Senior Dog Food

[Sharon]

I found this article very interesting as I have traditionally used Senior dog food. I'm going to reconsider that.

http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/he ... foods.aspx

[ezzy333]

Sharon you are reading an article put out by someone with an agenda. They are trying to sell their products. And though some of what she is saying is true she is using a lot of half truths to make it sound like what you are feeding is bad. We continually talk about all life stages and compare them to puppy food but they are just as good for older dogs too.

Ezzy

[Del Lolo]

Personally, I find Senior food to be silly.
Just feed them your regular 30/20 -- just smaller amounts.

[birddog1968]

Dog Dr. responded to a post i made concerning this a year or more ago and agreed that lowering fat and protein was of no real benefit and may actually be counterproductive in older dogs.

[Del Lolo]

Sharon you are reading an article put out by someone with an agenda. They are trying to sell their products. And though some of what she is saying is true she is using a lot of half truths to make it sound like what you are feeding is bad. We continually talk about all life stages and compare them to puppy food but they are just as good for older dogs too.

Ezzy

What is this Doctor's agenda? -- I didn't see her trying to sell anything.
What are the half truths ?

[shags]

Look at the top of the page where it says 'shop'. Then check out all the products with 'Mercola' on the labels.

[Del Lolo]

Look at the top of the page where it says 'shop'. Then check out all the products with 'Mercola' on the labels.

Read the ARTICLE -- not the top lines or the sidelines.
Nothing in the article with an agenda or advertisement.
Dr. Becker's article was composed from a Tuft's publication. What kind of agenda does Tuft's have ?
A few sites, (but very few) don't have advertisments.

[Mountaineer]

Selling stuff requires subtlety.

Nice lab in that avatar, by the way...I've seen it several places by another poster.

Not sure where I fall on Senior food...I expect it does make me feel good to feed it to the two older lads but that is a poor reason alone to use it.
Probably like most else, it's more a message board issue than in the kennel or out in the field.

[Del Lolo]

Selling stuff requires subtlety.

Nice lab in that avatar, by the way...I've seen it several places by another poster.

The dog is co-owned.

[Neil]

"Holistic Vet"?

[Del Lolo]

"Holistic Vet"?

Just like
Holistic MDs
Holistic Dentists
Holistic Chiropractors
Holistic "other" health care providers

[Neil]

"Holistic Vet"?

Just like
Holistic MDs
Holistic Dentists
Holistic Chiropractors
Holistic "other" health care providers

Oh, you mean quacks.

[slistoe]

Look at the top of the page where it says 'shop'. Then check out all the products with 'Mercola' on the labels.

Read the ARTICLE -- not the top lines or the sidelines.
Nothing in the article with an agenda or advertisement.
Dr. Becker's article was composed from a Tuft's publication. What kind of agenda does Tuft's have ?
A few sites, (but very few) don't have advertisments.

Holy wow! There is nothing in that article outside of the 84% in the first sentence that has anything to do with Tufts and the entire rest of the article is truth bending agenda. Not sure how anyone could miss that.

Aside from that, Eukanuba did extensive studies many years ago that showed high protein was not detrimental to dogs but actually beneficial as they age and their work actually changed how many human nutritionists treated people as well. No idea how anyone would find that info now - as a dealer of Euk food way back then the paper was sent out to us to use in education of food buyers and I no longer have any of it. That was before marketing to perceptions was the only way to sell stuff - when people actually wanted real facts about things.

Anyway, the research does show some benefit to higher Omega's for continued brain function and joint supplements for aging joints to be of benefit - those are the main things the quality makers of Senior formulas are addressing. Makes it simpler for the folks who would be supplementing the regular diet with such things anyway. Of course it is buyer beware and there are the "perception labelling" companies out there as well.

[Neil]

I do recall the Iams/Euk studies. The one I found the most interesting was the importance of fat in running in the heat.

The article is all hype and no facts, there are not even any specific claims to longer life or higher quality of life. Just vauge statements.

[Del Lolo]

Aside from that, Eukanuba did extensive studies many years ago that showed high protein was not detrimental to dogs but actually beneficial as they age and their work actually changed how many human nutritionists treated people as well.

