Dog food 101, What are you feeding your dogs?

[SettersRus]

I would like to hear your opinion on the following article and hear what everyone else is feeding. I posted this as a reply in another topic but thought I would post in this area as well. It's quite educational! This is a good article on dog food. It was copied with permission. I spoke with the author and she mentioned a food that is not listed that is an outstanding food with a good price is Diamond Naturals. This is a fairly new food to the Diamond line and is a high quaility food. I have switched my Setters to Diamond Naturals Chicken and Rice and have noticed improvements over the Pro Plan I have fed for some time.

There is a wide variety of foods available for dogs on the market. And it is hard for owners to know which is best for their dog. Many “Grocery Store” foods are made of mostly fillers. It is always best to know what foods have the best ingredients before selecting a food for your dog. Here is a quick, handy reference for picking the best food for your pup.

Ingredients: With any dog food, the ingredients are listed on the bag or can. The ingredients are listed in the order of which they are most often used. For example, if the first ingredient is beef, that food is mostly beef. Many of the older, more popular brands, such as Pedigree, Purina and Alpo contain mostly ground yellow corn. Dogs cannot digest corn and it is used as a filler. Consider it to be like giving your kids cereal every night. A mostly corn diet will also cause your dog to digest the food quicker and produce more waste, which is why people using this food go through it so quickly. You want a food that is mostly meat and that has little to no corn or wheat at all. This way your dog will get full on smaller amounts of food and produce less waste. With any dog food, the first ingredient should be a meat or meat meal.

Wet or dry?: Dry food is recommended over canned or wet food. Dry food will help control tartar on your dog’s teeth and is also more healthy. No dog food company, no matter how good the quality, can do with wet food what they can do with dry. What this means is that wet food really has no nutritional quality. The only thing that usually comes from an all canned food diet is an over weight dog with bad teeth. However if you need to mix canned and dry food, a little is all right. Try to find a canned food that uses broth instead of water.

What is meal?: Meal is made by removing all moisture from the meat or grain. Keep in mind that meal is not necessarily a bad thing. In most cases, the ingredient is weighed after being turned into meal. Therefor, if a recipe calls for lamb meal, you are getting more meat as all that water that was removed would weigh more. For example, an ingredient list that reads ‘Chicken, corn meal, ...’ actually contains more corn, since the chicken still contained water when it was weighed and the corn did not. A list that reads ‘Chicken meal, rice, ...’ contains more chicken. A list that reads ‘Lamb, lamb meal, rice,’ is a good list!

What do they mean by “Organ Meat” or “By-Products”?: Most quality foods will use the liver in their food which is actually a healthy organ. However some low grade foods will use beaks, feet, intestines, etc. in their foods. Ask your local pet store which foods use which organs. Also keep in mind that while most organ meat is very nutritional, it is also higher in fat. If you’re dog is on a diet, you may want to stay away from organ meat.

Top recommended foods
These foods are in the order in which I would personally recommend them. This list is based only on my personal opinion and experience.

1.Innova
Innova dog food is an all natural food for dogs of all ages and sizes. They use a variety of ingredients including, turkey, chicken, cottage cheese, apples, carrots and herring. Innova gives dogs a healthy coat and antioxidants for a healthy system.

2. California Natural
CN is made by the same company that makes Innova, EVO, and Karma. CN is an all natural, human grade food that uses very little ingredients. The lamb and rice diet is especially good for dogs with bad allergies, dry skin or sensitive stomachs.

3.Wellness
Wellness is made by the same company that makes Old Mother Hubard biscuits. They use all natural and human grade ingredients. There is no corn, wheat or soy in their foods. Wellness seems to work especially well for small breed dogs.

4. Nutro Natural Choice
NC is a high quality food that uses no corn or wheat. They have a skin and coat guarantee on their food. Your dog’s waste will be smaller and easier to manage. NC is also great for joints and contains more glucosamine than any other brand on the market. It comes in a range of flavors and varieties including Large Breed, Large Breed Senior, Puppy, Lamb Meal and Rice, and High Energy.
NOTE: Nutro now makes Nutro Ultra, a holistic dog food. They use three different sources of protein, (Chicken, Lamb and Salmon) and use brown rice as a main carb source. Brown rice is one of the more easily digested grains used in pet foods. If you have an over weight dog, you may want to check out Nutro Ultra.

