Young Brittany NO Point

[JMoss]

I was working with a young brittany 3 months old yesterday on some pigeons at six weeks the pup pointed a few piegons and showed that the pup had the insticnt and makings for a great bird dog. Since then we Haven't got the pup to point another bird. I have been training shorthairs all my life haven't had this problem before. I'm thinking that maybe the pup is just young. I have heard that brittany puppies are a little slower to mature is this true? Is the pup to young to be working on birds? Let me know what you think about the brittany bread and what to do with this puppy?

[Middlecreek]

I am sure Ezzy333 will probably give you some ideas. He has Brits and has like 7000 plus posts, most of which are mentioning that breed in one way or another so I'm assuming he is an expert on the breed. Or PM him, I'm sure he would be glad to help.

[Birddog3412]

I wouldnt be to worried yet. When he was 6 weeks was he sight pointing the piegions or scent? Will he sight point anything at this point? Is he from hunting lines or show?

[Will]

3 months is pretty young for birds...but not completely uncommon either. I doubt there is anything to be concerned about as you have plenty of time to let this pup grow up. What does the pup do around birds now?

[BoJack]

Definately not too young for the pup to be getting some experience finding and pointing birds.Was there any Negative experiences on it's eralier encounter with birds? Like the birds spooking her when flushing or flying in her face? If so it could be causing her to blink-(bird avoidence).Are you sure she's down wind of the birds? I have had older dogs run by birds because the wind direction wasn't right.And if she was pointing pigeons at 6 weeks old I'm sure she was Sight pointing instead of Scent pointing.

[ezzy333]

I was working with a young brittany 3 months old yesterday on some pigeons at six weeks the pup pointed a few piegons and showed that the pup had the insticnt and makings for a great bird dog. Since then we Haven't got the pup to point another bird. I have been training shorthairs all my life haven't had this problem before. I'm thinking that maybe the pup is just young. I have heard that brittany puppies are a little slower to mature is this true? Is the pup to young to be working on birds? Let me know what you think about the brittany bread and what to do with this puppy?

I wouldn't be working pups of any breed on birds at that age. Introducing them is good but the they need to be allowed to grow up before formal training begins. Work on the yard work with out pressure and get the pups into the field and as many new situations as possible. But the bird work can wait till the pup is old enough to know what is bred to do. Most of the time the pup will tell you when as it starts to point birds and animals in the yard. But formal training is best left till the pup is near a year old at least.

My experience has been Brits are a little quicker to mature than a GSP but I think they are getting better today than they were a few years back. No need to worry about the pointing as it will come when the pup is ready. They are all different. The pup will not point as quickly if it is getting to chase birds almost daily and has a lot of prey drive.

Ezzy

[BoJack]

I don't think there's any Experts on this board,including Ezzy.Maybe some with more training and dog experience.But then again there's more then one way to train dogs and solve some of the problems also. You can find some good opinions and information here for sure.

[birddogger]

The fact that your puppy is not pointing birds at this age means absolutely nothing. Just let everything you do with him be fun for him, with no pressure. Bird introduction is fine, but, as ezzy advised, no formal work at all should be done at this age. It is exciting to see a very young puppy pointing a bird, but not all puppies are pointing right out of the shute, it will come when he is ready.

Socialize him and work on some low pressure commands, such as the here command. Just relax and have fun with your puppy for now.

BTW, I will disagree with the previous poster. I believe there are some experts on here, but I am not one of them.

Charlie

[kninebirddog]

At 3 months old it is learning games

I like super good flying birds and let them learn they can't catch the birds then for control stuff i will just let the check cord help stop the forward motion and until i can get slack in the check cord only then will we begin to present the bird It is all good and all fun

but the pups that have a stronger desire to chase then point there will slowly helping them to learn to take the chase out and will NOT hammer on forcing the point just a couple little sessions to help give the idea but it is done gentle and lightly so it is all fun...out side of that I will not get on them about it that would be like forcing a 1st grader to do high school work...

[BoJack]

I don't think Letting a 3 month old pup learn to use his nose to find birds is Formal training.It's part of the learning process that teaches them to know what they were bred to do,like Ezzy says.Lots of walks in the woods and fields to explore everything new sure,yard work sure,in due time.The guy says he's trained Shorthairs all his life so I'm sure he knows the right process for starting a pup.

birddogger,
For future reference who's the Experts on here?

