Posted this on another board but will try it here as well.
What exactly is temperment testing and how do you go about it?...or not, and why?
What does it tell breeders and puppy buyers.?
Thanks
Temperment Testing
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Rusti's Mom
I will try.
I am not sure what you are asking, but I need some more info.
At what age are you trying to do this?
Where did you hear about doing this?
What breed of dog are you referring to?
As a breeder, I have seen males that I did not like as they were very tempermental, like biting at and fighting with other males, so I would not choose them to use as a stud for my female. They are "hard" dogs, stubborn, and not co-operative without the use of an e-collar. The two studs that I have used, so far, are very gentle dogs and anyone can handle them, correct them, or hunt with them. Thus, I look for studs that are very even tempered. I have looked at a lot of dogs and have watched them at tests and trials, to see how they interact with the other dogs, and the scores of people and kids around them.
The pups from the first litter are very "soft dogs". Soft, meaning they don't need heavy correction nor can they take it. They are very easily trained and are very co-operative with anyone. They are coming along nicely at 15 months old.
This new litter is only 4 weeks old, so, the only thing I can say about them is they all, at this point, seem to have great temperments. You can cradle them on their backs, and they do not fight. You can roll them over and tickle them and they seem to enjoy that also. They are eager for love and attention and they get a lot of it.
It depends if you are looking to get a new pup, or if you are looking for a certain test to give to an older dog. I am not sure that an exact test exists. But I am not the expert.
Pat
I am not sure what you are asking, but I need some more info.
At what age are you trying to do this?
Where did you hear about doing this?
What breed of dog are you referring to?
As a breeder, I have seen males that I did not like as they were very tempermental, like biting at and fighting with other males, so I would not choose them to use as a stud for my female. They are "hard" dogs, stubborn, and not co-operative without the use of an e-collar. The two studs that I have used, so far, are very gentle dogs and anyone can handle them, correct them, or hunt with them. Thus, I look for studs that are very even tempered. I have looked at a lot of dogs and have watched them at tests and trials, to see how they interact with the other dogs, and the scores of people and kids around them.
The pups from the first litter are very "soft dogs". Soft, meaning they don't need heavy correction nor can they take it. They are very easily trained and are very co-operative with anyone. They are coming along nicely at 15 months old.
This new litter is only 4 weeks old, so, the only thing I can say about them is they all, at this point, seem to have great temperments. You can cradle them on their backs, and they do not fight. You can roll them over and tickle them and they seem to enjoy that also. They are eager for love and attention and they get a lot of it.
It depends if you are looking to get a new pup, or if you are looking for a certain test to give to an older dog. I am not sure that an exact test exists. But I am not the expert.
Pat
You would have to believe in it to trust it! One of our most famous trainers ever Delmar Smith wrote books on the last puppy picked. Picking a good breeder and then a good bred is the key. I have had pups shipped in without even seeing a picture of them. Crap shoot at best but you can play more of a part by socializing it and introduction to your game.......
Of the litters of pups I have raised I can say that even with all the contact I have with them come time to leave to new homes I am still undecided... Each day one pup will be ripping around full of it's self and the next day the one that seemed to like the comforts of the welp box be out and giving the older dogs a run at it.
So if you are looking at getting a pup find a good breeder. Talk with them.
Of the litters of pups I have raised I can say that even with all the contact I have with them come time to leave to new homes I am still undecided... Each day one pup will be ripping around full of it's self and the next day the one that seemed to like the comforts of the welp box be out and giving the older dogs a run at it.
So if you are looking at getting a pup find a good breeder. Talk with them.
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Country-Side Breeders
Sorry Kevin...I only saw the post tonight. 
