Breeding GSP's

[0311beginner]

I would love to eventually breed my female GSP. However since I have no personal experience in breeding, and won't even be considering it for a while, I want to learn as much as I can. Why not start here? Firstly my female is just now shy of a year and our vet who also raises GSP's advised us to wait until at least two years of age. Is this a common practice? And if so what's the reason behind it? Secondly I'd like to know if breeding should be held within her same coloring? I've heard that with other breeds, mixing coat coloring can have a negative impact on the litters long term health. Again, with no experience in this area I'd rather be safe and learn as much as possible before we even think about breeding her. Any other tips or advice, lessons learned, etc. would be greatly appreciated!
-Brandon and Stacy

[TraditionsGSPs2010]

I commend you for reaching out for suggestions and information regarding breeding. Judging by the questions you are asking, I would suggest you start at your local library with some books written by professionals about the do's and don'ts. I would also try to get paired up with a local breed club and see if someone would be interested in mentoring you.

[cjhills]

Our females generally don't come into their first heat until close to 18 months,some earlier. WE never breed on the first heat. We want her to be more mature. The second heat is generally about two years. You cannot do OFA hip X-rays until at least 24 months. although you can do preliminary or Pennhip at a younger age. There are several other health test such as eyes, heart and some others that are bloodline and breed specific.
It also increases the value of the puppies to have some sort of title. AKC Hunt test preferably master,NAVHDA, CH or FC depending on what the bitch is capable. You need to be very honest with yourself about whether the bitch is breeding material. Supposedly we breed to improvre the breed or at least not to hurt it.
Remember most vets are pet vets and not breeder vets some of their advice is not real reliable and some are very much against amatuer breeding. With good reason I might add. It is best if you can contact area breeders and find out who they use. A good working relationship with a competent vet is a very big asset. If things go wrong it is usually at two in the morning.
Getting all the information you can is top on the list. After twenty years we still get surprises.
Select the best stud dog you can find and be willing to pay the price. Breeding $400 puppies is not worth the time and expense. Also be aware that you may not get the puppies all sold and buddies that say they want one tend to disappear when the take home date arrives.
Dog breeding is very tough and expensive also very rewarding. Treat you buyers with respect and above all honesty. Good luck. CJ

[reba]

You will not know if the bitch is worth breeding until she is old enough to have shown her stuff in the field, so at least two hunting seasons.

If folks start asking for a puppy, if you ever breed her, then you may want to think about it.

In my life time I have owned two breed and obedience champions and have NEVER raised a litter of dogs! I leave that job to the professional breeders......

Now if the owner of a champion trials dog asks if you want to breed your bitch to his dog then think about it.

If you want more dogs then get more from a professional breeder.

[mcbosco]

Unless a dog is close to perfect in mind, body & spirit, there is no reason to breed.

There are plenty of dogs out there like that.

[cjhills]

Unless a dog is close to perfect in mind, body & spirit, there is no reason to breed.

There are plenty of dogs out there like that.

In the event that you find this near perfect dog, I would really appreciate if you would let me know. I really would like a piece of that action.
Who makes the decision on what is perfect. If we only breed perfect dogs there wouldn't be many. I think none. CJ

[mcbosco]

Unless a dog is close to perfect in mind, body & spirit, there is no reason to breed.

There are plenty of dogs out there like that.

In the event that you find this near perfect dog, I would really appreciate if you would let me know. I really would like a piece of that action.
Who makes the decision on what is perfect. If we only breed perfect dogs there wouldn't be many. I think none. CJ

There is a written standard for all breeds, that is the easy part.

The tough part is explaining to people that a bird dog that can't be trusted around children, has a bad a bite, poor coat and health issues should stay out of the gene pool.

I said "close to perfect", you know what I mean. You know plenty of folks, and you have seen dogs with faults that have been bred when they shouldn't have.

[ezzy333]

Unless a dog is close to perfect in mind, body & spirit, there is no reason to breed.

There are plenty of dogs out there like that.

In the event that you find this near perfect dog, I would really appreciate if you would let me know. I really would like a piece of that action.
Who makes the decision on what is perfect. If we only breed perfect dogs there wouldn't be many. I think none. CJ

There is a written standard for all breeds, that is the easy part.

The tough part is explaining to people that a bird dog that can't be trusted around children, has a bad a bite, poor coat and health issues should stay out of the gene pool.

I said "close to perfect", you know what I mean. You know plenty of folks, and you have seen dogs with faults that have been bred when they shouldn't have.

Think you are right but then that might eliminate several breeds also.

Ezzy

[Ms. Cage]

I said "close to perfect", you know what I mean. You know plenty of folks, and you have seen dogs with faults that have been bred when they shouldn't have.

