Hi - I have my first laborador puppy. He is 5 months old. He is advanced in some ways and behind in one that matters. I know that he fully understands what COME means. He is a smart dog. He comes to me with no problems at all while on a lead or when in my house. He comes to me sometimes when not on the lead. I believe in his case it is a stubborness, or maybe he is so distracted that he doesn't hear my command. I'm afraid that he'll get hurt sometime, by wandering somewhere he should not go.
I'm looking for some advise on how to train a 5 month old dog to come to me on command - all of the time without exception. I've been told to not take him off the leash till he does it all of the time. I have tried this method, but without fail when I take him off of the leash he will wander off and not listen. I have had people tell me to get a shock coller - but he is only 5 months old. I do not feel that is the thing to do at this point.
Oh - I do take him to my dads about once per month. Dad has 115 acres and a lot of room to run etc. I generally allow him to run learn and play (off of the lead) while at my dads. We hike together without a lead and he seems to listen fairly well when it is just the two of us, but just not ALL of the time. I'm hoping it is a puppy thing - but everything I read says how important it is for him to learn to COME on command 100% of the time. What are your thoughts? I'm open to any suggestions right now. Thanks.
Come
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Casper
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 1364
- Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 10:46 pm
- Location: northern nv
your right about:
the E-Collar you dont need it right now
he is a puppy still
the lead stays on him even when you allow him to run free
With labs and most all sporting dogs the lead is where it all starts. This is your control for all situations. When you are at your dads and you let pup run free he should have his check cord on. Before you let him run free go through a few reminder drills then let him run. If he doesnt come on the first command you give catch up to him w/out startling him grab the lead and give him the tug he already knows means he has no other option then to comply. Only when he starts to comply w/out you having to give a correction should you try taking him off lead. If he doesnt respond the first tim you take off the CC than catch him and put it back on and do a few more drills. Any time he doesnt respond go back to the CC.
If you let him off lead dont expect him to do something he hasnt fully learned. If you are going to your dads house and let him run free just go and catch him and walk him back doing a few come commands while you are heading back to the house or car. Take advatage of every opportunity you can even if it is just going to the car from the house one or two quick reminders will keep him doing it right. It "needs" to be engraved in his tiny brain.
Always set him up to succeed with a very positive experience and you will have a wonderfull exp.
I am telling you this from personal exp. I did exactly what you are doing. I thought just because my lab came in the yard and in the house she new the command but at 1 1/2 yrs when she got in the field in a real life situation and would not come when called. I paid dearly for the next year doing this very same drill only making mistakes the whole way till I finnaly got it down what I was supposed to do. :roll:
the E-Collar you dont need it right now
he is a puppy still
the lead stays on him even when you allow him to run free
With labs and most all sporting dogs the lead is where it all starts. This is your control for all situations. When you are at your dads and you let pup run free he should have his check cord on. Before you let him run free go through a few reminder drills then let him run. If he doesnt come on the first command you give catch up to him w/out startling him grab the lead and give him the tug he already knows means he has no other option then to comply. Only when he starts to comply w/out you having to give a correction should you try taking him off lead. If he doesnt respond the first tim you take off the CC than catch him and put it back on and do a few more drills. Any time he doesnt respond go back to the CC.
If you let him off lead dont expect him to do something he hasnt fully learned. If you are going to your dads house and let him run free just go and catch him and walk him back doing a few come commands while you are heading back to the house or car. Take advatage of every opportunity you can even if it is just going to the car from the house one or two quick reminders will keep him doing it right. It "needs" to be engraved in his tiny brain.
Always set him up to succeed with a very positive experience and you will have a wonderfull exp.
I am telling you this from personal exp. I did exactly what you are doing. I thought just because my lab came in the yard and in the house she new the command but at 1 1/2 yrs when she got in the field in a real life situation and would not come when called. I paid dearly for the next year doing this very same drill only making mistakes the whole way till I finnaly got it down what I was supposed to do. :roll:
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Kevin
IMO it depends on the dog. I'll probably get jumped for this but I wouldn't hesitate to put an e-collar on the dog, let him wear it for a month or so and then start to introduce it.
Had the same situation with my pup, he would respond instantly when within checkcord reach, but learned that once he got out abit he could blow me off, and I couldn't catch him. Once I caught up it's too late to give any sort of correction.
My options were;
1.get a longer checkcord(although anything longer than 30ft I find near impossible to use,unless there is NO cover where you train)
2.Never let him out of CC range /30ft
3.Condition him to the collar.
I will add that the pup is extremely high prey drive and is very tough, so if you try and use silk gloves he'll walk all over you. Anyways, I borrowed a friends Dogtra until the G2's are in and it is very handy.