5. Nutro Max
Max is also made by Nutro although Natural Choice is their premium food. Max does contain corn but very small amounts. Max also comes in a variety of flavors.

6.Natural Balance
Natural Balance is a new food that uses a variety of protein sources such as chicken, lamb and duck. They have a hypo allergenic formula of duck and potato. No corn or wheat. They also carry a vegetarian formula. Natural Balance is formulated for all life stages.

7. Eukanuba
Eukanuba is produced by the IAMS company. It is a premium food and can there for be rather costly. Eukanuba has quality ingredients but does contain corn meal. Eukanuba is most often chosen by owners of premium performance dogs. (Breeders, Agility Trainers, etc.)

8. Nature’s Recipe
Nature’s Recipe can only be found in pet supply stores, or at most vets. They are a quality food that has many alternative recipes for allergenic dogs or dogs with sensitive stomachs. The Venison and Rice formula is popular with dogs with allergies. This food is good, but can be expensive.

9. IAMS
IAMS is not as much a premium food as Eukanuba, but it is still a good food all around. The first ingredient is meat and it does contain corn. IAMS is now conveniently located in grocery stores as well as pet supply stores. It is one of the few quality foods you can buy in grocery stores.

10. Pro Plan
Pro Plan is made by Purina and is their most high quality food. The ingredients are still not as good as some other foods, but the first ingredient is a meat. Purina also has a food sold in grocery stores called “Purina One”. Purina One and Pro Plan are basically the same food. The only difference is that Pro Plan is found only in specialty stores, where Purina One is found only in grocery stores.

11. Hills Science Diet
Hills is not as high quality a food as the above mentioned, but it is still better than most grocery store foods. Hills does use some questionable additives. Many people do swear by their special diets such as Sensitive Stomach, Oral Care, or Sensitive Skin. Hills boasts that it is the most recommended by vets. That is mostly because Veterinarian offices get paid to sell it.

[Devils Creek]

As I posted on another thread...

The trial dogs - Innova EVO - awesome food but expensive

The pet dogs - Pro Plan

[12 Volt Man]

The Lab pup gets Pro Plan Large Breed Puppy. In a few months I'll switch to Black Gold in the Black Bag.

I was feeding the Pointers Black Gold in the Red Bag through the hunting season and through the winter. Recently I switched to something that has made a nice difference. I have always had a hard time keeping weight on Cowboy. In three weeks, he looks better than he ever has. He has really bulked up.

The difference has been made with Black Gold in the Blue Bag.

24/20 High Energy is recommended for adult dogs with extreme activity levels, for dogs in competition, for finicky eaters, for dogs being worked in extremely cold weather or other adverse conditions or for show dogs that go off feed when traveling. Daily routine use without high daily activity is not recommended.

* Digestibility 90-92 %
* Metabolized Energy 2000 kcal/lb 431 kcal/cup 3803 kcal/kg
* Omega 3 & 6 Fatty Acids
* Added Vitamin C Energy Enhancer

Over 100 years experience with dogs and our professional nutritionist give us the edge in canine nutrition. You provide the training, home and love; let Black Gold provide the nutrition.

GUARANTEED ANALYSIS

* Moisture, maximum 12.0%
* Crude Protein, minimum 24.0%
* Crude Fat, minimum 20.0%
* Crude Fiber, maximum 3.5%

I started feeding 4 cups a day. When it warms up I'll cut back. The food comes in a 50 pound bag vs. the normal 40 pounder from Black Gold. It has a beef base rather than chicken. I had to call the local distributer to track some down. They don't stock it in the normal feed stores. It is too hot. He told me about a Lab that a vet owned. That dog gained 30 pounds in one month on this food. It's not for every dog, but it is working well on my high powered Pointers. They have nice solid stools and their energy level is up.