Would you consider breeding dogs that might have maybe not the best angulation, a little hockie, maybe not the head type, best top line? Would you consider any of these traits to be a fault or weakness? Where do we seperate train ability, hunting ability, from comformation in a breeding program or in choosing if a dog should be bred or not. Granting dog has health clearances

[mcbosco]

I said "close to perfect", you know what I mean. You know plenty of folks, and you have seen dogs with faults that have been bred when they shouldn't have.

Would you consider breeding dogs that might have maybe not the best angulation, a little hockie, maybe not the head type, best top line? Would you consider any of these traits to be a fault or weakness? Where do we seperate train ability, hunting ability, from comformation in a breeding program or in choosing if a dog should be bred or not. Granting dog has health clearances

Would you? And, I don't think you can in the long run. A dog with not the best angulation, that is a little hockie or doesn't have the best head or top line will turn into much worse in subsequent generations. How did some of the pointers develop such a severe bite?

I have to go back to what I have said a few times, each club should adopt the registration protocol of the JRTCA. This wont prevent out of club breedings but at least the consumer has one big important question to ask.

The breed standard is the ideal, nothing will be perfect but trying to be is something we don't do enough in the US these days. The nice couple should realize that the reason they got that pup to begin with was because it wasn't a dog that should be bred, in all likelihood.

No trait of a dog should be, or made to be mutually exclusive.

[NC Quailhunter]

I think it is a good thing that you are reserching breeding your dog. I would start with what are the goals in breeding your dog. Are you concerned with just the color or conformation in total? Are you looking at the field performance of your dog and like it and want to improve onit? There are some other things that can into. I guess all I am trying to say is really look at the reason you are breeding and what you expect to improve upon or repeat when you breed that pup. I wish you luck. I also would like to say welcome to the fold from a retired 0369. I was an 11 before I got promoted. There are alot of birds on that base in Cali where you are. DOn't spend too much time at Camp Wilson. SF

[Ms. Cage]

[quote="mcbosco"]Would you? And, I don't think you can in the long run. A dog with not the best angulation, that is a little hockie or doesn't have the best head or top line will turn into much worse in subsequent generations. How did some of the pointers develop such a severe bite?[/quote]

Depends, How severe is the fault. How many faults in overall comformation. Selecting the proper mate. A mate that will strengthen the others weakness. The ancestry, are they of sound type. linbreeding or outcross. If line breeding I'd look to the side with the better comformation. Imo, done right shouldn't affect the future generations much, If at all. know matter how well we breed not every pup will be a shining knight. Some times we have to give a little to gain in the overall balance of comformation and performance....

Pointers, very simple performance way before comformation no balance.

[cjhills]

We start first with disposition. A bad or aggressive disposition is mutually exclusive. No matter how good the dog is, If it is perfect in every way, which it is not. If it has a bad disposition it can't stay in our kennel. This includes fighting, overly dominant or defensive. If your dog bites a neighbor kid no matter how much the kid did to provoke it you lose the battle . No hockie dogs. straight shoulders we can live with if the dog is balanced. We like a good topline but not table top. We like a little roach. lack of a 12 o'clock tail is not a deal breaker. You have to pick your poison because no dog is perfect. No two people on here see the same thing as perfect.
Breed standards are the ideal to the people who developed the standards, but not to everybody and don't address many of the areas we need to consider in selecting a breeding dog.
Not everybody wants supercharged FC or a show champion. Some want a nice , good looking dog that will play with your children, hang out with your family and be a reasonably good hunting dog on natural talent and a little training they can do without having to morgage the farm to pay for it. Your dog may produce just that. Or maybe not. It's tough and when you breed the bitch your rolling the dice. Good luck. CJ

[RoostersMom]

IF your dog is an excellent representative of the breed (you know this by "testing" the dog in different venues; hunt tests, field trials, conformation events, obedience trials, testing for temperament, etc.) and has the appropriate health clearances, then go for it. If you have a mediocre dog in any of the above categories - then why breed this particular dog? If you're not improving the breed (and I don't mean adding to the GSP population because your dog is a swell hunter and a pretty dog) then why would you want to breed your dog? I've always followed the philosophy that if I could buy a better dog (better built, better temperment, better hunting ability) then why would I breed mine?

However, I also foster and spend quite a bit of time finding homes for those hunting dogs (GSP's, Pointers and the occassional Vizsla and Weim) that are abandoned at shelters - from 7 week old puppies to 5 year old dogs. There is no lack of quality shorthairs out there today and certainly no lack of them in shelters in our area either - if your dog is spectacular, then breed her, if you want another dog "just like her" - you aren't going to get it from breeding her. Those are the things I'd think about before breeding my dog. And I would never think of breeding the dog until I had at least 6-7 guaranteed buyers for the pups (guaranteed by a deposit). I wouldn't give a plug nickel for the guys that say "yes, I'd love to have a puppy from your sweetie pie if you breed her"....3 months down the road, those folks have gone up in smoke....nowhere to be seen again.

