Another Dog Food Question

[Garrison]

Hello all, in my first post I would like to say thanks for all the good info that I have poached off this site. If the gun dog forum shut down I would probably be much more productive in the evening hours. I have read many post on feed and as much as I could find on the Internet but have a few questions about my particular situation. I fed my dogs pro plan for some time but was introduced to Canidae by a friend about 3 years ago and have had great results. My local feed store carries the 44 lb bag for $39 and the 12th bag is free. My stock dog and the retriever do great on the ALS formula 26/14.5. My dilemma is after the old Setters passed away who were on pro plan before we switched we added a new English Setter pup. He is currently 13 weeks old and doing well on the Canidae with a bit of fish oil. Would the setter benefit from a higher protein and fat food at this point in his life? The two 30/20 that I can get from the feed store that I frequent is either Diamond EA or Canidae grain free. $60 for a bag of grain free dog food just ain't going to happen so I guess the only 30/20 is Diamond. Or I can get Kirkland at costco which is a bit closer to 30/20 than Canidae. Should I keep the Setter on the Canidae and feed a bit more or throw in an egg out of the coop and a bit of oil when he is being worked or switch the setter over to diamond. Would rather have one dog food can in the garage if possible.

Thoughts?

[Cajun Casey]

I vote stay with Canidae ALS. The antioxidant content is great and it should do a fine job with very little supplementing.

[mcbosco]

That is a great value. If you want to give a bit more protein Canidae has a new formula like ALS but with just rice and 29% protein.

$39 for 44lbs and 12th bag free is an excellent deal. Where do you live? That price seems to be available everywhere in NJ.

[Garrison]

I live in Southern California, the only real cold weather my dogs see is when we go out of state to hunt. It is a good price for how well my dogs have done while on Canidae and their consumption went noticeably down. Coats teeth and energy are good, and you could set a watch to when they have to relieve them selves. Regular Diamond Naturals is about .20 a pound more at my feed store than Canidae not including the free bag, they move a lot of it off the shelves I guess. I am happy with the product and would much rather support my local store than a big box outfit, just don't know if it is going to be little too regular unleaded for the new guy and the grain free is just too spendy for me.

[ezzy333]

Stick with what is working. No need to switch if you are happy with the results and can afford it. Either of the two products are good if you decide to change.

Ezzy

[Hondo]

Hi Garrison,

Welcome to the forum.

As has been stated to me and the millions of others that have asked dog food questions on this forum, "buy what works for your dog(s), is reasonably priced, and easily available."

It has been explained to me that the protein/fat % should be based on the individual dog's activity level. Thus, you could feed a 30/20 or a 26/18 or any other percentage and just feed the dog more or less food depending on activity level and physical condition.

You might find this link to be helpful. I know it helped me a lot.
viewtopic.php?f=88&t=30807

[vernahll2]

Why try to fix something that isn't broken? If your dogs are doing fine with the present food plan, stick with it. of course, you'll have to change the quantity of the servings as the pup grows up and according to how active the dogs are.

[Hondo]

Why try to fix something that isn't broken? If your dogs are doing fine with the present food plan, stick with it. of course, you'll have to change the quantity of the servings as the pup grows up and according to how active the dogs are.

+1

[Garrison]

Thanks for the replies. Hondo the link you sent was very interesting. Some really good info, I feel pretty good about what he is on now. The puppy numbers they recommended are very close to what he is getting now, the calcium is a bit higher. Sounds like 30/20 is the gold standard so thought it may be better to get him closer to those guranteed numbers. I don't mind feeding a bit extra as long as stool looks good and he is keeping weight, if he doesn't looks like we will try plan B.

Thanks again for the advice and info.

[grouseguy]

+1 to Canidae ALS, has worked the best for my pups

[slistoe]

Most dogs do not work hard enough to actually need a 30/20 ration.

[cutty72]

Most dogs do not work hard enough to actually need a 30/20 ration.

IDK, my lab needed 1/3 again the quantity of food when dropping to the 24/20 to maintain weight. And that was in the off season.

[ezzy333]

Most dogs do not work hard enough to actually need a 30/20 ration.

IDK, my lab needed 1/3 again the quantity of food when dropping to the 24/20 to maintain weight. And that was in the off season.

The protein in a feed does very little toward providing calories or maintaining weight. The calories come from the fat and carbs.

Ezzy

[slistoe]

24/20 ration? What brand is that. That is a pretty high fat ratio in the feed.

[birddogger]

Sport mix has a 24/20 ration.