Temperament testing is a set of evaluations/tests that is designed to help evaluate the interest, aptitude, learning ability, and personality of a dog to better match the dog with an owner who is looking for a dog with a particular potential. They are tested on sociability (look for a puppy which readily follows you with tail up and a prance, great eye contact with you from the moment of placing puppy on floor, comes when you gently blow a whistle and runs to you enthusiastically when you squat on the floor), prey drive (find a puppy which enthusiastically chases a bird wing which you pull along the floor, chases the bumper rolled across the testing area, runs after each toy which is tossed, picks it up and runs back to you with it or at least picks it up and plays. He should investigate the noisy pulled toy, have tail up most of the time while investigating the toy and then joyfully follow the toy as you push or pull it about the testing area)
, noise sensitivity (the puppy should investigate a noisy and erratically moving rolled pill bottle then not be bothered by it. A rare puppy will even retrieve this object. They should investigate a noisy toy and be interested in retrieving it. Clapped hands should elicit interest with tail up and then approach to you. The pop gun should startle and then interest the pup. If it freezes or runs away with tail down this is a potentially seriously noise sensitive dog), terrain courage (the puppy should pay little or no attention to crossing a large piece of cardboard or chicken wire to get to his retrieve toy. He should be happy to cross back over the obstacle to get to the tester. Repeated crossing and following across the obstacle should be barely noticed by the puppy. If his parents loved the water most puppies will happily enter a small pond edge to get a toy. If the puppy happily climbs up a bank to follow you this is also very good), birdiness (A puppy should be very interested in a pigeon inside a wire crate or exercise pen. He should run around the outside of the pen trying to get to the bird. If he is placed in the exercise pen with the bird he should chase the bird and pick it up. If he continues to chase the bird outside the pen and bring the bird back this is wonderful. A puppy which shows fear of the bird is not demonstrating courage nor perseverence nor birdieness), structure (the way the puppy/dog presents himself/herself, high head and tail, prances with a sense of pride) and general things like independance, how he/she interacts with the other dogs, how forward he/she is etc. The big thing to remember when testing is to do it in an unfamiliar setting, a clean and brightly lit garage floor is great for doing this.
Does it need to be done by the buyer? Not if the breeder has done his/her job and has spent endless hours with the pups and can tell the buyer exactly what pup has what traits and is contact with the buyers since the day and even before the pups are born, telling them every new thing that is happening, good or bad. Often times, buyers will want to perform the tests themselves to set their minds at ease.
Temperament testing is a set of evaluations/tests that is designed to help evaluate the interest, aptitude, learning ability, and personality of a dog to better match the dog with an owner who is looking for a dog with a particular potential. They are tested on sociability (look for a puppy which readily follows you with tail up and a prance, great eye contact with you from the moment of placing puppy on floor, comes when you gently blow a whistle and runs to you enthusiastically when you squat on the floor), prey drive (find a puppy which enthusiastically chases a bird wing which you pull along the floor, chases the bumper rolled across the testing area, runs after each toy which is tossed, picks it up and runs back to you with it or at least picks it up and plays. He should investigate the noisy pulled toy, have tail up most of the time while investigating the toy and then joyfully follow the toy as you push or pull it about the testing area)
, noise sensitivity (the puppy should investigate a noisy and erratically moving rolled pill bottle then not be bothered by it. A rare puppy will even retrieve this object. They should investigate a noisy toy and be interested in retrieving it. Clapped hands should elicit interest with tail up and then approach to you. The pop gun should startle and then interest the pup. If it freezes or runs away with tail down this is a potentially seriously noise sensitive dog), terrain courage (the puppy should pay little or no attention to crossing a large piece of cardboard or chicken wire to get to his retrieve toy. He should be happy to cross back over the obstacle to get to the tester. Repeated crossing and following across the obstacle should be barely noticed by the puppy. If his parents loved the water most puppies will happily enter a small pond edge to get a toy. If the puppy happily climbs up a bank to follow you this is also very good), birdiness (A puppy should be very interested in a pigeon inside a wire crate or exercise pen. He should run around the outside of the pen trying to get to the bird. If he is placed in the exercise pen with the bird he should chase the bird and pick it up. If he continues to chase the bird outside the pen and bring the bird back this is wonderful. A puppy which shows fear of the bird is not demonstrating courage nor perseverence nor birdieness), structure (the way the puppy/dog presents himself/herself, high head and tail, prances with a sense of pride) and general things like independance, how he/she interacts with the other dogs, how forward he/she is etc. The big thing to remember when testing is to do it in an unfamiliar setting, a clean and brightly lit garage floor is great for doing this.
Does it need to be done by the buyer? Not if the breeder has done his/her job and has spent endless hours with the pups and can tell the buyer exactly what pup has what traits and is contact with the buyers since the day and even before the pups are born, telling them every new thing that is happening, good or bad. Often times, buyers will want to perform the tests themselves to set their minds at ease.
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Rusti's Mom
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Kevin
Thanks Patty,
When is this done, in the 6-8 week range. Is this a standard test that most breeders do, or do different people make up there own.
Tak, "You would have to believe in it to trust it!" I believe in it...I agree that at 8 weeks you will not know the pup completely, if he/she is going to be a MH or VC but you will have a darn good idea as to it's boldness,pointing instinct,desire,etc in most cases.
When is this done, in the 6-8 week range. Is this a standard test that most breeders do, or do different people make up there own.
