Page 1 of 1
Dog Feeding
Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:13 am
by BlessedGirl
My Red Setter puppy, Indy, is 7 months old now. She is very active like the typical hunting dog pup. Indy's roughly 38 lbs (her mom is about 42 full grown and dad is 60, I think) and gets approximately 4 cups of food a day, but is showing ribs. Don't think she looks ideal weight for her breed. Having never had a setter before, I'm not sure what their body condition is supposed to be at this age, and does it mean she needs more food or what?
How much would you feed on average to an active pup like her?
Thanks!
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 10:43 am
by art hubbard
What kind of food are you feeding her?
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 11:35 am
by polmaise
quality of content rather than quantity .........I'm out on any advice, if it turns out like naming brands of food on the market. The size of the cup is also relevant !!No need to delete surely? . Unless it's a Mug , a Mug is bigger than a Cup in my book . Then again, some books are bigger than others .
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 12:01 pm
by Garrison
Showing some rib at 7 months of age is pretty typical, ideal for a setter in my book. Healthy active and fit is what should be the goal with a bird dog. A good measure of that is, good coat, well muscled, with the last couple ribs showing and not too much hip showing. This is where I try to keep my dogs. Cups and calories are different between brands so mileage varies when asking “how much should I feed?”. A good 30/20 allows you to feed a bit less by volume. At her weight compared to her dam, it sounds she is right on track.
Any pictures?
Garrison
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 6:09 am
by Tim Tufts
I've always told our customers that their bird dogs should all look like Donovan Bailey. . All muscle very little fat.
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 9:35 pm
by BlessedGirl
Yes, Garrison. For lack of a recent picture, this is her last month. What do you people think?
She's still thin and rib cage is showing.
She gets Natures Domain Organic Dog food. The dogs seem to have a lot of energy and my other dog who is pretty active (1 year old) doesn't seem skinny... different breeds though. I haven't had any problems with the food so far, although I can't rule it out as a possibility.
I used a dog food calculator last month when I realized she needed more food. It said 3 3/4 cups but I've been feeding more. The calculator took into account her activity level and kcal/cup (standard measuring cup).
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 10:19 pm
by Garrison
Wow, great looking pup! She does look like she could use a tiny bit more, but not a whole bunch for her age. I would much rather see my pup on the thin side than the chunky side.
The Natures Domain I am sure is a great feed for what it is intended for “Adult Maintenance” and judging by the protein/fat ratio, probably that of a pretty sedentary lifestyle. You are driving a sports car now, and she is in the stage of her life where she is requiring more octane than at any point other than nursing pups. I would shoot for something that has an AAFCO statement that says for “Growth or All Life Stages”. You will find the majority of field bred dogs doing what they were bred to do in the field are being fed a 30/20 ration or close to it. It will allow her to eat less, get more calories from the higher fat (which increases the ability work longer and harder) , have sufficient protein for growth and recovery from exercise (reduce injury) and stay more solid.
The only dog food calculator that works is keeping an eye on your pup and putting your hands on the dog. Metabolisms can vary greatly, between dogs who are doing similar work. Age, housing, weather, activity level in and out of the kennel all change things.
Garrison
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 8:01 am
by Dakotazeb
Is there any reason you are feeding an organic and grain free food? I see that this formula has 22% protein and 12% fat. That is awful low for an active dog. Personally I believe that organic and grain free dog foods are way over rated. Plus you are paying a premium price for that food. You do realize that there have been some heart issues in dogs on grain-free foods. I think a food like Purina ProPlan Sport 30/20 would serve you better plus you could probably feed less and get better results due to the higher protein and fat content. This food only has 336 k/cals per cup. PPP Sport 30/20 has 484 k/cals per cup. I feel there are a lot better food options for you out there.
All this being said, your dog looks great in the pic. Maybe just a tad on the thin side but nothing I would be overly concerned about.
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 9:14 am
by slistoe
There is nothing wrong with the condition of your dog. Her coat looks good and she isn't gant. Ribs showing is far, far better than smooth sided. IMO you are spending extra money needlessly on that food unless there is a medical reason why you would feed grain free. As Garrison says, there is no calculator that can tell how much to feed any individual dog.
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Sat Nov 27, 2021 10:27 am
by art hubbard
In full agreement with Garrison and Dakotazeb!
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:20 am
by BlessedGirl
Thanks for the advice, Garrison! You explained it so clearly. It all makes sense. I agree on the feeding calculator, but notwithstanding I needed some sort of ballpark number to know how much food to feed her. I never fed such a dog before and never fed a dog in my life that needed so much food! lol
Dakotazeb, thanks for bringing that up. Made me think about it. No, I currently have no compelling reason to feed her grain-free. I never researched grain-free vs. grain dog food, so I wasn't aware of the health issues you mentioned. Corn-free would be more important in my book, because usually it's GMO unless certified otherwise.
As far as organic, it depends on your viewpoint. The organic blueberry farm next door has guys spray their field while dressed in moon suit-like attire, riding inside a tractor cab. Perhaps it is all pure and innocent, but they don't leave a favorable impression. A lot of stuff is just politics when you get to the bottom of it. On the other hand, there's the dairy that can't dehorn calves with caustic paste because it's not organic. I prefer organic, but nowadays it's hard to tell what's truly organic and what's not, so as long as I can trust the food I'm feeding, it isn't that big of an issue. I'll quit chasing this rabbit for now.
