Struvite Crystals

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ckirsch
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Struvite Crystals

Post by ckirsch » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:07 pm

I have a two-year old pointer that my twelve-year-old daughter will be running in a NAVHDA UT test next month. Dog has seemed a little off his feed, urine was dark, so I took him to the vet today and learned he has a UTI along with struvite crystals. Vet tells me that the dog will need to be on a permanent special diet. Spent some time online this afternoon and some of what I learned there didn't seem to indicate that it was automatically a lifelong problem. I had my dogs on Diamond EA, which appears to be a good food. Always has access to clean water. For the time being, I'll get the dog on antibiotics and some cranberry supplements that supposedly acidify the urine, to help break down the crystals. If anyone out there can further educate me on this situation, I'd be very grateful.

MonsterDad
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Re: Struvite Crystals

Post by MonsterDad » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:39 pm

Was this your regular Vet? I am not a Vet but there are a few on here that can correct me but your vet is wrong.

Struvites are a result of the infection from a change of Ph in the urine. It will go back to normal once the infection clears. Also, unless your Vet tested very fresh urine, your dog may not have crystals at all. If urine isn't fresh, crystals form sitting in the jar. Struvite crystals are found in perfectly health dogs too. You could also make every effort to keep really fresh water available in a few locations and maybe even wet the dogs food.

If any change of diet is required, it will be a higher protein, lower carb food to acidify the urine not what the vet sells but your are using a low carb food already.

It could be very possible there is a misunderstanding about what type of crystals he found.

ckirsch
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Re: Struvite Crystals

Post by ckirsch » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:31 pm

I've used this vet for a while and he's been pretty solid thus far. That said, he's not infallible and could be wrong in this case. He tested some hour-old urine and said it showed a UTI, but that the struvite crystals were the larger problem as that was usually was a life-long situation in his experience. When I researched it online, I found some conflicting information on that. Hope you're right about it being something that can be eliminated.

Thanks for the information.

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Re: Struvite Crystals

Post by MonsterDad » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:17 am

ckirsch wrote:I've used this vet for a while and he's been pretty solid thus far. That said, he's not infallible and could be wrong in this case. He tested some hour-old urine and said it showed a UTI, but that the struvite crystals were the larger problem as that was usually was a life-long situation in his experience. When I researched it online, I found some conflicting information on that. Hope you're right about it being something that can be eliminated.

Thanks for the information.
I would relax about it. Stones are what you really have to worry about with males. Since there is an infection it seems safe to assume it will pass.

You know with males, unless they get walked they don't tend to empty their bladders like females do. Maybe until it passes your daughter can get him on a leash and get him to empty out a few times a day. Then he will probably drink a bit more.

ckirsch
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Re: Struvite Crystals

Post by ckirsch » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:37 am

We'll give that a try. The dog gets out of his kennel four or five times every day to run around our large yard, but we'll try some short walks a couple of times per day. In your experience, is this something that goes away with treatment, or am I looking at a long-term problem? I've been getting mixed messages on that.

Thanks again!

Craig

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Re: Struvite Crystals

Post by MonsterDad » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:15 pm

ckirsch wrote:We'll give that a try. The dog gets out of his kennel four or five times every day to run around our large yard, but we'll try some short walks a couple of times per day. In your experience, is this something that goes away with treatment, or am I looking at a long-term problem? I've been getting mixed messages on that.

Thanks again!

Craig
I can only speak from experience. We have probably a half dozen toy breeds in the family, all females, that get UTI's and all have elevated struvites when they first go in and they always get back to normal after the infection has cleared.

Peter
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Re: Struvite Crystals

Post by Peter » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:51 pm

The reason you get conflicting answers is because it can be a one time issue or a recurring issue. Struvite stones are always the product of a UTI. Most of the time they occur in female dogs, likely from a shorter urethra that predisposes females to an ascending infection, but the cause of the UTI can be one of many reasons. Ascending infection , another type of stone of that leads to a UTI (ex: oxalate stone in the center with a struvite outer core), or diet changes that cause alkaline urine, etc. If it were me or if you came in to me, I would treat as a one time event, do 1-2 rechecks of urine to make sure pH was adequate and there wasn't anymore crystals. If we were reoccurring I would consider changing diet or adding urine acidifiers.

Peter

ckirsch
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Re: Struvite Crystals

Post by ckirsch » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:48 pm

Great info. Thanks for the help.

He's on an antibiotic now, and I plan to try some cranberry supplements for a month or so to help acidify the urine. I'll test him again after that and see what happens.

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Re: Struvite Crystals

Post by MonsterDad » Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:37 am

You can buy PH test strips at any good pharmacy.

So I was able to speak to my sister about her ShihTzu's.

