GSP less active, change food?

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nmorris
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GSP less active, change food?

Post by nmorris » Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:22 am

Hey everyone, was hoping to get some opinions from those with more experience. If it has been covered somewhere please point me in the right direction!
I have a 4yo male GSP, and as of late he has been getting less exercise than he always had before. We have a 1yo baby and another on the way, and with myself working on the road my wife hasn't gotten out with him as much. He is not neglected by any means, just less than what he's used to. As a result, he has gained some weight. We reduced his food to 3 cups/day of PPP Active 27/17, but he seems to be always hungry. I don't want to starve him, but also don't want to feed him too much of a food made for dogs that receive more activity.
Any thoughts on if there is a good food I can feed him more of so that he is less hungry, but wont put on the weight? He is my first GSP so I am relatively inexperienced, and any advice is appreciated. It's very possible I'm going about this completely the wrong way.
Thanks in advance!
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Cicada
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Re: GSP less active, change food?

Post by Cicada » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:59 am

Is he fixed? 4year old is when they start to put on weight. If you are feeding him twice a day try changing over to just one evening feeding.
Bottom line he needs to be run every day but in your situation (2kids) that must be tough.


Grant

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Re: GSP less active, change food?

Post by Garrison » Thu Dec 03, 2020 12:11 pm

3 cups is a pretty standard amount of feed and 27/17 is a maintenance type feed in my book. If you cut the fat and protein level back any more, yes you can feed a bit more, but when it comes time to start working the dog for the season it takes longer to get them in shape.

I feed my dogs 30/20 year round and up the amount when they are getting worked more. I would be willing to bet that he is not acting hungry, but rather feeding time is where he is getting his stimulation. If you go exercise the dog and feed him the same amount he won’t act hungry because he is content.

Part of owning a bird dog is getting them a proper amount of exercise, that is not a walk around the neighborhood on a leash. They need to be properly worked in some fashion at a minimum twice a week. I use a roading harness and a bike, or free run them 3 days a week year round. At this point in the season we are adding egg yolks and oil to try and keep weight on them.

Tough situation being on the road with a wife that has her hands full. Any older neighborhood kids you could teach and pay to road a dog? I have family members who have had good luck training a dog to run on a treadmill when the snow is too heavy to run them. Dogs will drag you down to the basement and jump on the machine and wait for you to turn it on.

You have an exercise issue that needs to be sorted out, not a feeding problem. Dog and wife will both be happier if the dog gets exercise.

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Re: GSP less active, change food?

Post by shags » Thu Dec 03, 2020 2:12 pm

If he's doing well on that formula, just feed less once a day. If he gets trouble with bile with his stomach empty for 24 hours, use part of the daily ration at the 12 hour mark; just a handful will do.

I've found it easier on the dogs to cut back gradually so they're at the proper amount in about 10-14 days. You can always add a low calorie food like canned green beans or pumpkin to help him feel fuller. Don't forget to account for treats when you adjust his meal amount.

My dogs are on PPP 30/20 all the time, all their lives. Only the amount fed changes to keep them at a good weight.

I sure wish I had someone to do that with me :wink:

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Re: GSP less active, change food?

Post by Steve007 » Thu Dec 03, 2020 8:42 pm

nmorris wrote:
Thu Dec 03, 2020 7:22 am
As a result, he has gained some weight. We reduced his food to 3 cups/day of PPP Active 27/17, but he seems to be always hungry. I don't want to starve him, but also don't want to feed him too much of a food made for dogs that receive more activity.
Any thoughts on if there is a good food I can feed him more of so that he is less hungry, but wont put on the weight?
Here's a link, but there are all sorts of diet foods that are entirely healthy for dogs and will assist with weight loss. You don't need to be giving your dog that kind of high-powered stuff if he's not working it out. It's easy to say "feed less", but that's a shallow answer and as you noted, many dogs will get desperate for more food. You can go to the supermarket and get "Fit and Trim". The big companies have huge numbers of canine dietitian specialists on staff, and the theory that any of the major brands are going to put out something that isn't good for your dog is simply false. On the other hand, feeding him too much of a high-protein high-fat food when he is getting less work will definitely not be good for him.

https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/best-dog ... dog-foods/

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Re: GSP less active, change food?

Post by Garrison » Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:57 pm

Taken from an article from Pheasants Forever, from an interview with Purina. If you have plans to use the dog for what he was intended, you may want to take their advice or switch the dog to a high fat diet two months prior to any pre-season conditioning. It takes 8 weeks for them to start utilizing the high fat diet. But again, what you are feeding is not exactly high octane. A little exercise/mental stimulation goes a long ways when it comes to having a balanced mind. I would also seek nutritional advice from credible sources, not dogfoodanalysis.com type sites.


Feed the Same Food Year-Round …

“Hardworking bird dogs have an increased metabolism due to their physical activity, increasing their need for energy,” says Purina Research Nutritionist Brian Zanghi, PhD. “Environmental conditions also impact a dog’s energy requirements.”