Tak, "You would have to believe in it to trust it!" I believe in it...I agree that at 8 weeks you will not know the pup completely, if he/she is going to be a MH or VC but you will have a darn good idea as to it's boldness,pointing instinct,desire,etc in most cases.
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Country-Side Breeders
The methods are based upon Clarence Pffafenberger's book, New Knowledge of Dog Behavior and research publications from many institutions of higher learning. Modifications have been developed which evaluate puppy aptitude and channel their interests into venues desired for a desired dog. These methods have been developed and refined over nearly twenty years of raising puppies and will continue to evolve as more knowledge and experience is gained.
Testing starts from day 1 and continues through 12 weeks. Although I think most stop once the pup leaves, between 7 and 8 weeks. I personally use these methods, beginning with day 1. I don't know if others make modifications to it, I would assume so as to meet the needs of each breed.
Testing starts from day 1 and continues through 12 weeks. Although I think most stop once the pup leaves, between 7 and 8 weeks. I personally use these methods, beginning with day 1. I don't know if others make modifications to it, I would assume so as to meet the needs of each breed.
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QCBirddogs
Personally,
Any breeder that tells you they could pick out a good dog from a litter at 8 to 12 weeks is full of it! and full of himself too.
I have been at the trial game for 20 years and can't do it all the time!
I bought one pup in my time that had the test performed on the litter. It proved useless! I got the best one in the testers Eyes. We call him "TARD", he is fun to watch though!
We all have our own ideas about breeding, noone is right and dead on! Sometimes it works and then sometimes it doesn't
Bob Wehle, one of the better EP breeders, in some eyes, claimed to have the perfect gene pool. (pool? maybe puddle!). If it was so perfect, how did he come up with terrible bites and bad hips? Not bad mouthing him here either, The Elhews have been some of my better and easier trained dogs in my kennel over the years. Just making a point on breeding.
I would say..pick your breeder well, the pup will follow suit. We all have different ideas on how to do this too! :roll:
Phil
REO
Any breeder that tells you they could pick out a good dog from a litter at 8 to 12 weeks is full of it! and full of himself too.
I have been at the trial game for 20 years and can't do it all the time!
I bought one pup in my time that had the test performed on the litter. It proved useless! I got the best one in the testers Eyes. We call him "TARD", he is fun to watch though!
We all have our own ideas about breeding, noone is right and dead on! Sometimes it works and then sometimes it doesn't
Bob Wehle, one of the better EP breeders, in some eyes, claimed to have the perfect gene pool. (pool? maybe puddle!). If it was so perfect, how did he come up with terrible bites and bad hips? Not bad mouthing him here either, The Elhews have been some of my better and easier trained dogs in my kennel over the years. Just making a point on breeding.
I would say..pick your breeder well, the pup will follow suit. We all have different ideas on how to do this too! :roll:
Phil
REO
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Country-Side Breeders
Oh, I agree with you, Phil. Nobody could possibly know how a pup is going to turn out at that young of an age. But, doing some "testing" on them can let a person know which is going to be hard to train, soft, or in the middle. I certainly don't tell anyone that is getting a pup from me what pup to take. I tell them the honest traits of each pup and let them decided what pup they want. I think the new owner has that right to make that decision. I do help them out, based on what they're looking for, but the final decision is theirs. And, like you said...sometimes a pup is one way when it's young and completely the opposite at maturity. I also believe a lot of the temperament the dog comes from the way it's brought up...surroundings, people, handling, etc. A dog kept in a kennel away from human contact is going to behave different than a dog that's kept in the house where it can interact with people...IMHO.
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QCBirddogs
We are definetly on the same plane here Patty!
I do the same with dominence and all, and still let them choose too! I dont buy in to the 48th day thing either.
I too belive its all how they are raised. Science is not too far off in cloning dogs for the public. Cats are being done now for a mere 50 grand, around a 1000 for the procedure too! This covers collection and storage for DNA for 6 months. Save your pennies!
(article in our last Vet journal)
I can't wait to see how that turns out. NAture Vs. Nurture here. Even though the dogs wont look at all alike, they will have similar traits. My money would have been on Mr. Wehle cloning Snake! Too bad he passed before this came in full swing!
Phil
I do the same with dominence and all, and still let them choose too! I dont buy in to the 48th day thing either.
I too belive its all how they are raised. Science is not too far off in cloning dogs for the public. Cats are being done now for a mere 50 grand, around a 1000 for the procedure too! This covers collection and storage for DNA for 6 months. Save your pennies!
(article in our last Vet journal)I can't wait to see how that turns out. NAture Vs. Nurture here. Even though the dogs wont look at all alike, they will have similar traits. My money would have been on Mr. Wehle cloning Snake! Too bad he passed before this came in full swing!
