PB&J for a snack

[Hondo]

I have read that some hunters and field trialers feed their dogs peanut butter and jelly sandwiches to their dogs to help sustain their dogs' energy levels while hunting/field trialing. I was wondering if any of the forum members do this? I can't remember where I read this, but if I remember right they used whole wheat bread, peanut butter, and I am not sure what type of jelly. I suspect that it wasn't grape jelly since I have heard that anything made from grapes is very toxic to dogs. I'm not sure if the grape thing is true or not.

Is this something that is common or do you guys and gals use something else?

-Hondo

[GUNDOGS]

You can look in the "gundog" magazine regarding feeding during hunting and they talk about how years ago guys didnt let their dogs eat AT ALL on days hunting but thats why they looked so darn skinny and tired early..in order for a dog to have energy they need proteins and fats even when hunting just not large amounts..From talking to folks who have hunted for many years alot of them believe in only feeding once a day..and not feeding at all on a day you are going to hunt(until you get home in the evening)..now meeting alot of people and asking about feeding schedules that they use alot of people do bring snacks along such as pb and j or cheese or hotdogs or even energy bars..my suggestion would be first ask your vet as they know your dog and can make a suggestion for YOUR DOG since all dogs are different and digest differently too..our friends, my husband and i always made sure our dogs ate just a bit in the morning before we went out and just gave a biscuit or small snack throughout the day if we ourselves stopped to eat then a full meal when we got home..just make sure you try the snack out on your dog while training at home first..i wouldnt give anything to my dog for the FIRST TIME while out hunting incase he/she gets sick or the runs from it while out working..also i suggest to first make sure your dog drinks, then give the snack if they want it and wait few minutes before running them immediately after..as far as pb and j it s a good snack cause it dont spoil easy and doesnt have as much smell to it as meat does which can distract the dog..and yes avoid grapes and raisins as your vet will tell you they can cause kidney issues in dogs......ruth

[mcbosco]

It does sound yummi but I would use something like sardines in oil, unless of course there is a risk of bears or big cats.

[AzDoggin]

I remember reading about one hunter who took a "pop top" can of cat food for each of his dogs.

[Hondo]

I wonder if bloat would become an issue of concern if a dog was given a snack during the hunting/field trialing day?

-Hondo

[mcbosco]

I wonder if bloat would become an issue of concern if a dog was given a snack during the hunting/field trialing day?

-Hondo

Good question. Bloat is a very complex disorder so I doubt a few sardines or a couple chunks of beef or pork fat during lunch will do any harm. Most dogs bloat on an empty stomach either while sleeping or early in the morning. Some of the new research also shows no correlation to exercise.

Breed, body weight and age seem to influence bloat risk the most. Of the the top ten breeds most likely to bloat, sporting dogs represent about half.

What I found interesting is that dogs eating kibble less than 30mm raised the risk of bloat. How many kibbles have you seen that are over an inch in size?

[ezzy333]

I wonder if bloat would become an issue of concern if a dog was given a snack during the hunting/field trialing day?

-Hondo

Probably not to a hunting dog. Might be a problem with a dog running hard like a trial dog or a greyhound. I have read many times the way a dog's metabolism works the morning feed or snack has no effect on their energy level at the time they eat. The energy they need comes from what they ate yesterday and before. Our pigions are the same way. They are fed high carbs for a couple of days before but then are released with out being fed. Dogs won't run and birds won't fly with food in the digestive tract.

Ezzy

[wems2371]

Whenever I take my dogs out, I usually have a pouch of moist type dog treats in my vest. I had one of mine out for around 1.5 hours today. We did a couple water stops, and I gave her 3 treats during that stretch. Mine usually help themself to deer and rabbit scat too. :roll:

[windswept]

I could be wrong here but I can't imagine snacking is going to be helpful in any way within a few hours time.
I feed my dogs in the morning and again at about 6 pm. On hunt days they skip breakfast.
I do give them water as often as they want it while hunting but that's it. Been doing it this way for years without any problems.

[mcbosco]

I could be wrong here but I can't imagine snacking is going to be helpful in any way within a few hours time.
I feed my dogs in the morning and again at about 6 pm. On hunt days they skip breakfast.
I do give them water as often as they want it while hunting but that's it. Been doing it this way for years without any problems.

Fats, especially coconut oil, do help. Sardines are more a "pick them up" because they are so smelly and strong tasting. The dogs luv them and they fall apart into almost nothing. They look real happy when the can opens.