INGREDIENTS

Meat Meal, Corn Meal, Poultry Fat (Preserved with BHA, Citric Acid and Mixed Tocopherols-Source of Vitamin E), Ground Wheat, Brewer’s Rice, Corn Gluten Meal, Chicken By-product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp, Natural Poultry Flavoring, Potassium Chloride, Ground Flaxseed, Fish Meal, Salt, Brewer’s Dried Yeast, Choline Chloride, L-lysine, L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (Source of Vitamin C Activity), Zinc Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Zinc Oxide, Manganous Oxide, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Vitamin A Acetate, Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Calcium lodate, Sodium Selenite, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Menadione Sodium Bisulfate Complex (Vitamin K), Riboflavin Supplement (Vitamin B2), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Cobalt Carbonate and Folic Acid.

[markj]

I use PMI from our local feed strore. 20.00 a 50lb bag, no soy. Buy 6 get one free too. My dogs prefer this and dont really eat any other brand as well and tend to lose weight. I fill the feed buckets and keep them full, the dogs eat what they need and dont get fat on my place.

[ezzy333]

I have no idea where the original post came from but it is far from accurate. I don't know of a single food on the market that has a filler in them. There is no reason for any company to put one in. They are not making enough money to add something into the feed that serves no purpose and then pay frieght to ship it all over the country.

Corn is an excellent source of protien and carbs. It is digested by dogs just like it is with all of the animals we keep and feed. That is why it is in everything we buy. The same paragraph says in one place dogs can't digest it and then a sentence later says they digest it too fast.

In the wet or dry paragraph it says wet foods are worthless compared to dry but then says it produces overweight dogs? Worthless dog foods cause dogs to starve to death aand not get fat.

Meal has nothing to do with moisture. Meal is the physical form of the ingredient. It might be chunks, whole, meal, or liquid. those are all physical forms. A food that has chicken is thought to be better by most people than lamb. Beef might even be better. And by-products are used because they are in many cases more nutritional for a dog than just meat. Wild animals practically always eat the intestines and their contents along with the other innards and blood before eating the meat. Our dogs need the vegatable source protein and carbs along with the animal sources if we want to feed a healthy well balance feed to our animals.

And then after this article says no to vegatable source nutrition the very first one you recommend is Innova with apples and carrots listed as major ingrdients. Number 2 is all natural human grade food which a dog doesn't need as we all are aware of but it makes us feel good. We also know today that a dog being allergic to any food is extremely rare but since it is very expensive to test we just say they are and change feeds. However if they are, we need to test to find out what they are allergic to and take that out of the diet but there is no evidense that one ingredient is any better or worse than any other.

You are welcome to use what ever you like but more important is what your dog likes and what is available in your area. But you need to understand what the rest of us feed, even though they contain many ingredients that are listed as undesirable on your list are performing just as well. Our dogs are just as healthy and maybe even more so, they perform just as well as yours and are just as happy and content. In other words the list you put up is full of inaccuracies but if you find the food you like use it so your dog will be as well fed as the rest of the dogs in our world.

Ezzy

[OhioOnPoint]

I feed my dogs Purina Pro Plan. The dogs look healthy, act healthy, crap healthy.

There are many good foods out there, however.

I think it's funny that a lot of guys will argue over how good a food is for their dogs as they are choking down a bacon double cheesburger...

[SettersRus]

I think it's funny that a lot of guys will argue over how good a food is for their dogs as they are choking down a bacon double cheesburger...

So true Ohio,
I found the article and found it very interesting was given permission to post it. I am not a vet nor a nutritionist so I can not speak for the content. I agree with the fact that if your dogs are doing well on what you are feeding it should work fine. I recently made the switch to the Diamond Naturals and have seen noticeable improvements with my setters. Many years age I learned that Maximum that is sold at Wal-Mart was the exact same food as Eukanuba. I compared ingredients and they were exactly the same. My dogs were doing great on it until the package changed. They claimed on the package "same great food, just a new look" but after I noticed more waste to clean and their coats not as healthy I compared the ingredients with Eukanuba again and they were not the same anymore. I started trying to learn about dog food because I believed that I could find a quality dog food that worked well for my setters, without paying the high prices that so many high quality foods cost. I was going to start feeding the Eukanuba but began feeding Pro Plan after getting 17 or 18 free bags given to me by a customer that worked for Purina. I liked the food but my dogs coats just didn't seem as healthy as they had been in the past on the old Maximum (Eukanuba). The Diamond Naturals that I am feeding seems to be working well and the price is right. I appreciate your comment’s ezzy, what you say makes sense.

