When and how do you introduce the e-collar?

llewgor · Post by **llewgor** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:09 pm

I got my Gordon when was 4 months old. So after he had a few days to settle down with his new home I began.
I began with both the checkcord and e-collar and with the e-collar at it's lowest setting. I command HERE pull the checkcord and tap the e-collar.
I use the e-collar for here and heel, and with both my dogs they respond to lower settings.

Toyman · Post by **Toyman** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:40 pm

I would not use the e collar until I have taught a command and the dog knows what you want. I would also go very slow with the e collar until you research and read a lot on how to apply it. Better to go slow than try to back up when it may be too late.

Hopefully some experienced users of the e collar will enlighten you a lot more.

Toyman

llewgor · Post by **llewgor** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:28 pm

Toyman
I'm not using the e-collar as a shock collar. It's at a very low setting. I'm not zapping the dog into submission or using it as punishment. I don't think the e-collar is applying anymore stress to the dog's neck or the dog than the pull of the checkcord.
So that's why I'm asking how do you intro the collar.

Toyman · Post by **Toyman** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:44 pm

If you are using the e collar before you teach the command then you are using it in a way that most experienced users do not use it. I think you may want to research the way most others use the e collar. If you use it without the dog knowing the command then, in my opinion, you are using it as a shock collar or punishment for not doing what the dog has not been taught to do. These comments are not meant to argue with you, but to give you another perspective on how to use and not to use the e collar. Most pro trainers will not discuss the use of the e collar on a forum for fear of a novice (like me) not understanding and messing up a dog. Just my take from reading and listening for a long time.

Toyman

sdgord · Post by **sdgord** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 6:45 pm

Well I had to introduce the collar to my Tink dog when she was about five months old to break her of chasing jack rabbits. I did not use the more intense settings on my Annie dog until she was a year old, she never had a jack rabbit fixation. I have used it to reinforce behaviors that they have already learned. I use the dogtra 1200ncp and use the pager function almost exclusively now as that is all it takes is a vibration to get the desired response.SDGORD

Post by **ezzy333** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 10:22 pm

I introduced it to reinforce the come. I agree when used correctly it isnt anymore severe than any other correction. Ezzy

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 11:05 pm

Up until a few months ago I would has told you only to use the collar to enforce a command that the dog knows. Well after Dave Walkers seminar and watching him take the softest of dogs and work bird with the dog and useing the e-collar. Low setting on most dogs but there were the harder charging dogs that got more juice.

snips · Post by **snips** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 6:38 am

As for the "when", I don`t even think about using a e-collar on a pup, even low levels. I start when the dog tells me he is ready for it. Some dogs at around 6 mo others maybe a yr. "How" is I overlay it using a CC, whether it is on the neck or rear they learn the point of contact before using the E.

llewgor · Post by **llewgor** » Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:40 pm

I agree that you have to read the dog and that some need more than others. So far with Buddy a low setting works, but I'm sure that could change. Also I don't know how much work he had with any regular collar before I got him. He's pretty gentle and it doesn't take much to coax him to do what you want.

sdgord I think I'll check out one of those vibration collar's and see how close it is to the lowest setting on my collar.

portsider44 · Post by **portsider44** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 12:33 pm

Well I can remeber several months ago I posted that I didn't have any plans on using a collar on my new pup.

However I my view has now changed. My pup is 3 1/2 mths old & I think the e-collar with vibration & low setting may be the way to go.

Not sure about using to teach a command though. Right now I run my dog on CC (using a 15ft) at a large park that is next to a Jr High football field. Most of the time she will respond to command she knows (come, leave it, no) however somethings when she is out away (20-60 yards) from me she choose not to listen. She will raise her head & look at me buy will not listen to the command.

Once I get to the end of the CC & say the command again, she will comply. Of course by this time it is too late to give any correction. I guess you could say she is cc smart at times.

I love that she is ranging out a little I just hate not having control & letting her get away with ingoring a command. The more I think about, the more I think that an e-collar would be th way to go...MIKE

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 1:01 pm

Mike,

I think you are right on track. One of the reasons that thinking has changed on the use is the concept of stimulation instead of correction.

I too have advised over the years to be extremely careful which meant a lot of times i just said don't use it. That advise is still correct I think if you are trying to correct and action in the field when the dog isn't in sight.

However, a different set of rules may be correct as far as yard and command teaching. A low setting or tickle is probably a whole lot less stressful for the pup than a leash or a slap on the nose or stepping on a foot. And the control that you have when the pup is off the checkcord is comforting for you and I think gets through to the pup better than anyother training method there is.

When you and the dog both know you are in control you both act better.

Ezzy

llewgor · Post by **llewgor** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 6:14 pm

ezzy
Exacty what I was trying to say, but failed, I don't use the collar to correct the dog. I use the collar as if it is the checkcord. Once they've learned the pull(stimulate) of the checkcord and tickle(stimulate) of the e-collar together means here. Then you move to only e-collar still at a tickle (stimulate).

Thanks ezzy

Post by **Ayres** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 8:22 pm

Be very careful and remember that the best use of the ecollar is when you don't have to push the button.

Also, make sure your dog knows the command before gradually moving to the ecollar as the reinforcement. Never use it to teach the command.

Since you have a V, I would also recommend getting one of those pinch collars and using that inbetween a regular collar and the ecollar intro. It gives the same style of pull that the regular collar gives but also a slight pinch which can be transferred to the same style of stimulation that the ecollar affords.

Finding a pinch collar for a 3.5 month old though... you're going to have to pull a lot of links out to get it the right size.

dhondtm · Post by **dhondtm** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:35 pm

My comments are still the same from before, which are in this post...
http://www.gundogforum.com/forum/viewto ... highlight=

I started my puppy, now 6 months, A Vizsla. I don't turn the collar on, but I have her wearing it now when we train.

Margaret · Post by **Margaret** » Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:38 pm

Methinks a person who would harshly handle a puppy would not change their spots with an e-collar control in their paws.

There is discussion that over use of ecollar is encouraging breeding of dogs that are too independant for the average person.
If the dog is hard to control, slap an ecollar on it and there you have put sugar on the sour base.

I had to use my old electric collar on my 6 month pup as she took to chasing a wild pheasant down the long drive toward the road.
I used the electric collar a few times to correct her for ignoring my calls. Then I put it up.
I was surprised to have to use an electric collar on a puppy.

I'm sure there are times now if she was wearing and ecollar I would use it just because its there to use, I don't think this is a good thing. It's just another form of hacking IMO.

How do the dogs behave in the field with the collar off?
That's the clincher for your training , and the relationship between you and your dog.

Marg

llewgor · Post by **llewgor** » Fri Sep 16, 2005 7:19 pm

portsider44
PDJ has a article by Rick Smith in this months issue title E-Collar Basics. In this article he explains how to fit the e-collar on your dog to make sure it works properly, how he prepares a dog to be trained with the e-collar. I think this article would help you decide if you are ready to use a e-collar and how to use it in a gentle way. If you can't get this article pm me and we will figure something out. pointing dog journal sept/oct.