Alrighty, well I guess we'll have to finish up our few bags of Nature's Domain and find some food that'll suite her activity level better. I'm glad Indy's not too skinny. I started adding a lil more food in there, but I guess tend to underfeed... I weighed her again and she's 42 lbs so I guess she'll be bigger than her momma.
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:47 pm
by Garrison
BlessedGirl wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:20 am
Thanks for the advice, Garrison! You explained it so clearly. It all makes sense. I agree on the feeding calculator, but notwithstanding I needed some sort of ballpark number to know how much food to feed her. I never fed such a dog before and never fed a dog in my life that needed so much food! lol
Dakotazeb, thanks for bringing that up. Made me think about it. No, I currently have no compelling reason to feed her grain-free. I never researched grain-free vs. grain dog food, so I wasn't aware of the health issues you mentioned. Corn-free would be more important in my book, because usually it's GMO unless certified otherwise.
As far as organic, it depends on your viewpoint. The organic blueberry farm next door has guys spray their field while dressed in moon suit-like attire, riding inside a tractor cab. Perhaps it is all pure and innocent, but they don't leave a favorable impression. A lot of stuff is just politics when you get to the bottom of it. On the other hand, there's the dairy that can't dehorn calves with caustic paste because it's not organic. I prefer organic, but nowadays it's hard to tell what's truly organic and what's not, so as long as I can trust the food I'm feeding, it isn't that big of an issue. I'll quit chasing this rabbit for now.
Alrighty, well I guess we'll have to finish up our few bags of Nature's Domain and find some food that'll suite her activity level better. I'm glad Indy's not too skinny. I started adding a lil more food in there, but I guess tend to underfeed... I weighed her again and she's 42 lbs so I guess she'll be bigger than her momma.
I base what food I buy for my dogs on longterm proven results and a good safety record, prior to any ingredient exclusion exercises. Of what I have fed my dogs, I have had the best results (good coat, good energy, keeping weight on through the season) with food inclusive of corn and chicken/poultry by-products as two of the main ingredients up near the top of the list. There is plenty of research and years of results to support this anecdotal finding.
Myself and my family, well we eat much different than most Americans and our dogs. We are mostly plant based, with wild fish and game that I harvest sparingly mixed in. We also own a small organic Avocado farm and grow many of our own organic vegetables, I’m a big fan of healthy eating. But we are people and they are dogs, with very different needs, lifespans and diseases. What they thrive on and require, is very different than us humans.
Garrison
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:04 pm
by BlessedGirl
That's interesting. Well, glad you shared your experience on that. I learn something new every day I guess! I really haven't much experience feeding dogs compared to a lot of you all on here so it's good to hear what you all have found works.
Sounds like you guys have it made down there.
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:22 pm
by BlessedGirl
So I'm curious, If standard adult dog food isn't high enough in protein and fat for active sporting dogs, but puppy food
is quite high, why not just feed puppy food to them? Is there something in it that isn't good for long-term feeding of adult dogs, or what? Maybe it sounds like a silly question, but it's an honest one, nevertheless.
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:10 pm
by Garrison
They are usually quite similar, and in the case of “All Life Stages”, they are meant for both. Some puppy kibble come in smaller size kibble, some add a little extra DHA and some adjust the protein, fat, calcium and phosphorus levels for large breed dogs. Some performance feeds cover all of the above.
Why wouldn’t most feed puppy kibble instead of a performance food? The performance food is usually cheaper per pound and available in larger bags.
You would be hard pressed to find many sporting dogs in professional kennels being fed something different from the rest of their kennel mates, regardless of age and the bag surely will not say puppy on it.
Garrison
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:09 pm
by BlessedGirl
Garrison wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:10 pm
They are usually quite similar, and in the case of “All Life Stages”, they are meant for both. Some puppy kibble come in smaller size kibble, some add a little extra DHA and some adjust the protein, fat, calcium and phosphorus levels for large breed dogs. Some performance feeds cover all of the above.
Why wouldn’t most feed puppy kibble instead of a performance food? The performance food is usually cheaper per pound and available in larger bags.
You would be hard pressed to find many sporting dogs in professional kennels being fed something different from the rest of their kennel mates, regardless of age and the bag surely will not say puppy on it.
Garrison
So you mean the main reason is price then?
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:12 pm
by Garrison
AAFCO classifies dog food by recognized life stages:
gestation/lactation
growth
all life stages
maintenance
The first three are usually one in the same. An athletic dog that is being regularly worked, especially a pup requires more calories, protein and fat, they should be fed something other than adult maintenance. Adult maintenance is designed for a typical house pet. Feeding a 30/20 dog food, designed for all life stages will cover all bases for a bird dog from start to finish.
To your question, yes a 40-50lb bag of performance/all life stages feed can usually be had for less per lb than puppy food which usually is in smaller packaging. In many cases they are essentially the same feed in different bags for different prices, with the possible exception of large breed puppy food.
Garrison
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 1:15 am
by BlessedGirl
Makes a lot of sense.
Thanks for the further explanation!
Re: Dog Feeding
Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2021 9:38 am
by weimdogman
Blessed Girl , if your dog was a adult I would say she is a little thin. She is a growing puppy and looks good. As for the the food issue go get a bag of better food like the 30/20 ppp and start feeding it with your organic stuff mixed in. You still use up the food you have but dog gets a better diet sooner.
You post some good questions and good pictures☺