Feeding a high-protein/high-fat diet year-round, reducing the amount fed in the off-season, will maximize training and conditioning. It allows your dog to have a higher fat metabolism and higher oxygen capacity, helping to increase his or her metabolic capacity and thus generating energy. A quality performance food, such as Purina Pro Plan SPORT Performance 30/20 Formula, is recommended for bird dogs. In fact, feeding dogs less of a nutrient-dense food helps them maintain ideal body condition.

“The ultimate goal is to optimize performance,” Zanghi says. “This means feeding a food containing key nutrients in an optimal balance to provide optimal benefits, enabling dogs to work longer and perform better. Food can metabolically prime our dogs to promote optimal endurance.”

… Adjusting the Amount to Maintain Ideal Body Condition

Dogs should be fed for ideal body condition, and the amount of food fed should be adjusted to maintain ideal body condition. To determine your dog’s body condition, start by feeling his or her ribs. Place both thumbs on the dog’s backbone and spread your hands across the rib cage. You should be able to easily feel the ribs and view the dog’s waist behind the ribs. Additionally, an abdominal tuck should be apparent from the side.
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Re: GSP less active, change food?

Post by Garrison » Thu Dec 03, 2020 10:20 pm

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nmorris
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Re: GSP less active, change food?

Post by nmorris » Fri Dec 04, 2020 6:54 am

Thanks for the replies everybody. For those that asked, he was fixed at around 1.5 years old. We free run him minimum twice per week, more when we can though that has been difficult lately. It sounds like this may still the best food to feed him and I may need to just adjust the amount and feeding times to something more suitable. The treadmill idea could work as well.

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Re: GSP less active, change food?

Post by Dakotazeb » Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:26 am

I think you need to adjust the amount your feeding to keep his weight where you want it. Some dogs, like yours, appear to be hungry 24/7. Don't give in, he won't starve. Not sure how many times a day you are feeding but if more than once I would try feeding him just once a day in the evening. I've been told by a couple of vets that even though the dog is getting the same amount of food they have seen it's easier to control their weight by feeding once a day. Good luck.
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Re: GSP less active, change food?

Post by Steve007 » Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:37 pm

Dakotazeb wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:26 am
I've been told by a couple of vets that even though the dog is getting the same amount of food they have seen it's easier to control their weight by feeding once a day. Good luck.
Hard to know why that would be, unless they believe the dog absorbs the nutrients less well when fed once a day. But I'll bet you'll find the same vets would tell you that feeding twice a day will reduce the possibility of gastric torsion (bloat).

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Re: GSP less active, change food?

Post by Dakotazeb » Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:38 pm

Steve007 wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:37 pm

Hard to know why that would be, unless they believe the dog absorbs the nutrients less well when fed once a day. But I'll bet you'll find the same vets would tell you that feeding twice a day will reduce the possibility of gastric torsion (bloat).
I don't think so. The majority of trainers and field trialers believe in feeding once a day. A vet has never voiced any concern with bloat when feeding once a day. In fact, I've never heard of feeding once a day causing bloat. Dogs run cooler and stronger on an empty stomach. Usually the main cause of bloat is feeding too soon after strenuous activity.
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Re: GSP less active, change food?

Post by Garrison » Fri Dec 04, 2020 4:11 pm

Dakotazeb wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:38 pm
Steve007 wrote:
Fri Dec 04, 2020 12:37 pm

Hard to know why that would be, unless they believe the dog absorbs the nutrients less well when fed once a day. But I'll bet you'll find the same vets would tell you that feeding twice a day will reduce the possibility of gastric torsion (bloat).
I don't think so. The majority of trainers and field trialers believe in feeding once a day. A vet has never voiced any concern with bloat when feeding once a day. In fact, I've never heard of feeding once a day causing bloat. Dogs run cooler and stronger on an empty stomach. Usually the main cause of bloat is feeding too soon after strenuous activity.
I have always read the same, bloat is a mystery, but it does seem to have an association with feeding too soon before or after strenuous exercise.

I have always found that when I switched my young dogs/pups from multiple times a day feedings to once in the evening they become much more regular and their stools firm up. I have no scientific evidence besides the pooper scooper in the morning, but I believe a dog that sleeps the night with a full belly utilizes it’s food better than a dog that has half of its fuel with activity of any sort to follow, hence the better stool. Even if limited to movement in the kennel.

Up to a point anyway, because I have also read that before Ames some of the trainers want to put some weight on their big going dogs so start feeding them twice a day in the weeks ahead. I imagine because a dog’s stomach can only handle so much by volume and they are adding more volume to the ration, not splitting up their current.

To the original poster, Dr. Tim who’s life’s work is dog nutrition posted on this forum some years back, that he would never feed any dog of any breed and any age less than very close to the protein/fat ratio that you are currently feeding.

I do think we probably think too hard about this part of the birddog equation, because we also have very experienced members with successful dogs in competition who have free fed their dogs for many years with no ill effects.

Garrison
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