Anyway, the research does show some benefit to higher Omega's for continued brain function and joint supplements for aging joints to be of benefit - those are the main things the quality makers of Senior formulas are addressing. Makes it simpler for the folks who would be supplementing the regular diet with such things anyway.

That is exactly what the article said.

Actually, it's the Omega-3 called DHA for brain function and it's been shown to markedly reduce the rate of Retinal Degeneration in the geriatric dog (and humans) -- EPA probably doesn't have much to do with neurologic function, but it is great for numerous other things.

The problem with dog foods containing these "supplements" is that they are limited to non-therapeutic levels. Once they hav therapeutic levels, they are considered prescription foods.... So, it doesn't make it simpler.

[slistoe]

That is exactly what the article said.

The article said to buy senior food because it simplified supplementing dogs?

[Bounty_Hunter]

This just cant be so. (The exceptional poor quality protein used in most commercial dog foods is difficult for even young healthy dogs to process.) Can you experienced kibble feeders tell me if this article is accurate?

[slistoe]

This just cant be so. (The exceptional poor quality protein used in most commercial dog foods is difficult for even young healthy dogs to process.) Can you experienced kibble feeders tell me if this article is accurate?

I think most everybody has already weighed in with "this article is bunk". Zero science, zero facts, zero logic - only raw emotional appeal to promote a religion.

[slistoe]

The one I found the most interesting was the importance of fat in running in the heat.

Yeah, that was a good piece of info. Kind of validated all the old time pros who kept a lard pail in the trailer.

[Sharon]

That is exactly what the article said.

The article said to buy senior food because it simplified supplementing dogs?

See the question mark? He's not saying the article said that. The article is actually saying that most of the dog owners surveyed think Senior dog food is a good thing , BUT it isn't.... and it goes on to say WHY senior dog food is not a good thing.

key statement: " your dog’s diet should meet his individual nutritional requirements, which may or may not be similar to other dogs his age. Your dog’s body condition and any underlying disease are more important considerations than his age."

[slistoe]

That is exactly what the article said.

The article said to buy senior food because it simplified supplementing dogs?

See the question mark? He's not saying the article said that.

Not sure I follow you Sharon. The question mark is mine.

[Sharon]

Yes. I was trying to say that you weren't saying the article wants you to buy senior dog food but you were querying whether ...........oh .... let's just leave it.

[slistoe]

The article is actually saying that most of the dog owners surveyed think Senior dog food is a good thing , BUT it isn't.... and it goes on to say WHY senior dog food is not a good thing.

So you will now be consulting an holistic vet and be feeding the proper raw proteins and recommended green leafy fibre along with the proper supplements? I bet Del Lolo could put you in touch with a source of quality Omega 3's. I think he "knows" a chiropractor who is a dog nutrition expert and a developer of dog pharmaceuticals.

key statement: " your dog’s diet should meet his individual nutritional requirements, which may or may not be similar to other dogs his age. Your dog’s body condition and any underlying disease are more important considerations than his age."

And how does that invalidate the use of a quality senior dog food where indicated?

[Sharon]

This just cant be so. (The exceptional poor quality protein used in most commercial dog foods is difficult for even young healthy dogs to process.) Can you experienced kibble feeders tell me if this article is accurate?

I think most everybody has already weighed in with "this article is bunk". Zero science, zero facts, zero logic - only raw emotional appeal to promote a religion.

Very sorry I posted it . I forgot that the appearance of the word "holistic" would ramp up some folks' blood pressures. I learned something , but I promise to give my self 50 lashes , and never post an article again.

[Bounty_Hunter]

This just cant be so. (The exceptional poor quality protein used in most commercial dog foods is difficult for even young healthy dogs to process.) Can you experienced kibble feeders tell me if this article is accurate?

I think most everybody has already weighed in with "this article is bunk". Zero science, zero facts, zero logic - only raw emotional appeal to promote a religion.

She is giving advice on how to care for older dogs, and in doing so revealed some reasons it may be more difficult for dogs that received a poor kibble diet. She did say most, not all when describing commercial dog foods. Listening to the logic in her statements, sure sounds like its accurate. What is it about whole foods that you think they could not be better then processed foods.

[slistoe]

This just cant be so. (The exceptional poor quality protein used in most commercial dog foods is difficult for even young healthy dogs to process.) Can you experienced kibble feeders tell me if this article is accurate?