Phil
Kevin, lots of people do. I am just one that does not. Let me explain a little on this of my idea. I look for a pup that is built to what I like, deep chest, tail set, etc...... and yes color and markings.
I weight much more on the breeder as a person and the dad and mom of the pup.
Example: My Niki dog as a pup was a Alligator with long legs. A friend that does some Navdha held her one day at 10 weeks. He tried to lay her on her back and calm her, It was a little funny. He held her out away from his body and it looked like she was in a race! She flat out refused to stop sqirming, rolling and just flat out to settle Down. His words were you will have fun with this one. I felt the same, that she would be hard to train. I stand hear to tell you she was one of the easiest dogs to get finished. At 3 she is like the grand mother of the kennel. Never barks, stands at the gate to be let out. When in the house just takes a load off and warms your feet. Natrual Pointer, retriever and backer and can flat out move across the country.
I have another dog Jesse acted the same way as a pup and she is much more of a challenge to train. So all and all it is a crap shoot at best!
Select your breeder well. They can bold your pup up! You leave them in with mom for 8 weeks and then cut them loose for the first time at that age you are about 4 weeks behind the curve.
I weight much more on the breeder as a person and the dad and mom of the pup.
Example: My Niki dog as a pup was a Alligator with long legs. A friend that does some Navdha held her one day at 10 weeks. He tried to lay her on her back and calm her, It was a little funny. He held her out away from his body and it looked like she was in a race! She flat out refused to stop sqirming, rolling and just flat out to settle Down. His words were you will have fun with this one. I felt the same, that she would be hard to train. I stand hear to tell you she was one of the easiest dogs to get finished. At 3 she is like the grand mother of the kennel. Never barks, stands at the gate to be let out. When in the house just takes a load off and warms your feet. Natrual Pointer, retriever and backer and can flat out move across the country.
I have another dog Jesse acted the same way as a pup and she is much more of a challenge to train. So all and all it is a crap shoot at best!
Select your breeder well. They can bold your pup up! You leave them in with mom for 8 weeks and then cut them loose for the first time at that age you are about 4 weeks behind the curve.
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dhondtm
If I understand this comment correctly, your saying a good breeder will bold up a pup from 4 weeks to 8 weeks of age? What exactly does a good breeder do during this stage?TAK wrote:Select your breeder well. They can bold your pup up! You leave them in with mom for 8 weeks and then cut them loose for the first time at that age you are about 4 weeks behind the curve.
I am just curious what to look for in a breeder. I feel I found a very respectable breeder for our next pup. Her reputation of getting a good bird dog has been pretty good. But, if there is some things I can ask her during our selection I would love any suggestions.
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Kevin
dhondtm, Let me start that if the Breeder did not do what I said does not make it a bad dog or bad breeder!!!!
Lots can be done at 4 weeks of age. Pups are wheeling around and starting to explore, chewing sticks hoses leaves, grass a dog turd that I did not see, each other etc. I take my little ones to the yard and roll them around play with them grab a sock and play tug ahwar with them. Most offen they go to the big dogs and find out what the gentle giants are.(Make sure your older dogs exept them mine do) feeding time I start with clapping of the hands before I present the food. I move it to a hammer on a piece of wood. Needless to say when all of them are out and I want to gather them up I start clapping my hands and guess what? I got a grundle of puppys at my feet wanting food. Yes 4-5week old pups.
Around 5 and 6 weeks I have a quail (live) so they can give it a good work out. Oh yes the quail's wings are duck tapped. No reason to shy a pup at the young age. At this same age I will drag a wing for them let them point it and get a good idea to freeze. I try not over due this as I believe it instilles "I can get a little closer and take a look latter in training"(JMO)
Introducing all kinds of new things to a pup builds the boldness, nothing I do with them they can not win at! Same with my training of a new pup always set up to win! Its latter as when I set them up to loose to get that correction!
My best buddy when he gets a new pup he brings into the house and that is where it lives for the first 2 weeks to a month. He has an opinion that this creates a bond between him and his dog. I believe it does, just not my cup of tea.....
How I would select a breeder? First what does this breeder do with the dogs? Hunts, shows, sits in the kennel and has puppys?
This person best know what he has in the bloodlines. What are the good things with the lines? What are the bad things? Past litters? Talk with them let them know you. When you have a problem can you call them? Will they be able to answer the problem. Will they stand behind the pup. I am talking about things other than man made problems, gun shyness human shy, etc
Ask around about the breeder not just what list they gave you. There is going to be good and bad said about them. It will be your figuring out what is true or not. Heck post on here what kind of dog you are looking for and I am sure people will tell you where to find a good one.