[shootist]

I am very pleased with Canidae.

Here is the ingredient list:

Chicken Meal, Turkey Meal, Brown Rice, White Rice, Lamb Meal, Chicken Fat (preserved with Mixed Tocopherols), Herring Meal, Flax Seed, Sun Cured Alfalfa Meal, Sunflower Oil, Chicken, Lecithin, Monocalcium Phosphate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Linoleic Acid, Rosemary Extract, Sage Extract, Dried Enterococcus Faecium, Dried Lactobacillus Acidophilus Fermentation Product, Dried Aspergillus Oryzae Fermentation Extract, Dried Bacillus Subtilis Fermentation Extract, Inulin (from Chicory root), Saccharomyces Cerevisiae Fermentation Solubles, Yucca Schidigera Extract, Mixed Tocopherols (source of Vitamin E), Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Manganese Amino Acid Chelate, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Cobalt Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin A Supplement, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Niacin, Thiamine Mononitrate (Vitamin B1), Riboflavin (source of B2), Beta Carotene, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (Vitamin B6), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, D-Biotin, Sodium Selenite, Papaya, Vitamin B12 Supplement.

As far as the meat versus meal thing, here is what Canidae says about it:

What does the real difference mean to your pets and you?

Meat
[Chicken & Lamb are 70% water and only 15% protein]
Pet food labels found in grocery and mass marketers like to use Chicken or Lamb to represent real meat. –(Containing 70% moisture). This leads you the consumer to believe that their product is meat based. Chicken or lamb meats are heavier than grains prior to cooking. The moisture contained in the meats (70%) is reduced by 2/3rds after the cooking process, leaving the total formula as a grain base food after processing.

vs.
Meal
[Chicken Meal and Lamb Meal are dry and 50% to 65% protein] meat protein!
Canidae Pet foods list Chicken Meal & Turkey meal as the first ingredients. Chicken, Turkey and Lamb meals are dry and are less than 10% moisture and contain 50% - 65% meat proteins. In processing the meat meals do not shrink below the grain weight, producing a true meat based formula for your carnivores.

AAFCO label rules require that, the heaviest to the lightest ingredients be the order on the guaranteed analysis panel, (with or without water content).

[djswizz]

Corn is an excellent source of protien and carbs.
Ezzy

Not true. Corn has no protein in it whatsoever. They may have amino acids (the building blocks of proteins) but pure protein does not exist in it. Sure it has carbs, but it also has many beneficial ingredients in it. Also, in response to the article, let's not give corn a bad rap for being a filler because it really is not unless its the first ingredient IMO... Having it in the ingredient list on a dog food does not mean the food is bad. I feed Black Gold Performance and my dog is doing amazing! Corn is #2 in the list. Here's a breakdown of corn:

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tnam ... ce&dbid=90

Also, I know this is a dog forum but I know that many of you do not eat as well as your dogs or exercise as much as them. Some of you have said things along these lines. I urge you, if you do not have a good diet or exercise regimen, pick one up. Run with your dog or even walk with them, research the foods that you eat like you research for your dogs. The time it takes you to read the new posts on the forum, you could be halfway done with walking your dog! Think about it!

[ezzy333]

Tyler,

Regular yellow feeding corn has approx 8 to 10% protien. However there are amny variations being planted to day. There are high Lycine, high sugar, high oil, and high starch varieties. But there is no corn or any other grain that does not contain protien. The amino acids are basic protiens that the animals use. If there are amino acids there is protien.