I think most everybody has already weighed in with "this article is bunk". Zero science, zero facts, zero logic - only raw emotional appeal to promote a religion.

Very sorry I posted it . I forgot that the appearance of the word "holistic" would ramp up some folks' blood pressures. I learned something , but I promise to give my self 50 lashes , and never post an article again.

I actually subscribe to Mercola's e-mail feed.

[slistoe]

What is it about whole foods that you think they could not be better then processed foods.

Been down that road already with you. Never mind.

[slistoe]

Listening to the logic in her statements, sure sounds like its accurate.

There is no logic in her statements in that article.

[Bounty_Hunter]

Listening to the logic in her statements, sure sounds like its accurate.

There is no logic in her statements in that article.

Dog food aside, I know lots of folks dumping processed food and its catching on like wildfire. Here is something I heard recently. Many children from the now generation will not outlive their parents because of poor dietary choices, PROCESSED FOODS.

[birddog1968]

Human junk food and processed food is not the same as dry dog food. That's not really that difficult to understand.

[slistoe]

Listening to the logic in her statements, sure sounds like its accurate.

There is no logic in her statements in that article.

Dog food aside, I know lots of folks dumping processed food and its catching on like wildfire. Here is something I heard recently. Many children from the now generation will not outlive their parents because of poor dietary choices, PROCESSED FOODS.

There is no logic in this statement of yours as it relates to dog food either.

[Bounty_Hunter]

Human junk food and processed food is not the same as dry dog food. That's not really that difficult to understand.

If processed food is junk food and bad for humans then why would processed dry dog food not be bad for dogs. It is the word processed with the need for preservatives to ensure longer shelf life that makes a processed food an unhealthy choice for humans or dogs.

[birddog1968]

I don't have the energy....by your logic my dogs should look like a guy who lives on potato chips, sodas and hotdogs.....and twinkies for dessert. (face palm).

This thread is about senior dog formulas......

[slistoe]

Human junk food and processed food is not the same as dry dog food. That's not really that difficult to understand.

If processed food is junk food and bad for humans then why would processed dry dog food not be bad for dogs. It is the word processed with the need for preservatives to ensure longer shelf life that makes a processed food an unhealthy choice for humans or dogs.

Do you really believe that "processed" as it is used in the context of human foods is the equivalent of "processed" as it is used in the context of dog food? There is no hope :roll: :roll:

[Bounty_Hunter]

There is no logic in this statement of yours as it relates to dog food either.

Well since I said dog food aside, it shows that logic is not as important as your position on protecting the kibble makers. I was just trying to get you to admit the fact that there is a significant difference between whole foods and processed foods.

[slistoe]

There is no logic in this statement of yours as it relates to dog food either.

Well since I said dog food aside, it shows that logic is not as important as your position on protecting the kibble makers. I was just trying to get you to admit the fact that there is a significant difference between whole foods and processed foods.

Do you mean "processed foods" or "cooked foods"..... there is a difference between each of them and raw foods, but the differences are certainly not to the same end.

[Bounty_Hunter]

Do you mean "processed foods" or "cooked foods"..... there is a difference between each of them and raw foods, but the differences are certainly not to the same end.

If I cook foods to high temperatures for long periods of time would you call that a process?

[ezzy333]

Do you mean "processed foods" or "cooked foods"..... there is a difference between each of them and raw foods, but the differences are certainly not to the same end.

If I cook foods to high temperatures for long periods of time would you call that a process?

And who cooks dog food at high temperature for a long time and when did you first see this done? And why does processing require preservatives? Just what is processing mean? Do you have any idea of the difference in what is good for a dog and what is good for a human? Wish you could lead us all through the process that kibble manufactures use to make their feed. I think we all would learn a lot from you.

Ezzy

[Neil]

Sharon,

Please do not take offense, you posted an article you said you found of interest. I found it interesting for different reasons. Nothing personal intended.

[Mountaineer]

I don't have the energy....by your logic my dogs should look like a guy who lives on potato chips, sodas and hotdogs.....and twinkies for dessert. (face palm).

Of all that was said, the above implication is the reality.....if fairness is at all important.
Just look and watch birddogs in action, in tough conditions hunting or trialing or on the simplest of days.....look at their performance, look at their recovery time and then the word "processed", by whatever definition fits one's agenda, becomes far less or completely unimportant as applied to dog food.