[birddogger]

BoJack, it is just my personal opinion, but I would consider some of the pros, who have trained dozens, if not hundreds of dogs, to be experts in their field. I am not going to get into specific names, but we have at least one member who has written a series of books and dvds on retriever training. We have another whom I would consider an expert in health and nutrition. He had to go to school for years to get there. There are a select few who are experts in breeding, as the quality and success of their puppies over the years, speaks for itself. Granted, the vast majority of members are by no means experts, although many of them have tons of experience. Then there are others who don't have a clue. I apologize for getting off topic, but I just wanted to explain the reason for my comment.

Charlie

[Keny Glasscock]

Don't focus on what you expect from the pup right now but rather what the pup can learn from each encounter. Build upon each experience. Take it slow don't rush things. If the pup has the right genetics and is given time to develop it's own instincts it wil come around in time.

[Shadow]

I've got 2 pups that were born in July- they've been hunting pheasants with their parents since november 14th-
I haven't trained them- naturals

[birddogger]

I've got 2 pups that were born in July- they've been hunting pheasants with their parents since november 14th-
I haven't trained them- naturals

So, what is your point?? Don't take it wrong, just having some fun.

Charlie

[BoJack]

birddogger ,
That could be true to an extent.

[snips]

I agree with Knine, let him find some good flying quail. That usually flips the switch on pups:)

[Kiki's Mom]

I agree with Arlette and Brenda....get this pup into some good flying quail and let nature take it's course. ALTHOUGH...some show lines and even some field lines are very very late to mature into their noses. 3 months is really rather young to be expecting much.
Just sayin...

[3Britts]

As has been pointed out before, take your time and let the pups genetics play out. Every pup is different and will mature at his own speed. I have seen some pups that point, retreive, etc at four months and others who take over a year before they get their hunting legs under them.
I generally start a pup by taking it with me when I hunt my older dogs. The pups does its best to follow and explore with the older dogs and I do my best to hunt while carrying the pup when it gets tired. Mostly, I just enjoy the pup until it shows signs of really wanting to hunt.

[Shadow]

As has been pointed out before, take your time and let the pups genetics play out. Every pup is different and will mature at his own speed. I have seen some pups that point, retreive, etc at four months and others who take over a year before they get their hunting legs under them.
I generally start a pup by taking it with me when I hunt my older dogs. The pups does its best to follow and explore with the older dogs and I do my best to hunt while carrying the pup when it gets tired. Mostly, I just enjoy the pup until it shows signs of really wanting to hunt.

pretty well said right there

[steady on point]

I have been raising Brittany's and training all breeds for a lot of years. Your pup's prey drive is coming out and their natural instinct is to try and catch the bird rather than sneak up on. Their pointing a bird is their intention to sneak up and try to catch it . My advise is to take the pup off of birds until it is old enough to start formal training and teaching it to point rather than try and catch birds. My opinion is by letting a young dog chase birds you are creating a habit you will later have to break.

I will agree Britt's mature at a later age than some other pointing breeds. Make sure their tail is up and they are having fun other wise they will start to shut down and not learn anything.

[Shadow]

Charlie- what is my point you ask-

unlike the guy above who has so much experience with Brittany's and says Britt's develope later than some breeds, shouldn't be allowed to chase real young, and wait a long time to get into birds, and teaching to point in formal training-

mine didn't need any training, put them down with an adult on wild pheasants at 4 months- they learned and are pointing, backing, and retrieving-
but since that is the way I have been doing it with all my Britt's for some 20 years- and I haven't used a check cord or a shocker collar- guess he's right I started to young and should have waited to train mine

[cjuve]

I will qualify my post by saying that I have no experience with Brittany's but have with pointers. You first have fo figure out what you want out of the dog, is this dog going to be used for horseback trials, foot hunting on a preserve, hunting small tracts of land or huge open spaces IMO all that plays a role in how you bring them along. I hunt huge open tracts of public land that the birds are few and far between therefore I desire more range,independance and hunt with less of a priority on control, bottom line I want the dog to do whatever it takes to find birds so what I am posting is geared to that type of dog. I am not saying that I want a runoff I just require less of the standard 10-2 quarter within gun range but all of the steadyness that I can get.I agree with the others that say get them into good flying birds but I do not like planters for a pup that comes much later if at all and coveys make all the difference. IMO wild birds are the best for bringing out the point, given enough contacts the pups will eventually figure it out it could be as little as 10 contacts or as much as 150. There is so much more learned in this process that IMO cannot be taught in a mowed field on a checkcord with a launcher when the dog is older. Opportunity makes a good birddog not sitting in a kennel.