Ezzy

[Kurzhaar]

djswizz:

Animals do not have a Protein requirement. Rather there are distinct requirements for Amino Acids. There are Essential Aminos acids which must be supplied intact from feed/food and non-essential that can be synthesized from other Amino Acids.

Corn is an exceptional source of carbohydrates and is usually viewed as an energy source and the amino acid content is not considered substantial.

Jim

[Don]

Now after all this good feeding is done, who suplement's with half a ham sandwitch? How about peanut butter and jelly? Otis love's peanut butter and jelly sandwitches and he has a real soft spot for fresh oranges. So much for proper diet around here! Anybody got a dog that doesn't eat potato chip's? Pete had a fondness for jalapeno's! Lonesome's big thing was apples. Lefty liked burrito's really well but they gave him gas.

Anybody know what ever happened to Gaines? They had a huge research facility in the midwest and actually fed their own dog's the food they made. I think Purina does too but wouldn't swear to it. Wonder how many other manufacture's actually maintain a large testing facility to test their dog's? Probally not many as about the only thing they might be able to tell is weather or not the dog's eat the stuff!

[Chaingang]

We'll Don, I have two knuckleheads that are partial to cantaloupe. In fact when they see me eating the cantaloupe, I look over and both of them have a string of drool hanging half way to the floor!!

[original mngsp]

My GSP is a carrot fanatic. We buy those mini-peeled carrots in a 4# zip loc bag. He is so keyed in that if you open anything with a ziploc in the house he comes running.

[bondoron]

As for what our dogs will eat. As you all know my dog just had Sponge Bob removed from her, so I don't think she is too picky.

[original mngsp]

As you all know my dog just had Sponge Bob removed from her

When mine was younger he had a turtle beanie baby removed from him. I have tried those stuff animals and they don't taste that good to me!!

[Theresa]

Innova. I also supplement with raw, meaty bones as often as I find them at the butchers. I use beef rib bones -both meat and bone in good ratio. Beef neck bones work well also. Any other beef bone has no meat and just wears the teeth down IMHO.

I have also fed raw chicken necks before, but prefer a mix of kibble and beef bones.

[anne]

I feed raw and will never go back to full time kibble. I do put them on kibble when they are with other people traveling though.
I'll put raw-fed dog poops up against kibble poops any day. Small, compact and hard. When mine are with other people they are astounded at the poos.

Re carbs in dog food:
"carbohydrates provide an economical source of energy in the diet of dogs."
"although data are unavailable for the dog, it should be recognized that inclusion of large amounts of fiber in the diet may adversely affect nutrient availability"
- National Research Council's, Nutrient Requirement of Dogs
http://www.nap.edu/books/0309034965/html/

Dogs have short digestive tracts and are unlike herbivores that have enlarged digestive tracts to allow microbial digestion of fiber. A shorter digestive tract is advantageous to scavengers like dogs -- and the reason why many do fine with carbs/fiber in their food. Many raw feeders do not feed any grains at all and the only sources of carbs and fiber come thru a little bit of vegetable material which mimicks the guts of prey animals.

[ezzy333]

Anne,

Carbs and fiber are two seperate things and have no relationship with each other. Meat has fiber in it as does most feed substances. Most mature plants have a lot of fiber in their stalks but very little in the grain or seed or leaves in comparison. Young tender plants are lower and that is why they are tender. Same is true with meat. Older stronger tissue is higher in fiber.

Dogs as well as other common animals need some fiber but their main needs are protien, carbs, and fat. It takes a well balanced diet to provide their needs.

I have never determined the health of an animal by looking at their poo, as you say. And I can't ever think of anyone who was looking at my dogs telling me what great poop they have. The waste may on occasion indicate an upset digestive problem or that the dog is getting to much fat or even more feed than it needs but I look at the dog when determining their health.

Meat is good, raw or cooked. You do have more chance to pickup unwanted parasites, bacteria, or other problems with raw but the dogs like it and it is a great treat and if you are careful to not upset the balance of the ration it is a good supplement when the weather is cold or the dog is being worked hard.