So my point is you find a litter owner that spends the time to start this pup on the right leg you will have some of the battle won!
Lots can be done at 4 weeks of age. Pups are wheeling around and starting to explore, chewing sticks hoses leaves, grass a dog turd that I did not see, each other etc. I take my little ones to the yard and roll them around play with them grab a sock and play tug ahwar with them. Most offen they go to the big dogs and find out what the gentle giants are.(Make sure your older dogs exept them mine do) feeding time I start with clapping of the hands before I present the food. I move it to a hammer on a piece of wood. Needless to say when all of them are out and I want to gather them up I start clapping my hands and guess what? I got a grundle of puppys at my feet wanting food. Yes 4-5week old pups.
Around 5 and 6 weeks I have a quail (live) so they can give it a good work out. Oh yes the quail's wings are duck tapped. No reason to shy a pup at the young age. At this same age I will drag a wing for them let them point it and get a good idea to freeze. I try not over due this as I believe it instilles "I can get a little closer and take a look latter in training"(JMO)
Introducing all kinds of new things to a pup builds the boldness, nothing I do with them they can not win at! Same with my training of a new pup always set up to win! Its latter as when I set them up to loose to get that correction!
My best buddy when he gets a new pup he brings into the house and that is where it lives for the first 2 weeks to a month. He has an opinion that this creates a bond between him and his dog. I believe it does, just not my cup of tea.....
How I would select a breeder? First what does this breeder do with the dogs? Hunts, shows, sits in the kennel and has puppys?
This person best know what he has in the bloodlines. What are the good things with the lines? What are the bad things? Past litters? Talk with them let them know you. When you have a problem can you call them? Will they be able to answer the problem. Will they stand behind the pup. I am talking about things other than man made problems, gun shyness human shy, etc
Ask around about the breeder not just what list they gave you. There is going to be good and bad said about them. It will be your figuring out what is true or not. Heck post on here what kind of dog you are looking for and I am sure people will tell you where to find a good one.
So my point is you find a litter owner that spends the time to start this pup on the right leg you will have some of the battle won!
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kninebirddog
- GDF Premier Member!
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- Joined: Sat Dec 25, 2004 12:45 am
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There are quite a few things a breeder can do to get pups prep for the big world they are going into...for instantance...Pups that have the possibilty of going to trialing type home or to people who take their pups to different places ..these pups can be introduced to new things and places at younger ages ...like when i fisrt start introducing my pups to gruel at about 3 1/2 weeks i let them out of the pen and will feed them in different areas of the house that they aren't fimialiar with..this helps in the long run as i know dogs that don't eat well on the road my pups seem to be right at home eating any where the bowl is set in front of them....I also introduce bird smells to them before the eyes are even open as a pup is only born with 2 senses and that is sense of touch and sense of smell
I raise my pups with a modified version of the New skeet method the art of raising a puppy..i was skepitcal at first when i was told of things they do...i tried them with 2 pups from a litter and with in 24 hours i did notice a difference.....
as for the test ...the test is to show the potetential way your pup will react to things training handling and general reactions to people places and things ..it is only to help better suit a dog wiht an owner...as pups that bite at a hand that is trying to do something will require a bit more then a pup that is compliant to everything that is being done...it doersn't mean that one will be better suited for trials over the other... there is a apptitude test in the volhards training for dummies book...both these books are german shepard breeders but there is alot of extremely useful information in them ...there are just something i skip like i do not train my young dogs to sit but that is one of the differences between the type of dogs i raise to what they raise
I raise my pups with a modified version of the New skeet method the art of raising a puppy..i was skepitcal at first when i was told of things they do...i tried them with 2 pups from a litter and with in 24 hours i did notice a difference.....
as for the test ...the test is to show the potetential way your pup will react to things training handling and general reactions to people places and things ..it is only to help better suit a dog wiht an owner...as pups that bite at a hand that is trying to do something will require a bit more then a pup that is compliant to everything that is being done...it doersn't mean that one will be better suited for trials over the other... there is a apptitude test in the volhards training for dummies book...both these books are german shepard breeders but there is alot of extremely useful information in them ...there are just something i skip like i do not train my young dogs to sit but that is one of the differences between the type of dogs i raise to what they raise
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"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
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"When I hear somebody talk about a horse or cow being stupid, I figure its a sure sign that the animal has outfoxed them." Tom Dorrance
If you feel like you are banging your head against the wall, try using the door.