Charlie

[mcclinj]

That Diamond EA is actually 32/25 and was either too strong for my pup or he didn't handle an ingredient well. There's a lot of people who's dogs' do well on it though, it depends on each dog.

-John

[ACooper]

That Diamond EA is actually 32/25 and was either too strong for my pup or he didn't handle an ingredient well. There's a lot of people who's dogs' do well on it though, it depends on each dog.

-John

It can make a dog loose, some just dont handle it well.

[postoakshorthairs]

The protein in a feed does very little toward providing calories or maintaining weight. The calories come from the fat and carbs.

Ezzy

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here...just hoping you'll explain.

My recollection from college nutrition is that each gram of carbs and protien contain 4 calories and each gram of fat contains 9 calories. I do understand that the quality of the protien is related to the body's ability to utilize it but i don't understand how, in a food with quality protiens, that the protien wouldn't provide calories or help maintain weight.

[grouseguy]

The protein in a feed does very little toward providing calories or maintaining weight. The calories come from the fat and carbs.

Ezzy

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here...just hoping you'll explain.

My recollection from college nutrition is that each gram of carbs and protien contain 4 calories and each gram of fat contains 9 calories. I do understand that the quality of the protien is related to the body's ability to utilize it but i don't understand how, in a food with quality protiens, that the protien wouldn't provide calories or help maintain weight.

What he said. Wolves live primarily off of raw meat.

[ezzy333]

The protein in a feed does very little toward providing calories or maintaining weight. The calories come from the fat and carbs.

Ezzy

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here...just hoping you'll explain.

My recollection from college nutrition is that each gram of carbs and protien contain 4 calories and each gram of fat contains 9 calories. I do understand that the quality of the protien is related to the body's ability to utilize it but i don't understand how, in a food with quality protiens, that the protien wouldn't provide calories or help maintain weight.

What he said. Wolves live primarily off of raw meat.

I have never been close enough with a pack of wolves to be able to tell you what their primary food really is. They do kill for feed but they like other animals eat the stomach,intestines, and other organs first along with the vegetable matter that is included. That's important to their health and well being as they don't get a lot of vegetables though they do pick fruits and berries like other animals. Overall they seem to get enough vegetable carbs and protein to balance out the meat they consume.

Ezzy

[grouseguy]

I have never been close enough with a pack of wolves to be able to tell you what their primary food really is. They do kill for feed but they like other animals eat the stomach,intestines, and other organs first along with the vegetable matter that is included. That's important to their health and well being as they don't get a lot of vegetables though they do pick fruits and berries like other animals. Overall they seem to get enough vegetable carbs and protein to balance out the meat they consume.Ezzy

I've never been close enough to a Kodiak bear to tell you it eats salmon. yes Wolves eat the tripe and organs as well.....but they eat lots of red meat.

[CHJIII]

The protein in a feed does very little toward providing calories or maintaining weight. The calories come from the fat and carbs.

Ezzy

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here...just hoping you'll explain.

My recollection from college nutrition is that each gram of carbs and protien contain 4 calories and each gram of fat contains 9 calories. I do understand that the quality of the protien is related to the body's ability to utilize it but i don't understand how, in a food with quality protiens, that the protien wouldn't provide calories or help maintain weight.

I hate to jump into these discussions, but, proteins are mainly just used as building blocks (amino acids) for the dog or whatever to build their own proteins. Proteins are not a major source of energy. If I understand correctly they would be at the bottom of the scale for energy behind carbs and fats. Carbs are quick NRG source, fats are longterm NRG storage.

[mcbosco]

The protein in a feed does very little toward providing calories or maintaining weight. The calories come from the fat and carbs.

Ezzy

I'm not trying to be sarcastic here...just hoping you'll explain.

My recollection from college nutrition is that each gram of carbs and protien contain 4 calories and each gram of fat contains 9 calories. I do understand that the quality of the protien is related to the body's ability to utilize it but i don't understand how, in a food with quality protiens, that the protien wouldn't provide calories or help maintain weight.

This is an easy question to answer. Protein is a bad source of energy despite the fact it can be. The reason is about 30% of the calories are lost during metabolism. This is the whole idea behind high protein diets like Southbeach. Fats and carbs don't cannibalize calories the way protein does. So, the greater the proportion of calories from protein, the greater the loss of calories. Also, during the process, the metabolism of protein generates more heat.

This is why dogs on high protein, moderate fat grain-free foods lose weight, and dogs on 24/20's maintain weight.