Remember the dogfood companies hire the best educated people in the field of dog nutrition, have the best in research farms and labortories so they can provide you with the best food possible for your pet. You need to think about that when you decide to feed something completely different and think you are doing your dog a favor.

Ezzy

[anne]

Carbs and fiber are not separate. Fiber is a type of carb. (See link from Harvard for a good basic article on carbs http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionso ... rates.html) The differences we need to worry about is high fiber carbs and low fiber carbs. Processed grains/cereals are low fiber and excess is not healthy for people or dogs. High fiber carbs like in vegetables are healthy. Insoluable carbs (like Metamucil) moves things thru the gut and therefore affects nutrient availablility. Too much makes things move too fast and a dogs do not get the most out of their food. The best source of carbs are unprocessed complex carbs like in raw vegetables. The worst type of carb is what you see in dog food, ie, processed cereals.

There are 2 problems with the scientists that work for dog food companies. For one, companies are in business to make money and to be accountable to stock holders. Why else would dog foods like Beneful be around? The second problem is that scientists measure fat, protein, etc, more on a molecular basis and do not consider the source or quality.

[Kurzhaar]

The second problem is that scientists measure fat, protein, etc, more on a molecular basis and do not consider the source or quality.

Where do you people come up with all of this nonsense!!!!!!!!! This could not be further from the truth.

Jim

[ezzy333]

Anne,

You just heard from a man with a Doctors degree in nutrition and I have worked all my life with nutrition, quality control, and all phases of procurement and manufacturing and you are way out in left field someplace and like Kurzhaar, I too wonder where you come up with these type of ideas. There is absolutely no real fact in what you are saying. I don't mind at all that you think what you do but surely hope other people are not influenced by it. There are people on here that really do want to know about dogfood and we have tried hard to provide accurate information so they can make up their minds as to what they want to feed. We needs to keep it that way.

If you want to learn some of the facts about dogfood ask and I will quaranteee we can provide you with accurate info and would be glad to do it and help you understand the whole process.

Ezzy

[anne]

Is it not true then that protein content for example is measure by a pretty standard method that measures nitrogen?

I am not a PhD in nutrition but it seems like a given to me that when scientists evaluate animal feed, they must rely on biochemical/molecular analysis. How else would it be done?

Also what about nutrient bioavailabilty of poor quality foods? The label may say, __% crude protein, but how good is it when bioavailability is unmeasured? Is it not therefore true that just because a dog food label indicates __% crude protein that it cannot be compared bag to bag, and further, it is not that the analysis is wrong, it is not looking at the big picture since in the lab protein levels are measured at the most basic of levels?

No real fact in what I am saying, really?? Is not fiber a type of carb, for example? Is what I said about processed carbs incorrect, as another example? I don't mind being corrected, but you are saying that I'm way out there and babbling nonsense so if the intent is to educate as you say, then I don't find Kuzhaar's post very educational.

Convince me to change to a commercial diet. To me, saying that there are great scientists working for dog food companies is not enough.... Going back to the Beneful example, I assume that Beneful meets AAFCO requirements and I'm sure that there are dogs that do just fine on it. But that doesn't mean taht the quality is the same just because Beneful meets requirements like some other brand does. If Beneful had a guaranteed analysis profile on its bag that matched some other brand, but with different ingredients, would you still say that the feed was equal in quality?

[Casper]

Just a side note

I'll put raw-fed dog poops up against kibble poops any day. Small, compact and hard. When mine are with other people they are astounded at the poos.

I am not sure of the facts to back this but I remeber reading that stool size can cause minor problems with dogs.

That problem being the anal glands. If the stool is to small than every time to dog empties out it does not stimulate the gland. Although it is only a minor expression this done 2-3 times a day should keep the gland from needing to be expressed.

I have a lab that has small stools and her anal glands need to be expressed regularly (once a month to every other month).

FWIW

[Theresa]

I can only add to this discussion this tidbit that I recall from when Solid Gold first came out on the market years ago

Please don't quote me, but I will quote what I can recall exactly!