Dogs, or people, do not become fit and highly functioning on bad food.....and dogs do not become old dogs on food choice of the owner alone.
Again, look at the results....don't look at studies with designed end games or narrow ranges of particulars...look at the dogs out there doing what they love, look in person or in a photo, and then compare.
Don't just look at one's own dog, as that kind blind anyone at times.
Look at the bulk of what has been accomplished and is being accomplished and then honestly compare. look at the dog itself.......which most clearly appears to be a dog able to be a birddog?

That fairness mentioned above, will reduce these dog food wars to sad skirmishes between folks who simply hate to see war end as they are profiteers, of sorts.

[Bounty_Hunter]

I don't have the energy....by your logic my dogs should look like a guy who lives on potato chips, sodas and hotdogs.....and twinkies for dessert. (face palm).

Of all that was said, the above implication is the reality.....if fairness is at all important.
Just look and watch birddogs in action, in tough conditions hunting or trialing or on the simplest of days.....look at their performance, look at their recovery time and then the word "processed", by whatever definition fits one's agenda, becomes far less or completely unimportant as applied to dog food.

Dogs, or people, do not become fit and highly functioning on bad food.....and dogs do not become old dogs on food choice of the owner alone.
Again, look at the results....don't look at studies with designed end games or narrow ranges of particulars...look at the dogs out there doing what they love, look in person or in a photo, and then compare.
Don't just look at one's own dog, as that kind blind anyone at times.
Look at the bulk of what has been accomplished and is being accomplished and then honestly compare. look at the dog itself.......which most clearly appears to be a dog able to be a birddog?

That fairness mentioned above, will reduce these dog food wars to sad skirmishes between folks who simply hate to see war end as they are profiteers, of sorts.

Good analogy, So as long as everything on the outside looks good who cares what's going on inside. I bet lots of profit minded vets think the same way.

[Del Lolo]

That is exactly what the article said.

The article said to buy senior food because it simplified supplementing dogs?

No, it said that Senior food wasn't beneficial.

What Sharon said, "...... The article is actually saying that most of the dog owners surveyed think Senior dog food is a good thing , BUT it isn't.... and it goes on to say WHY senior dog food is not a good thing."

[Bounty_Hunter]

Do you mean "processed foods" or "cooked foods"..... there is a difference between each of them and raw foods, but the differences are certainly not to the same end.

If I cook foods to high temperatures for long periods of time would you call that a process?

And who cooks dog food at high temperature for a long time and when did you first see this done? And why does processing require preservatives? Just what is processing mean? Do you have any idea of the difference in what is good for a dog and what is good for a human? Wish you could lead us all through the process that kibble manufactures use to make their feed. I think we all would learn a lot from you.

Ezzy

What's good for dogs and humans is whole foods that have not been transformed by man but provided by nature. See it grow, pick it, eat it. And Its that simple, nothing can beat it nutritionally. Catch it, kill it, eat it for the carnivorous animal. Nothing can beat it nutritionally.
http://www.thedogbowl.com/PPF/category_ ... ogbowl.asp

[Mountaineer]

BH, the "inside" would be indicated by performance .....that would be the "watch in action" and "look at their performance" part of my post.
Trying to imply that I only meant to look at appearance is...typical of your postings, at best.
But, if appearance is all one knows as to birddogs and performance is only the odd exposure on a nice day then .....I reckon the mistake is, somewhat, understandable.

Naturally, the genetics that are inside can't be seen and they often go farthest to determining the ultimate outcome of us all....understanding, of course, that truly abusing all the aspects of food and exercise will affect performance and longevity.
But, true abuse of each is not quite as prevalent in birddogs as can be comfortable for some folks to assume.

Glad that Vets look at profit...it allows them to remain in business so that I can utilize them as necessary to take yet another step at maintaining the health of my dogs....besides proper feeding for their individual needs.
Even glad the vet in the OP's noted article has a profit motive.....it is part of what built America.
Just have to sift out that which those mentioned looks at the dogs find as simple fluff or agenda-pushing.

[Bounty_Hunter]

I don't have the energy....by your logic my dogs should look like a guy who lives on potato chips, sodas and hotdogs.....and twinkies for dessert. (face palm).

This thread is about senior dog formulas......