I see it just like a checkcord, actually it's probably easier on the dog than the CC, I keep it low and the dog responds well. It has allowed our training to progress more because I can let him run at a suitable range and still have control,with a checkcord he was limited to 30ft. I will add that some of my training fields other than the NAVHDA grounds are only a couple of acres, usually bordered by roads....need I say more.
All I'm saying is don't rule the e-collar out, it's not a midevil torture device, it's a training tool. It can be used very low, and has the HUGE advantage of applying the correction when needed, not 5 mins later. You often here that they will screw your dog up, and that is true, but only if used foolishly. It's the trainer not the collar.
Good Luck
Had the same situation with my pup, he would respond instantly when within checkcord reach, but learned that once he got out abit he could blow me off, and I couldn't catch him. Once I caught up it's too late to give any sort of correction.
My options were;
1.get a longer checkcord(although anything longer than 30ft I find near impossible to use,unless there is NO cover where you train)
2.Never let him out of CC range /30ft
3.Condition him to the collar.
I will add that the pup is extremely high prey drive and is very tough, so if you try and use silk gloves he'll walk all over you. Anyways, I borrowed a friends Dogtra until the G2's are in and it is very handy.
I see it just like a checkcord, actually it's probably easier on the dog than the CC, I keep it low and the dog responds well. It has allowed our training to progress more because I can let him run at a suitable range and still have control,with a checkcord he was limited to 30ft. I will add that some of my training fields other than the NAVHDA grounds are only a couple of acres, usually bordered by roads....need I say more.
All I'm saying is don't rule the e-collar out, it's not a midevil torture device, it's a training tool. It can be used very low, and has the HUGE advantage of applying the correction when needed, not 5 mins later. You often here that they will screw your dog up, and that is true, but only if used foolishly. It's the trainer not the collar.
Good Luck
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birddog
With the checkcord on, this is what I do.
I will set the dog up in a situtation where I know he/she will not come when called. Lets say they are smelling something other then bird scent. I give the come command. If the pup does not come I will then walk up to them without saying a word, grab the checkcord give them a good swat on the butt, and then back up to the spot where I had first called them. I give the come command again and usually after that good swat they respond by cominig in to you. After they come in, praise and repeat. This is usually easier said then done with an older pup, that is why the come command should already be trained and ingrained by 5 months. The older they get the harder it is to get your hands on them. Here lies the importance of the checkcord. If you get a hold of the cord they can't get away from you and you can keep the dog from running off and are able to get to the dog to enforce the discipline.
To accomplish this without the cord you must set the dog up in a situtation where he can't run off. If they are in the house with you it is easy. When the dog is occupied with something, give them a call. If they don't come, go to them, give them a swat and back up to where you called them. Weather in the house or outside, once you move to discipline you must follow through and never call come unless you are sure you can enforce the command should they not respond.
I also feel the pup is a little young to strap on an ecollar, so try this before you do. I am sure you will get the results you are seeking.
Janet
I will set the dog up in a situtation where I know he/she will not come when called. Lets say they are smelling something other then bird scent. I give the come command. If the pup does not come I will then walk up to them without saying a word, grab the checkcord give them a good swat on the butt, and then back up to the spot where I had first called them. I give the come command again and usually after that good swat they respond by cominig in to you. After they come in, praise and repeat. This is usually easier said then done with an older pup, that is why the come command should already be trained and ingrained by 5 months. The older they get the harder it is to get your hands on them. Here lies the importance of the checkcord. If you get a hold of the cord they can't get away from you and you can keep the dog from running off and are able to get to the dog to enforce the discipline.
To accomplish this without the cord you must set the dog up in a situtation where he can't run off. If they are in the house with you it is easy. When the dog is occupied with something, give them a call. If they don't come, go to them, give them a swat and back up to where you called them. Weather in the house or outside, once you move to discipline you must follow through and never call come unless you are sure you can enforce the command should they not respond.
I also feel the pup is a little young to strap on an ecollar, so try this before you do. I am sure you will get the results you are seeking.
Janet
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katjoy
I appreciate the advise everyone has given to me and I'll keep at it. I believe part of my problem is that I have a dog sitter while I'm at work. They are trying to enforce my training, but somehow I don't believe the COME command is being enforced as much as I'd like.
I'll have him alone this weekend and I'll really work on a bunch of small training sessions. He is already doing many of the other things that he should do. He gives to me on command. He like to play pull, but as soon as I say give he stops and releases. He holds items on command without a problem.