It said that the natural state of poo... as like in the wild when you look at wolf scat.. that the normal state of poo is not solid and hard and easy to pick up (ie a marketing thing from the dog food companies) but rather the natural state of poo is "soft and plop-able" (quote that part.) Soft and plop-able.....

So I figure if it ain't squirtin' like from a hose or shooting out like bullets, my dogs poo is just fine.......

[stonegripper]

There went a few minutes of my life...reading this post.

Real quick: Eukanuba is my dog food of choice. It makes my dogs look good, act right, and hunt well.

Some of this info posted should be labeled "opinion". I appreciate stauch support for facts, but come on, folks....

[Kurzhaar]

Convince me to change to a commercial diet.

Anne:

I don't care what you feed or what anyone on the forum feeds. I do care when you make untrue comments about the manner in which feeds are produced.

To claim that feed manufacturers only care about the nutrient content of ingredients is a blantant falsehood!!!!! Quality is one of the most important criteria for ingredient selection. If it were not then we would only feed the cheapest ingredients possible, regardless of the impact on the animal.

Jim

[big steve46]

There is no valid reason to put Ferrous Sulfate in any human or animal formula as it is poorly assimilated. However, it is used to save money over other types of iron. Generally, I support the commercial formulas but that is one of my pet peeves, and I do have a degree in nutrition.

[anne]

I did indulge in a little hyperbole with my comment about dog food companies and quality but still stand by what I think is common sense that dog food companies are for-profit. Most dogs don't need "the best" so IMO it's always a balancing act between good results and affordability to the consumer.

I am new here so don't get a lot of the dynamics here but I am disappointed that my questions above were not answered. I definitely get the impression ("where do you people....") that I have somehow been lumped into "one of those" raw feeding fanatics or something. I actually am very interested in how the guarateed analysis is done and how it's reported on dog food bags.[/i]

[Theresa]

Hey Anne!

I do think there are as many opinions on dog foods as there are breeds - and there is no ONE right way. I am told Ol' Roy is made from recycled donuts from bakeries (don't quote me, I can't tell you WHERE I heard it!) but if you feed it and your dogs perform well and look good on it and stay sound - then it works for you, and that is all you should care about - JMHO!

This link may be of interest to you:

http://www.dogfoodproject.com/index.php?page=main

I thought about the RAW thing last year when there was the Diamond recall, and again when a friend who fed Kirkland Chicken & Rice lost a dog this year; tests could not conclude a thing, but all her dogs had some gastrointestinal thing and once she switched to a home made diet (I belive she is grinding chicken necks for 20 dogs!) all problems resolved.

Bottom line? We all want to do right by our dogs, and sometimes when you state your opinion so strong it sounds as if those who don't do it your way are in the wrong. ( I am sure you didn't mean it that way.)

I will answer one of your questions; why are foods like Beneful around? Because consumers want it. Now, funny story - in conformation training class I saw some lovely V's - gol where they purty. And so I asked what they were fed on - Beneful. The dogs looked great! Funny thing too -I know of rat terriers that started to have seizures when they were switched to Beneful (the red food dye was the believed culprit) - so I really think that when feeding any one dog, that you have to feed the food that makes that particular dog thrive. Beneful, ground chicken necks.. or Innova Kibble even

[anne]

Theresa,

Thanks for your response. For the record I do not think kibble or commercial food is bad. My dogs are on it for convenience when traveling or with other people.

Re Beneful. My question wasn't why it's around.... (The different shapes and colors sure are pretty and the name sounds healthy ) but... more on the issue of the ingredient list being less than optimal where the guaranteed analysis may be the same or close to the same as a superior brand. Beneful is made by Purina and Purina being a big reputable company has scientists there too, and Beneful meets AAFCO requirements.... Do you see what I'm getting at? A bag analysis or just knowing that there are good scientists is not a good argument (for ME) to think that I am getting the "best possible food for my pet" and I have indeed thought about this a lot and do feel I am "doing my dog a favor" by feeding raw. I was hoping for a more productive discussion than what I got...

