bite inhibition training please

shootist · Post by **shootist** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:59 pm

My WPG pup is 10 weeks old. He likes to bite people. I want to not let him get into this habit. When he bites me or a family member we grab his muzzle and growl "NO!" at him. He now has a new twist on the "game". He knows we are going to grab his muzzle so he bites and then immediately jumps out of range. Or he will go around you and bite on the move so you can't get him. Any suggestions on how to break him from biting?

Post by **Ayres** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:12 pm

At 10 weeks old, the pup bites because he is figuring things out. He doesn't know how strong his bite is, and mouthing is an essential part of puppy playing. Think of a pup's mouth like a baby's hands. It's how he gets your attention, how he picks things up, etc.

For a good article on how to manage puppy biting, check out this article and others from Ingle & Mead's Vizsla Encyclopedia website (not just for V owners):

http://www.vizsladogs.com/ARTICLES/pupbiting.htm

Post by **kninebirddog** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 6:04 pm

You definitley need to get thta nipped in the Butt right away as this will only get worse.

One method I use is when the pup offers to bite me I take my 2 fingers and place them inside the mouth sideways with my thumb under the jaw and my other hand behind the head. What I am doing is changing the rules of the game which like kids most don't want to play under other rules so ...making sure my fingers stay in the pups mouth..till the pup stops struggling as soon as the pup stops the struggle and is standing there then ask and roll your fingers back into the mouth...after you go through this place your hand back down in front of the muzzle the pup should Lick your hand..If the pup even offers to mouth repeat as often as necessary I find 1-2 most often works on most pups and be prepared for a later test...

Another Method which Sharon Potter has suggested is shove the hole fist in to the dogs mouth making them choke on your hand...I have used this on some older dogs but on pups I start with above mentioned

HUTCH · Post by **HUTCH** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:09 pm

my wife gently flicked my pup in the nose when he bit her and two times of that and he doesnt bite anymore.

Post by **Ayres** » Fri Jan 27, 2006 11:54 pm

Most of the biting a puppy will grow out of as long as it's not encouraged, rewarded, or made a game out of. He's a pup; he's playing and doesn't know any different.

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:38 am

I would definitely subscribe to the “nip it in the bud now” theory. Sure biting is natural and he needs to do it. As Steve said, he is playing and figuring things out. He can figure it out and play with other things, not on you. You make the rules, not him. You must win this now. Waiting for him to grow out of it is a huge gamble that I would not make. Before you know it, this cute little fur ball will be approaching 50 lbs. I would litter my house with things he could bite. As soon as he bit me, I’d let him know that it’s not acceptable. Immediately tease him with something he is allowed to bite and praise him while he bites it. Biting you can’t just lack reward, it must be unrewarding. How unrewarding? As unrewarding as it takes.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:57 am

Guys,

What a silly discussion. A puppy bites when he plays. Of course it isn't pleasant being chewed on so naturally you tell it no or slap it or do whatever you want to discourage the pup. But this has nothing to do with a the pup biting later in life. If you have a child and it bites you, correct it and after a few episodes it gets better. So will the pup. But as stated, biting is a form of play and nothing more. Handle it however you want. Correction will speed the process but it will stop sooner or later.

Ezzy

Post by **kninebirddog** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:46 pm

Well just got a pup back today from an owner which didn't nip the biting in the bud..when the pup was younger...
6 months old now and she lounges for the face and the owners arms are shredded... grand daughter been nipped up after i repeatedly showed him what he needed to do...This pup will not nip or even offer to bite me as I have shown her what is and isn't acceptable behaviour...but she will not behave the same with her owner which has let her get away with cute puppy stuff
So I will work with this person and their issues which are behaviour related as to who is leader and who isn't..
Sorry if this has become a bit of a touchy subject but ..Pups need to know at a young age what is and isn't acceptable...and done right it isn't a big thing..but not dealt with can lead in to a major issue like what I am having to help with now at a stage where the pup has tested and has gotton away with undesirable behaviour with their owner for quite sometime...What I will be working with is the owner as the pup knows where she stands with me

Buzz · Post by **Buzz** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:00 pm

kninebirddog wrote:Well just got a pup back today from an owner which didn't nip the biting in the bud..when the pup was younger...
6 months old now and she lounges for the face and the owners arms are shredded... grand daughter been nipped up after i repeatedly showed him what he needed to do...This pup will not nip or even offer to bite me as I have shown her what is and isn't acceptable behaviour...but she will not behave the same with her owner which has let her get away with cute puppy stuff
So I will work with this person and their issues which are behaviour related as to who is leader and who isn't..
Sorry if this has become a bit of a touchy subject but ..Pups need to know at a young age what is and isn't acceptable...and done right it isn't a big thing..but not dealt with can lead in to a major issue like what I am having to help with now at a stage where the pup has tested and has gotton away with undesirable behaviour with their owner for quite sometime...What I will be working with is the owner as the pup knows where she stands with me

I agree. I'm sure plenty of dogs grow out of it. But I've seen a few that did not. I don't mean to imply aggression in the dog. I've just seen some rough play and a lack of manners and control.