They went from Beneful to Merricks Canned Complete Green Tripe (no grain) on the vet's instructions and they are doing much better. No UTI's and the struvite re-checks are fine. Just a note these dogs never has a stone formation just crystals.

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Re: Struvite Crystals

Post by AG74 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 2:44 pm

ckirsch wrote:I have a two-year old pointer that my twelve-year-old daughter will be running in a NAVHDA UT test next month. Dog has seemed a little off his feed, urine was dark, so I took him to the vet today and learned he has a UTI along with struvite crystals. Vet tells me that the dog will need to be on a permanent special diet. Spent some time online this afternoon and some of what I learned there didn't seem to indicate that it was automatically a lifelong problem. I had my dogs on Diamond EA, which appears to be a good food. Always has access to clean water. For the time being, I'll get the dog on antibiotics and some cranberry supplements that supposedly acidify the urine, to help break down the crystals. If anyone out there can further educate me on this situation, I'd be very grateful.
i was feeding Diamond naturals EA to my two year old GWP also and he was diagnosed with crystals as well, no UTI though. Doc said the same thing: change diet. I"m not sure though, from what I've read the high protein shouldn't cause the crystals. But I put him on Science Diet Grain Free (I'm not a Science Diet fan) and bottled water as opposed to our city water which seems to be very high in calc and minerals. It seemed to help, but he lost weight, so I'm mixing the Diamond EA back in.

I think I"m in the same boat as you, wondering, "did the high protien EA food cause this?" Haven't been able to come to a good conclusion yet. Too many variables and most vets being paid to get you to switch to Science Diet, which causes bias, in my opinion.

Good luck, let me know if you find anything out please.
Al

ckirsch
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Re: Struvite Crystals

Post by ckirsch » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:44 pm

Dog has been on antibiotics for a week now, and started on cranberry supplements a few days ago. Vet tells me that the antibiotic will take care of the infection, but not the crystals. I read elsewhere that the majority of dogs tested have some crystals, and it's not a problem unless accompanied by a UTI. Since this is a first-time issue with this dog, I'll keep my fingers crossed that once we get him over the infection, he'll be ok. Might be my imagination, but he seems a little better already, appetite is up, maybe a little more energy. His Utility Test is just three weeks away now, so hopefully he'll be at full speed for that.

Thanks to all who provided info and tips. Much appreciated.

CK

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Re: Struvite Crystals

Post by BigShooter » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:29 pm

Sent a PM.
Mark

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dr tim
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Re: Struvite Crystals

Post by dr tim » Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:57 am

Struvite crystals can be the result on an infection or a crystal that occurs in some breeds due to a issue with processing the precursors of this type of crystal improperly(such as a westie). In the breeds that are predisposed to this crystal(genetic thing) they do need to be on a special diet indefinitely. A GSP is not a breed I would suspect to have a genetic predisposition to this nor would I expect the first time you had an issue would be at 12 years of age. You would have been to the vet a long time ago with urinary issues if this was genetic.

As to the majority of struvite crystals being found in a urine sample it is evidence of a longer standing urinary tract infection. Yes, a few can be found in a normal dog but more than a few or many along with the rest of the urinalysis being abnormal points to a bladder or urinary tract infection.

How I would recc one to proceed would be do the antibiotics for the 2 weeks and then recheck an urine sample. If the crystals are gone and urine normal you cleared up the infection. If the crystals are there and the urine still not normal you need to look at the urinary system closer, say an ultrasound, etc., to make sure this older dog doesn't have anything else brewing. If all looks like just an urinary tract infection possibly then a culture and sensitivity is done to see if a different antibiotic is needed. Older dogs with difficult UTI's need to be looked at closer as tumors can happen and other fun stuff.

If one still thinks the struvite crystals are a long term issue do this; if the 2nd urine sample was clear, go back to regular food and recheck the urine in 3 weeks for crystals. If they are back then maybe this dog does need long term food change but the chances are slim with a pointer unless there is a incontinence issue happening due to age, such as an older spayed female.

Lastly, the cranberry supplements don't acidify the urine but actually make the cell lining of the urinary tract more "slippery" so the bacteria can't get a good hold to set up shop. Just a FYI.

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Re: Struvite Crystals

Post by BigShooter » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:46 pm

Two year old Pointer, Twelve year old daughter. Speed reading doesn't always work well.
Mark

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ckirsch
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Re: Struvite Crystals

Post by ckirsch » Wed Aug 07, 2013 7:07 am

Doc Tim;

Finished the antibiotics last week so will have the dog retested today. He seems to be doing better, I'll keep my fingers crossed that the tests provide some encouraging results.

Thanks for the advice.

CK

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