Fat/protein recommendation

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Spike
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Fat/protein recommendation

Post by Spike » Wed May 20, 2015 10:49 am

I just found this article in my American Hunter. It's probably old news here but I found it both interesting and confirmation of the "dogs need fat for endurance" concept.

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pato y codoniz
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Re: Fat/protein recommendation

Post by pato y codoniz » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:34 am

I have a young dog, less than a year old, that I've been feeding a high protein and high fat diet.

He is extremely well muscled but, also, very lean and tons of go.

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Re: Fat/protein recommendation

Post by art hubbard » Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:52 am

I think 30% protein 20% fat is the way to go. Year round, just give less in the off season.

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Re: Fat/protein recommendation

Post by Dakotazeb » Fri Jun 05, 2015 7:37 am

I tried the 30/20 formula on my female (spayed) Brittany but it was more difficult to keep the weight off even by reducing the ration. I went back to 26/16 and she maintains her weight better plus has plenty of energy in the field and at field trials. Each dog is different and you need to use what works best for your dog.
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Re: Fat/protein recommendation

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:28 am

Dakotazeb wrote:I tried the 30/20 formula on my female (spayed) Brittany but it was more difficult to keep the weight off even by reducing the ration. I went back to 26/16 and she maintains her weight better plus has plenty of energy in the field and at field trials. Each dog is different and you need to use what works best for your dog.
The percentage in the feed is not what you need to look at. You have to also know how much your dog is eating and then multiply that by the percentage. Using your example it would only take a few ounces more of the 26/16 to give the dog the same amount as it is getting from the 30/20. Practically everyone always justifies the higher percentages by the fact they feed less. And that is normally true so in many cases you are feeding the same or even more protein/fat when you go to the lower percentage feeds.
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Re: Fat/protein recommendation

Post by Dakotazeb » Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:45 am

ezzy333 wrote:
Dakotazeb wrote:I tried the 30/20 formula on my female (spayed) Brittany but it was more difficult to keep the weight off even by reducing the ration. I went back to 26/16 and she maintains her weight better plus has plenty of energy in the field and at field trials. Each dog is different and you need to use what works best for your dog.
The percentage in the feed is not what you need to look at. You have to also know how much your dog is eating and then multiply that by the percentage. Using your example it would only take a few ounces more of the 26/16 to give the dog the same amount as it is getting from the 30/20. Practically everyone always justifies the higher percentages by the fact they feed less. And that is normally true so in many cases you are feeding the same or even more protein/fat when you go to the lower percentage feeds.
Exactly. During hunting season and field trial season I simply adjust the amount I give her.
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Re: Fat/protein recommendation

Post by pato y codoniz » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:07 am

ezzy333 wrote:
Dakotazeb wrote:I tried the 30/20 formula on my female (spayed) Brittany but it was more difficult to keep the weight off even by reducing the ration. I went back to 26/16 and she maintains her weight better plus has plenty of energy in the field and at field trials. Each dog is different and you need to use what works best for your dog.
The percentage in the feed is not what you need to look at. You have to also know how much your dog is eating and then multiply that by the percentage. Using your example it would only take a few ounces more of the 26/16 to give the dog the same amount as it is getting from the 30/20. Practically everyone always justifies the higher percentages by the fact they feed less. And that is normally true so in many cases you are feeding the same or even more protein/fat when you go to the lower percentage feeds.
Now I could be wrong but I don't believe that the gross or total numbers are what is important. Sure you can feed lots more of a lower percentage protein/fat feed and feed more total protein and fat (you'd also be feeding a ton of carbs). However, I think the point that they were making is that it is about the increase of the protein and fat to carbs that spurs the increase of mitochondria and optimizes fat as a fuel source.

Anyway, my feed with the young dog is closer to 40/20, then 30/20, and, even despite the huge amounts of exercise, I only feed 5 cups.