Post by **Ayres** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:15 pm

Nobody here is advocating letting the dog continue to bite. It's just that, because this pup is just 10 weeks old it's obvious that he's mouthing because he's just figuring things out. Coming down exceptionally hard on him at this point in his life may just make him fear you and cause problems with proper bonding. You just have to understand where the pup is coming from. He's not biting to be aggressive, he's just playing. He doesn't even know how strong his jaws are yet.

This isn't to say that the biting shouldn't be discouraged. But, all it should take is a quick scream and a minute or two of ignoring him. He'll quickly learn that when he plays he can't bite, or the playing stops.

Later down the road, when he's older, if the biting persists then it may be necessary to move on to another stage of bite inhibition. But at 10 weeks old, I wouldn't advise any active correction, only a passive one.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:26 pm

Who said anything about coming down exceptionally hard...

Just that it should be addressed when it starts..so that the pup knows that it is unexpecatble behaviour a method I use changes the name of the game which also teaches the pup who is the alpha in their lives..It is nature of the dog to always try and test for the alpha roll and if the owners do not set the ground rules this teaches a pup to keep testing further...I do not validate Harsh treatment of pups or dogs....But guidance and leadership of the pack is a must
Even a mother dog will snap and set a pup straight for nipping in her face...

Post by **Ayres** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 10:35 pm

Knine, making the pup choke on your hand would be coming down exceptionally hard, in my opinion. I realize that's not what you do, but was a method you described.

All I'm trying to do in my posts is explain the difference when an active bite inhibition is necessary (because the dog is biting with a purpose) and when merely a passive bite inhibition is the best course (when the pup is only biting because he is playing and unaware).

Post by **kninebirddog** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:03 pm

kninebirddog wrote:You definitley need to get thta nipped in the Butt right away as this will only get worse.

One method I use is when the pup offers to bite me I take my 2 fingers and place them inside the mouth sideways with my thumb under the jaw and my other hand behind the head. What I am doing is changing the rules of the game which like kids most don't want to play under other rules so ...making sure my fingers stay in the pups mouth..till the pup stops struggling as soon as the pup stops the struggle and is standing there then ask and roll your fingers back into the mouth...after you go through this place your hand back down in front of the muzzle the pup should Lick your hand..If the pup even offers to mouth repeat as often as necessary I find 1-2 most often works on most pups and be prepared for a later test...

Another Method which Sharon Potter has suggested is shove the hole fist in to the dogs mouth making them choke on your hand...I have used this on some older dogs but on pups I start with above mentioned

Here is the post of what I do and what a very well respected Huntsmith trainer does......These methods are to correct an undesirable behaviour in a quick and effective method which doesn't hurt or harm a pup in any manner If it does hurt or harm a pup then it is not being done correctly...It should be done in a method and manner which lets the pups know the undesired effect whioch comes from undesired behaviour...Heck when I watch a mother dog put a pup in place I hear the pup yelp but with in seconds playing like nothing happened...
It is all in perspective....

Post by **Ayres** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:41 am

I read your post the first time, and it was the "making them choke on your hand" part that caught me as being a little excessive for a 10 week old puppy. Also, as I said, I realize that's not the approach you actually take with puppies.

Again, though, all I'm advocating is a less hands-on approach, similar to the method in the above article I linked to, and to this FAQ on the Vizsla Club of Illinois' website: http://vizslaclubofillinois.org/trainingandcare.htm#why

An approach like this worked very well for my dog, and took almost no time at all. Of course, though, as always, to each their own. I'm not saying any other method is faulty or won't work, I just caution against over-correction since shootist's pup is so young still.

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:43 am

ezzy333 wrote:Guys,

What a silly discussion. A puppy bites when he plays. Of course it isn't pleasant being chewed on so naturally you tell it no or slap it or do whatever you want to discourage the pup. But this has nothing to do with a the pup biting later in life. If you have a child and it bites you, correct it and after a few episodes it gets better. So will the pup. But as stated, biting is a form of play and nothing more. Handle it however you want. Correction will speed the process but it will stop sooner or later.

Ezzy

I dont think anything more needs to be said!

Post by **Ayres** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:46 am

Casper wrote:I dont think anything more needs to be said!

Agreed.

snips · Post by **snips** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:11 am

The pup I currently have just turned 4 mo old and she was the worst biter I have had. She has not bitten me in about 3 weeks. The way I stopped it was nipping her back. That is how her Mom would stop her. She is a sweet loving family member now. I used alot of Ahhh too when she started, but she knew the consequences.