Bottom line, I am like everyone else, I try to make an informed decision, some of it based on fact, some, yes, "gut feeling" but mostly results on my own dogs.. stonegripper said Euk makes his dogs look good, act right and hunt well. I feel the same about raw with my dogs. If I came across too strong, I will apologize for offending anyone, but I feel strongly about what I feed just like everyone else and don't feel I was being more "pushy" about than anyone else. Suffice to say, 7 years feeding raw and I'm VERY happy with the results.

Thanks.
Anne

[Theresa]

Anne, can you share your diet? I don't mind raw meat, but my hubby gets the willies when I feed the cat a chicken neck and the cat drags it across the kitchen floor

I have heard many, many people say RAW is for them! I have heard just the same number swear by whatever brand kibble it is because they had to have a whole bone removed from the belly of their dog. I know many successful kennels feed Purina products; I know of other successful kennels that feed a really fancy and expensive brand I cain't even pronounce!

RAW works for you - so tell me about it, what you do to make it, what recipie, etc. Maybe it would be better posted as a seperate thread or added on to an existing thread too.

[SeventhSon]

I was told to try Black Gold, but I grabbed the wrong bag and ended up getting Solid Gold MMillennia Beef & Barley.
I started Maggie on it this morning, so we'll see how it goes.

[ezzy333]

Sure wish I had known Beneful was a bad feed before I started my dog on it. Strange thing is he did well and liked it. I bought it because it was available any place in the country and that made it the best choice. It did everything I thought it would and everything it was supposed to and the results were excellent.

Ezzy

[anne]

I've had one of my dogs on Kasco at a trainers. Didn't care for the ingredient list and didn't like the once a day feeding but she did fine. I think it's actually important that a dog can do well on different kinds of food. So if I had great results on Beneful and didn't feel I could be "doing better" (subjective "doing better") then that's great.

Theresa, I feed mostly chicken as a staple, wings, necks and backs. I also feed turkey necks and occasionally beef, eggs and also ground whole rabbit. I don't grind my other stuff, I'm too lazy. Once every couple months I buy vegetables and grind them and freeze, I feed a couple heaping spoonfuls a day usually. I often give oatmeal, rice, quinoa, maybe 1/4 cup. I will often give yogurt or a probiotic supplement. Sometimes some good fish oil. My mornings are usually just the raw meaty bones, throw them in the bowl (for the sloppy eaters, they go outside) and the PM meal has some of the other stuff in it, but I don't stress about having it perfect every time. That's the gist of my routine.

[Theresa]

Anne, isn't the turkey skin bad? Causes pancreatitis (so they say, every thanksgiving.)

I know many who feed road kill (fresh!) with excellent results. And others who feed venison -they hunt and fill their freezers with venison and their show dogs look great!

[anne]

The turkey necks I buy doesn't have skin on them. (Anything overly fatty I believe is a risk for pancreatitis.)

[Kurzhaar]

[quote]"Theresa"]Anne, isn't the turkey skin bad? Causes pancreatitis (so they say, every thanksgiving.)
[quote]

The pancreatitis is NOT caused by the turkey skin, but rather by the sudden increase of fat in the digestive system. The gut is not adapted to the high fat and therefore the pancreas is over stimulated which may cause pancreatitis.

Jim

[Theresa]

"The pancreatitis is NOT caused by the turkey skin, but rather by the sudden increase of fat in the digestive system. The gut is not adapted to the high fat and therefore the pancreas is over stimulated which may cause pancreatitis. "

Holy cow - I been giving my pitbull the extra pat of butter from my toast! Looks like I been lucky and need to quit that!

Thanks for this!

[SeventhSon]

One of my co-workers was telling me that she feeds her 2 dogs cooked chicken.
I don't know thing one about feeding dogs anything but kibble, but I was under the impression that cooked meat wasn't good for dogs.
Is that true or a misunderstanding on my part?

[ezzy333]

Cooked meat is fine. The only problem I see is you upset the balance of the feed if they are eating a lot of meat and not enough kibble to provide all of the other nutrients the dog needs.

Ezzy