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Re: Fat/protein recommendation

Post by Dakotazeb » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:16 am

pato, you might be right but it still boils down to each individual dog and what is working for them. Right now I feed NutriSource Adult formula that is 26/16. To maintain a good weight she gets 1 1/2 cups daily when not working. Hunting and trials she gets 2-2 1/2 cups. I've been doing this for 5 years it's what works for her.
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Re: Fat/protein recommendation

Post by ezzy333 » Fri Jun 05, 2015 11:25 am

pato y codoniz wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:
Dakotazeb wrote:I tried the 30/20 formula on my female (spayed) Brittany but it was more difficult to keep the weight off even by reducing the ration. I went back to 26/16 and she maintains her weight better plus has plenty of energy in the field and at field trials. Each dog is different and you need to use what works best for your dog.
The percentage in the feed is not what you need to look at. You have to also know how much your dog is eating and then multiply that by the percentage. Using your example it would only take a few ounces more of the 26/16 to give the dog the same amount as it is getting from the 30/20. Practically everyone always justifies the higher percentages by the fact they feed less. And that is normally true so in many cases you are feeding the same or even more protein/fat when you go to the lower percentage feeds.
Now I could be wrong but I don't believe that the gross or total numbers are what is important. Sure you can feed lots more of a lower percentage protein/fat feed and feed more total protein and fat (you'd also be feeding a ton of carbs). However, I think the point that they were making is that it is about the increase of the protein and fat to carbs that spurs the increase of mitochondria and optimizes fat as a fuel source.

Anyway, my feed with the young dog is closer to 40/20, then 30/20, and, even despite the huge amounts of exercise, I only feed 5 cups.
And I feed a 30/20 and don't give two dogs 5 cups. Sp many variables that are being ignored. Amount of activity, size of the dog, breed, metabolism rate, but it still hinges on how much you are feeding as well as percent. For decades dogs were fed 10 or 12 percent protein with 4 or 5 percent fat and did quite well I really think we are over feeding most of our dogs and running into problems because of it. But it makes us feel good thinking we are really doing well by our dogs.
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Re: Fat/protein recommendation

Post by pato y codoniz » Fri Jun 05, 2015 2:01 pm

To be honest, I probably exercise the dog too much.

We live in the steep mountains of the west and I trail jog (I don't run at my age) every other day which comes out to about 30 to 40 miles a week. The dogs are free running, up and down canyons, the entire time. Their daily exercise is 6 trips up what I call "pile mt." . Pile mt is the summit of the little mt behind the house. It is about a 700ft elevation gain and, depending on the route, a 500 to 700 yard round trip. I lug a giant decoy bag full of bumpers up there every couple of days.

Anyway, probably too much information. I could have just said that all my dogs probably eat a third more than the recommended serving and they all have slabs of muscle on their front and rear quarters (no mistaking these dogs as flatlanders) with visible veins and ribs.

Ps. Recommended for the 7mo/60lb dog is 3.5 cups. And yes, i need to have their serving adjusted during periods of inactivity.

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Re: Fat/protein recommendation

Post by GrayDawg » Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:05 pm

art hubbard wrote:I think 30% protein 20% fat is the way to go. Year round, just give less in the off season.
+1
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Re: Fat/protein recommendation

Post by dr tim » Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:32 am

You have it correct, Art.

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Re: Fat/protein recommendation

Post by shags » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:27 am

Omigosh, some of you are making it way too hard with all the measuring and multiplying etc :lol:

Find a good food. Put it in a dish and let the dog eat it. If he gets fat, feed less. If he gets thin, feed more.

It isn't rocket surgery. :lol:

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Re: Fat/protein recommendation

Post by ezzy333 » Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:59 am

shags wrote:Omigosh, some of you are making it way too hard with all the measuring and multiplying etc :lol:

Find a good food. Put it in a dish and let the dog eat it. If he gets fat, feed less. If he gets thin, feed more.

It isn't rocket surgery. :lol:
Very true.
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Re: Fat/protein recommendation

Post by Sharon » Sun Jun 07, 2015 3:33 pm

shags wrote:Omigosh, some of you are making it way too hard with all the measuring and multiplying etc :lol:

Find a good food. Put it in a dish and let the dog eat it. If he gets fat, feed less. If he gets thin, feed more.

It isn't rocket surgery. :lol:

ROFLMBO ..... too funny and so true.
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Re: Fat/protein recommendation

Post by nevermind » Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:18 pm

shags wrote:Omigosh, some of you are making it way too hard with all the measuring and multiplying etc :lol:

Find a good food. Put it in a dish and let the dog eat it. If he gets fat, feed less. If he gets thin, feed more.

It isn't rocket surgery. :lol:
My wife tries to use this theory on me...

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