as fast, if not faster. just a thought.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:34 pm

Jonesy,

What kind of dogs did you use the buddy stick on? I've seen it but never used one so can't really make much comment about it but have heard people who use them swear by them.

Ezzy

tailcrackin · Post by **tailcrackin** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:00 pm

I have not used, do know some people that have. I have used the leather pinch collar.....on all breeds, in the bird dog world, and retriever world. I feel it works very easy on the dogs, and very easy on the trainers, it stays black and white for both. just my opinion, it has and does work for alot of trainers. Buddy stick is another bell or whistle that doesn't have to be. Kinda like the run and gun trials, why?? What is the work that the dog is displaying?? Same with training, keep it simple in our minds and it stays simple in the dogs. Seems like everybody wants to try and figure out to much of what and why, with the dogs heads, and get all like a proffesor and the physics.. just teach it to stop and stand, and the rest will all overlay. A dog will be broke when it wants to, a pup will point a bird when it wants to. People do to much work........... for the dog, or pup, and it always comes out in the wash later. Which is where all the man made errors come from, bird shy, gun shy, flagging, ect.... All dogs are different and people dont pay attention to that usually. when it falls apart later, they don't understand. I am not gonna argue, I know what I have done, and have never personally had a problem with teaching it, to any breed of sporting dog. Ezzy I have some info on a seminar coming up in spring that the guy that taught me is putting on, you should go, and check it out, very interesting. Gaurantee you will come home with a different thought on all of this. jonesy68@alltel.net

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:17 pm

I'm a little confussed? Sorry dumb guy in Utah! The dog is out front of you and then you say WHOA and if they don't you pull on the stick? Or is the dog at heel and you WHOA them and then walk out front?

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:03 pm

Jonesy,

Like I said I have never used it so don't feel comfortable telling anyone that it doesn't work or is harder than the way I do it. Seems that you haven't either but I thought you had when you were saying it was more work than a pinch collar. I never used a pinch collar much either. I should get one though it sounds like.

So all I'm saying is I dont have a thought on this since I have no experience. But am always happy to see new tools and new methods but I want to try them before giving some one advise that may be completely wrong. I realize that no matter how we have done it in the past there probably is other methods that are as good or better. I try very hard to keep an open mind when it comes to training since I have seen the methods change completely since I started years ago.

Ezzy

ohiogsp · Post by **ohiogsp** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:29 pm

Tak, This tool is great if you have a dog that won't stand at whoa. You know how they want to follow you. You can push back at them when walking out to the front. You can stay in front of them and keep putting them at whoa as they are trying to get to you. I think this works because the dog is stopping to whoa 8 feet away from you and facing you.

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:36 pm

I can see this tool working quite well for teaching heal at a distance or heal off horse back. I you were to be walking a 2 track out west here it is alot nicer to have the dog walking the other side of the trail so you arnt getting crowded. As far as teaching whoa a young pup just learing what the word is might be ok but once the e-collar is intorduced it should be come usless. JMO

12 Volt Man · Post by **12 Volt Man** » Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:50 pm

I am thinking it would be great to stop creeping. Also working with the dog on steady to wing, shot, and fall. Also if the chain is left a little long you can gently work the dogs head up with the pole so it looks extra pretty standing on point.

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:15 am

I still got no clue how the darn thing works. Can anyone make a quixk video clip or series of pictures?

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:20 am

Ryan wrote:I still got no clue how the darn thing works. Can anyone make a quixk video clip or series of pictures?

Ahh i get it now. I had to reread it 2 times but I think I know how it works.

tailcrackin · Post by **tailcrackin** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 6:41 am

Ezzy, what I saw from two different people, two different locations and times, the stick made you miss the correct correction, that would not have been missed with a pinch collar. Both of these people are pro's one of witch was supposed to have worked with buddy smith few years back. I feel that you can be more exact with all while teaching a young or old dog, when using pinch collar. It could work well for some, but myself, I will stay right where I am at. Did not see the advantage of it. Thanks Jonesy

gunner · Post by **gunner** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:54 am

Just a note on Buddy Smith. He is one heck of a trainer, and has won in nearly all the disciplines from NSTRA to the big major circuit trials.
He's known as the pro's PRO, as many of the professional's that run into difficulty with a particular dog will take it to Buddy for the cure.
He's been featured in a number of the sporting dog publications for his "Buddy" stick, his cotton wagon quail, etc.
Sadly, he was severly injured in a truck accident a year or so with his dog truck, horse trailer being wrecked and upsided down. I believe he has recoved as well as can be expected. He's no young guy.
White Dog Productions(same folks that put together the Ferrel Miller training tape) have produced a training video with Buddy. I've not seen it but it is said to be one of the best.
The "Buddy stick" can be used with great success, particularly in yard work, giving the handler "power steering" over and beyond a checkcord. It will anchor the canine pupil when you take that first step in front of his nose and add a leverage to the teaching of heel that accomplishes you to do much more and in less time than what you'd accomplish with a limp check cord.