[birddogger]

Shadow, I agree entirely with you concerning the post above yours. I believe it is never too early to introduce a puppy to birds, as long as there is no pressure and it is kept fun. But let's get back to the original poster. He is concerned because his puppy is not pointing birds at 5 mos. old, and I am saying it doesn't mean anything at this point. The fact that you have 4 month old puppies that are finding and pointing birds has nothing to do with it.

It sounds like you have access to alot of wild birds and that is great. A puppy can be brought along much faster with wild birds, but not everybody has that luxury.

As far as training goes, If you were to attend a hunt test such as AKC MH or NAVHDA utility or some field trials, I think you would see the difference in a well trained dog vs. a dog using it's natural abilities alone. However, as long as your dogs please you, that is all that matters.

Charlie

[Shadow]

Charlie- guess I've always been lucky with my Britt's-

here at my door I have a big field-(but I lived in town for 30 years and didn't) so I started the pups running with an adult real young-to see what I could see- and get them to run and not play arround- birds were no concern- I found out one pup ran nice with one -one pup ran nice with the other- I continued to run them together- hunting season came so I continued- since neither adult played arround or false pointed, the pups seemed to catch on- excitement started when an adult locked up- I read each pup and did a little handling- month went by- female started to point pheasants and back- male was later- he hasn't got the backing down pat yet

what I meant to say- and like a few others here- even brother and sister developed at different times- but over a period of 4 months without birds and then in pheasants both have it down pretty good- they've developed their run and use their noses- they handle nicely- and they lock up on pheasants

if the breeding is there ard you don't put a lot of pressure on- they will develope- you can help it along- but get frustrated thinking the Britt doesn't have- you both loose- best to take the pup to a pro and let them evaluate and tell you what's up JMO

[kninebirddog]

this is bailey when she was a pup she had tons of chase in her..I do not have the luxury of wild birds so we worked her on launchers with pigeons if she scented and went in bird was flushed and then she was cued to stop
we worked just flushing birds out of the blue and helped with the stop to flush
when she started to stop on birds flushing I then went back to working her on scent again

We were on the road since end of sept we got home i worked her a little then we ran a NSTRA trial last weekend her Points scored in the 80's she held them well even when we had a few runners...Sunday she got a 4th place not bad for her first weekend down she is 2 years old

I took my time plus have to work other peoples dogs before I get to work my own...but I don't see a need to rush things ..rushing is where one runs into problems which for a dog with strong desire to get the birds if you push them to hard when they aren't ready it can lead to blinking or flagging

[birddogger]

Charlie- guess I've always been lucky with my Britt's-

here at my door I have a big field-(but I lived in town for 30 years and didn't) so I started the pups running with an adult real young-to see what I could see- and get them to run and not play arround- birds were no concern- I found out one pup ran nice with one -one pup ran nice with the other- I continued to run them together- hunting season came so I continued- since neither adult played arround or false pointed, the pups seemed to catch on- excitement started when an adult locked up- I read each pup and did a little handling- month went by- female started to point pheasants and back- male was later- he hasn't got the backing down pat yet

what I meant to say- and like a few others here- even brother and sister developed at different times- but over a period of 4 months without birds and then in pheasants both have it down pretty good- they've developed their run and use their noses- they handle nicely- and they lock up on pheasants

if the breeding is there ard you don't put a lot of pressure on- they will develope- you can help it along- but get frustrated thinking the Britt doesn't have- you both loose- best to take the pup to a pro and let them evaluate and tell you what's up JMO

Shadow, maybe you have been lucky to have Britts with natural ability, but I think you are doing more training than you realize. As someone said, everything you do with your dogs is training. Wild birds makes it much easier.

Charlie

[Shadow]

suppose so Charlie- I don't do any formal training-

interesting that the original poster hasn't responded