Funny you should mention this because I see lots of bird dogs out there that are fat and don't look like they will make it to their lunch break. Most likely the kibble fed ones.

[Del Lolo]

I bet Del Lolo could put you in touch with a source of quality Omega 3's. I think he "knows" a chiropractor who is a dog nutrition expert and a developer of dog pharmaceuticals.

If you're talking about Doc E, yes i know him and talk to him (email) almost every day. He lives about 300+ miles from my place.
He is a chiropractic physician who has a Diplomate in Clinical Nutrition. He has not developed any pharmaceuticals, he has developed dog Nutraceuticals. I get my supplements (including Omega-3s) from him.
How much other stuff that you say is incorrect?

[Bounty_Hunter]

BH, the "inside" would be indicated by performance .....that would be the "watch in action" and "look at their performance" part of my post.
Trying to imply that I only meant to look at appearance is...typical of your postings, at best.
But, if appearance is all one knows as to birddogs and performance is only the odd exposure on a nice day then .....I reckon the mistake is, somewhat, understandable.

Naturally, the genetics that are inside can't be seen and they often go farthest to determining the ultimate outcome of us all....understanding, of course, that truly abusing all the aspects of food and exercise will affect performance and longevity.
But, true abuse of each is not quite as prevalent in birddogs as can be comfortable for some folks to assume.

Glad that Vets look at profit...it allows them to remain in business so that I can utilize them as necessary to take yet another step at maintaining the health of my dogs....besides proper feeding for their individual needs.
Even glad the vet in the OP's noted article has a profit motive.....it is part of what built America.
Just have to sift out that which those mentioned looks at the dogs find as simple fluff or agenda-pushing.

Mountaineer, dogs are animals and built to ignore pain and not built to think like humans. They can eat out of the sewer and still run fast and perform but its long term effects that catch up, and in some it isn't even long. Stop using the word agenda, I'm just trying to open some eyes about the importance of whole foods for both dogs and people. When I read a dog food label that says its equally nutritious to whole food I'll start using it.

[birddog1968]

BH...YOU see a lot of birddogs?

There is a trial in Petersburg pa on the 7th....show up. There are two chukar challenges west of there in April and a ruff grouse society fun trial. Which one would you like to show up to and see kibble in action?

You've posted a picture of your dogs teeth.....let's see the rest of him...I want to see what this raw fed dog looks like. I think you've reached troll level, now your opinions go in circles just for the sake of having a debate. You tried to argue dogs and people food are the same if processed now its different and they look great on the outside, can preform and recover quickly but are rotten on the inside. If your not trolling for the sake of trolling I don't know what to say.

[Bounty_Hunter]

BH...YOU see a lot of bjirddogs? Before you told me you didnt even have time to come out to an event I posted up weeks in advance....where do you see these fat bird dogs? I'd bet if you saw 3 other dogs in a month I'd be surprised. Denial and dishonesty being at the root of your arguments. Open your mind man.

There is a trial in Petersburg pa on the 7th....show up. There are two chukar challenges west of there in April and a ruff grouse society fun trial. Which one would you like to show up to and see kibble in action?

You've posted a picture of your dogs teeth.....let's see the rest of him...I want to see what this raw fed dog looks like. I think you've reached troll level, now your opinions go in circles just for the sake of having a debate. You tried to argue dogs and people food are the same if processed now its different and they look great on the outside, can preform and recover quickly but are rotten on the inside. If your not trolling for the sake of trolling I don't know what to say.

BD I was just making a general statement based on dogs I see through out the season in different areas I hunt. I do see overweight dogs that just don't look half as energetic as a dog should be. Sometimes I'll stop even if I'm not hunting just to chat with bird hunters and see their dogs. Not saying every dog I see looks fat and lazy but I do see them and its almost common. I just might try to get to one of those April events so make sure you post the dates.

[birddog1968]

What county do you live in?

Look at my Pale Rider dog in my signature lines, picture on the right is about 20 months old, picture on the left is 7 years old. Same feed over that whole period......

So that feed is killing him on the inside but not on the outside or performance wise???? Denial buddy ......


9 months old


5 years old same feed.
[URL=http://s148.photobucket.com/user/can362 ... 6.jpg.html]
Btw I'm not BK Schmidt , friend of mine who took the picture.