Pups are hard to sell these days - and if you're seriously going to get into it, you should be committing to that dog for the LIFE OF THE DOG. That means when the family you sold it to goes through a divorce and needs to rehome their 6 year old dog - you get it back. When the dog turns out gunshy because the idiot didn't know what he was doing and ruined a perfectly good dog - you get it back. When the shelter calls you to tell you your microchip has come up in a dog in the shelter because the owners decided the dog barked too much - you get it back. Those are the commitments that a good breeder makes to the litter he/she raises. If you're going to do it, make sure you do it right, find a breed mentor, test your dog in several venues (or at least in one), do health clearances, screen and then screen some more for good homes, and commit to the puppies for their lifetime - you are ultimately responsible for bringing them into this world and it's a serious responsibility.

[ultracarry]

IF your dog is an excellent representative of the breed (you know this by "testing" the dog in different venues; hunt tests, field trials, conformation events, obedience trials, testing for temperament, etc.) and has the appropriate health clearances, then go for it. If you have a mediocre dog in any of the above categories - then why breed this particular dog? If you're not improving the breed (and I don't mean adding to the GSP population because your dog is a swell hunter and a pretty dog) then why would you want to breed your dog? I've always followed the philosophy that if I could buy a better dog (better built, better temperment, better hunting ability) then why would I breed mine?

However, I also foster and spend quite a bit of time finding homes for those hunting dogs (GSP's, Pointers and the occassional Vizsla and Weim) that are abandoned at shelters - from 7 week old puppies to 5 year old dogs. There is no lack of quality shorthairs out there today and certainly no lack of them in shelters in our area either - if your dog is spectacular, then breed her, if you want another dog "just like her" - you aren't going to get it from breeding her. Those are the things I'd think about before breeding my dog. And I would never think of breeding the dog until I had at least 6-7 guaranteed buyers for the pups (guaranteed by a deposit). I wouldn't give a plug nickel for the guys that say "yes, I'd love to have a puppy from your sweetie pie if you breed her"....3 months down the road, those folks have gone up in smoke....nowhere to be seen again.

Pups are hard to sell these days - and if you're seriously going to get into it, you should be committing to that dog for the LIFE OF THE DOG. That means when the family you sold it to goes through a divorce and needs to rehome their 6 year old dog - you get it back. When the dog turns out gunshy because the idiot didn't know what he was doing and ruined a perfectly good dog - you get it back. When the shelter calls you to tell you your microchip has come up in a dog in the shelter because the owners decided the dog barked too much - you get it back. Those are the commitments that a good breeder makes to the litter he/she raises. If you're going to do it, make sure you do it right, find a breed mentor, test your dog in several venues (or at least in one), do health clearances, screen and then screen some more for good homes, and commit to the puppies for their lifetime - you are ultimately responsible for bringing them into this world and it's a serious responsibility.

Nice post.

[AHGSP]

IF your dog is an excellent representative of the breed (you know this by "testing" the dog in different venues; hunt tests, field trials, conformation events, obedience trials, testing for temperament, etc.) and has the appropriate health clearances, then go for it. If you have a mediocre dog in any of the above categories - then why breed this particular dog? If you're not improving the breed (and I don't mean adding to the GSP population because your dog is a swell hunter and a pretty dog) then why would you want to breed your dog? I've always followed the philosophy that if I could buy a better dog (better built, better temperment, better hunting ability) then why would I breed mine?

However, I also foster and spend quite a bit of time finding homes for those hunting dogs (GSP's, Pointers and the occassional Vizsla and Weim) that are abandoned at shelters - from 7 week old puppies to 5 year old dogs. There is no lack of quality shorthairs out there today and certainly no lack of them in shelters in our area either - if your dog is spectacular, then breed her, if you want another dog "just like her" - you aren't going to get it from breeding her. Those are the things I'd think about before breeding my dog. And I would never think of breeding the dog until I had at least 6-7 guaranteed buyers for the pups (guaranteed by a deposit). I wouldn't give a plug nickel for the guys that say "yes, I'd love to have a puppy from your sweetie pie if you breed her"....3 months down the road, those folks have gone up in smoke....nowhere to be seen again.

Pups are hard to sell these days - and if you're seriously going to get into it, you should be committing to that dog for the LIFE OF THE DOG. That means when the family you sold it to goes through a divorce and needs to rehome their 6 year old dog - you get it back. When the dog turns out gunshy because the idiot didn't know what he was doing and ruined a perfectly good dog - you get it back. When the shelter calls you to tell you your microchip has come up in a dog in the shelter because the owners decided the dog barked too much - you get it back. Those are the commitments that a good breeder makes to the litter he/she raises. If you're going to do it, make sure you do it right, find a breed mentor, test your dog in several venues (or at least in one), do health clearances, screen and then screen some more for good homes, and commit to the puppies for their lifetime - you are ultimately responsible for bringing them into this world and it's a serious responsibility.

Nice post.

Ditto.

The first question you have to answer is; Why do I want to breed my dog?