OhioOnPoint · Post by **OhioOnPoint** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 12:51 pm

Hey Tailcrackin -

What do you expect from a 3 month old? You mentioned a 3 month old that blew up the stick...Must be a fast grower. My pups are about 15 lbs at 3 months and can barely drag the buddy stick...

tailcrackin · Post by **tailcrackin** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 1:18 pm

this was a line bred snakefoot bitch that is gonna end up an all age dog, believe rick furney will prolly end up with her on his string. awsome animal, overload of desire, and run, she is 7 mo now and getting horseback derby placements. just flat out whole lotta dog, an exceptional animal

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:07 pm

tailcrackin wrote:this was a line bred snakefoot bitch that is gonna end up an all age dog, believe rick furney will prolly end up with her on his string. awsome animal, overload of desire, and run, she is 7 mo now and getting horseback derby placements. just flat out whole lotta dog, an exceptional animal

Doesnt matter if it line bred or inbred. The point is a 15 pound puppy will have a hard time dragging a 5 pount stick around. You should try it on the dog now and you will probally find better results.

I agree with Ohio on this one pup was too little for the type of comments you are giving. myself and im sure 90% of the other people here on GDF would not even put on a buddy stick that big on a puppy.

tailcrackin · Post by **tailcrackin** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:53 pm

Go back and reread some of my posts, I said that there was nothing that I have seen that will encourage me to change my style. what was also said was it might work for some, wondering about the original post of the dog being 3 mo old, is not ready for steady work yet anyway. unless you have an exceptional dog as my buddy has. I also said with an 8 ft piece of pvc bouncing into the dog as its trying to break, if you do not catch it as the dog is cutting to the right or left, while birds in the air, oppertunity is missed, for any sort of correction. I run betwen 50 to 60 all breeds through here yearly, if it works for you, great, I was not impressed. Just my opinion, my self I don't like the facial expressions on the dogs that I have seen from the after product. Do the program, its your dog. Just my thoughts from seeing and watching. Sorry to offend anyone

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:09 pm

Interesesting topic...No I haven't tried the stick Have had great work and ease with clients and their dogs with the wonder lead in Smith methods...
Only thing I can see is the long distance stuff in flat ground....looks like it would be a challenge to use in our neck of the desert

anything that works is a good thing...just to show there is more then one way to train a birddog

Biggest thing is for people who do not handle dogs on a daily basis check them out ..make up your mind which one you can understand ...Choose one and STICK with it bouncing around from one method to another will only confuse your dog making trianing sessions set up for not so good times

Luminary Setters · Post by **Luminary Setters** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:19 pm

Last year a friend suggested I go spend a day with Buddy Smith. At the time I didn't know he had over 850 field trial wins, elected to the Bird Dog Hall of Fame, and considered to be one of the best trainers of FDSB AA derby dogs. I thought I was going to see another trainer with another "gadget".

At the end of the day, I had digested a whole lot of information, used the stick to train on some of my dogs as well as dogs in Buddy's kennel, and new perspective on training. Now the Buddy Stick plays a big part in our program on both the youngest pups and oldest dogs in the kennel. Its use extends well beyond whoa training. I have sticks ranging from 2 up to 8 feet and use them daily. Like any tool, you have learn how to use it to work for you, not against you.

I am really surprised that its concept did not surface decades ago.

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:17 pm

The concept is not new at all, only the material used to make it is new.. Er Shelley used the same concept in the early 1900's, he used a bamboo pole. Buddy Smith is a good trainer and always thinking, he never got stuck in a rut and stopped learning. I use to run NBHA trial dogs against him, he's a good man.

Mo

PS I don't know if Mr. Shelley invented this or not and it don't really matter.. not alot of knew stuff out there other than ecollars and remote launchers.

Luminary Setters · Post by **Luminary Setters** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 5:32 pm

Maurice,
What you said about Shelly doesn't surprise me. It is a simple an effective trianing tool. As an interesting side bar, earlier today I read an interesting line in a book. "Every original idea is first ridiculed, then vigorously attacked, and finally taken for granted."

I guess the dog training world is no exception.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:33 pm

Think that is absolutely right. Seems the more dogs a person has trained the narrower the mind. I suppose that is natural but sure slows down the learning process of the trainers first, which probably means its slows down the dogs too. And of course there are always exceptions.

Ezzy

tailcrackin · Post by **tailcrackin** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 6:44 pm

Now I will disagree with that statement, when you several different breeds of dogs all year, and the same style works just as simple and just as fast. That is what makes it a nice way to train, take a vizsla and use the stick on it, see how fast you'll be forgiven by the dog. When you can have the usual dog steady to wing and or shot in 3mo or less, training can't be that much slower, but maybe more understanding for the dog?? Right?? Like I said earlier, blk/wht for the dogs, and blk/wht for the handlers. seems like it has to be a job for most, instead of keeping it simple, and sticking to the program.

Maurice · Post by **Maurice** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:12 pm

Hunter

I would say that quote is about right.. I learned a long time ago not to argue about the different training methods. I think a person has to use the method they are comfortable with and understand the method before they reach a high level of success and there are plenty of methods to pick from. I do think that some new trainers get side tracked and cause confusion with thier dogs by mixing methods or not sticking with a method long enough to see results They change methods to fast hoping the next method will be magic and show quick results.. I know and trust my way of training but it certainly does not make my way the only way or the best way.. Just the best way for me but I do keep a open mind about things. The dogs teach me new stuff all the time as long as I stay focused on them. Dog training is more of a art than science, and sometimes that is hard to teach.

Mo

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:59 pm

Yawallac · Post by **Yawallac** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:01 am

Sounds interesting. I'm going to make one this afternoon and give it a try. What is the length of chain between the PVC and the collar? a couple of inches?

Thanks,
Ross.

OhioOnPoint · Post by **OhioOnPoint** » Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:17 am

Just 1 or 2 links is good.