He comes to me perfectly if I'm in the house or I have a CC on him. I'll try the exercises one of you mentioned with the controled distractions followed by a correcton when he doesn't listen and see how that works. I'll let you know after the weekend how I'm coming along with this.
Thanks again for the advice.
I'll have him alone this weekend and I'll really work on a bunch of small training sessions. He is already doing many of the other things that he should do. He gives to me on command. He like to play pull, but as soon as I say give he stops and releases. He holds items on command without a problem.
He comes to me perfectly if I'm in the house or I have a CC on him. I'll try the exercises one of you mentioned with the controled distractions followed by a correcton when he doesn't listen and see how that works. I'll let you know after the weekend how I'm coming along with this.
Thanks again for the advice.
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Casper
- Rank: 5X Champion
- Posts: 1364
- Joined: Thu May 12, 2005 10:46 pm
- Location: northern nv
think of that pulling game with a bird! he may let go on command but what if he decides he wants to play pull with your bird you are hanging on telling him to let go but he still wants to play this fun game.
IMO dont let it happen as to not take any chances with trying to correct a behavior problem later on
its cute now but it could be a problem later
IMO dont let it happen as to not take any chances with trying to correct a behavior problem later on
its cute now but it could be a problem later
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llewgor
- Rank: 3X Champion
- Posts: 500
- Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 6:54 pm
- Location: rio linda ca
Katjoy are you using a 6ft. leash? If you are do as Kevin said and get a check cord 20 to 30 ft.
Also I agree with Kevin about the e-collar, using it at a low setting and with the checkcord is not a bad thing for 5 month old dogs.
However if you've never used one and from your post calling it a shock collar I assume you've haven't . I would recomend that you go to someone who can train you about e-collars before you use it. The idea is not to shock the dog into submission but tug on the dog neck to respond to your command. Much like the checkcord is tugging when you give your command.
If you know of someone with a good e-collar try this test. Place the contact points on your arm and at the lowest setting push the tap button. I promise it won't hurt .
You'll feel a little tickle that's what your dog will fell and that's all they should feel if condition with the e-collar properly.
It's a great tool if used the right way, so get yourself trained on how to use one before you try it. Then you'll understand that it's not a shock collar nor should it be used as a shock collar.
Also I agree with Kevin about the e-collar, using it at a low setting and with the checkcord is not a bad thing for 5 month old dogs.
However if you've never used one and from your post calling it a shock collar I assume you've haven't . I would recomend that you go to someone who can train you about e-collars before you use it. The idea is not to shock the dog into submission but tug on the dog neck to respond to your command. Much like the checkcord is tugging when you give your command.
If you know of someone with a good e-collar try this test. Place the contact points on your arm and at the lowest setting push the tap button. I promise it won't hurt .
You'll feel a little tickle that's what your dog will fell and that's all they should feel if condition with the e-collar properly.It's a great tool if used the right way, so get yourself trained on how to use one before you try it. Then you'll understand that it's not a shock collar nor should it be used as a shock collar.
Billy
"Change the way you look at things, and the things you look at change"
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/3genview.php?id=147
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/3genview.php?id=152
"Change the way you look at things, and the things you look at change"
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/3genview.php?id=147
http://www.perfectpedigrees.com/3genview.php?id=152
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birdshot
- Rank: Champion
- Posts: 334
- Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2005 1:55 am
- Location: nebraska
to teach, come, with your lab, play fetch with him several times a day. Call him as soon as he picks up the bumper. use a bumper until he is conditioned to return. use a high fun voice and run away from him if he is not coming all of the way in. don't worry about him being steady until he blazes out and back on his return.
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birddog
I am not sure if I would follow that advice. In my opinion you don't try to teach two different commands at the same time.birdshot wrote:to teach, come, with your lab, play fetch with him several times a day. Call him as soon as he picks up the bumper. use a bumper until he is conditioned to return. use a high fun voice and run away from him if he is not coming all of the way in. don't worry about him being steady until he blazes out and back on his return.
The dog must be conditioned to "come" before you move forward. To add the dummy and fetch command before they know the come command is not the way to enforce the dog to respond to the come command. The dog may come to you , but he is coming on his terms and may decide to run off with the dummy.
Teach come with the checkcord on until you can trust the dog to come in every time you call them. After "come" is inbedded in their little brain, then, and only then, would I move forward with throwing dummys.
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Mtnspaniel
I would not use a high voice, come is a command, say it like you mean it, but don't yell or raise your voice. I would go with a check cord and wean off quickly to enforcment with a collar, use the nick setting as low as possible. A low set collar will have less impact on a dog than a CC and it will not get tangled. If the dogsitter says come cosider using the command "here" or tell the sitter to quit giving commands they are not willing to enforce.