[RoostersMom]

I would venture a guess that the "snack" feeders are more likely to be folks with dogs that have hypoglycemia - I have a pointer that gets weak if I hunt her in warmer weather and she needs the sugar and protein pick-me-up while we're hunting. She has had two "attacks" in the past and I avoid having that happen now. I carry honey packets for her and also have done the pb&J on occassions that I remember to bring a sandwich. I also like the restart bars. Most recently, I've tried the paste stuff - Nutrical, it is a high energy supplement that you can give to pregnant and lactating bitches as well. Works well for my dog.

[ezzy333]

I could be wrong here but I can't imagine snacking is going to be helpful in any way within a few hours time.
I feed my dogs in the morning and again at about 6 pm. On hunt days they skip breakfast.
I do give them water as often as they want it while hunting but that's it. Been doing it this way for years without any problems.

Fats, especially coconut oil, do help. Sardines are more a "pick them up" because they are so smelly and strong tasting. The dogs luv them and they fall apart into almost nothing. They look real happy when the can opens.

I was reading just yesterday that carbs are used from the white cells for the short time energy and then the fats carried by the red cells are used when the carbs run out. That explains why we try to load them with carbs(corn) before heavy exercise. The fats are there for the recovery period and to maintain the energy level for their normal level afterwards.

Ezzy

[wems2371]

As I mentioned in my post, my dogs will eat scat afield. I know that's not uncommon, but both dogs know better (especially the older one), to do that in front of me. They don't start a hunt doing that, but after some time afield, I will almost definitely find one of them gorging on it desperately--like it's their last meal. You could say they're trying to be cheats, but they won't try to hide it, nor obey promptly when I'm calling them off--and the older dog is extremely obedient. Maybe my observations are wrong, but I figure that is their way of getting what their body needs at the time, and I figure I'd rather substitute with a snack here and there. And most times early in the hunt, both will refuse the snack and the water altogether. Again, I might be totally cracked in my thinking (and probably am ), but I figure a treat morsel here and there can't hurt much...and I know how I feel when I'm working hard and running on empty.

[GUNDOGS]

As I mentioned in my post, my dogs will eat scat afield. I know that's not uncommon, but both dogs know better (especially the older one), to do that in front of me. They don't start a hunt doing that, but after some time afield, I will almost definitely find one of them gorging on it desperately--like it's their last meal. You could say they're trying to be cheats, but they won't try to hide it, nor obey promptly when I'm calling them off--and the older dog is extremely obedient. Maybe my observations are wrong, but I figure that is their way of getting what their body needs at the time, and I figure I'd rather substitute with a snack here and there. And most times early in the hunt, both will refuse the snack and the water altogether. Again, I might be totally cracked in my thinking (and probably am ), but I figure a treat morsel here and there can't hurt much...and I know how I feel when I'm working hard and running on empty.

100% agreed!!..snacks cannot hurt them, if they dont want it they will refuse it..but i am with you not many people work all day especially work hard with a totally empty stomach so why would your dog..geez have you ever seen what athletes eat on the days of their event to load up on proteins and carbs(micheal phelps)..i dont care what anyone says if your dog hasnt eaten a thing for 24 hours hes hungry!!!...ruth

[windswept]

geez have you ever seen what athletes eat on the days of their event to load up on proteins and carbs(micheal phelps)..i dont care what anyone says if your dog hasnt eaten a thing for 24 hours hes hungry!!!...ruth

Actually, athletes are not eating a great deal on the day they are competing, at least not before the event. Quite the opposite, they eat pretty light on race day. You are partially right, though. Highly competitive athletes do burn through a tremendous amount of food but not right before or during a competition. Anyway, back to the dogs. It seems I read somewhere that full digestion is complete in 20 hours. It seems like I read it here??? Someone help me out.

[GUNDOGS]

geez have you ever seen what athletes eat on the days of their event to load up on proteins and carbs(micheal phelps)..i dont care what anyone says if your dog hasnt eaten a thing for 24 hours hes hungry!!!...ruth

Actually, athletes are not eating a great deal on the day they are competing, at least not before the event. Quite the opposite, they eat pretty light on race day. You are partially right, though. Highly competitive athletes do burn through a tremendous amount of food but not right before or during a competition. Anyway, back to the dogs. It seems I read somewhere that full digestion is complete in 20 hours. It seems like I read it here??? Someone help me out.

Ok micheal phelps being my example eats 12,000 calories a day while "training", which training means swimming and working out for 8 to 10 hours 7 days a week..he eats an 8 egg omelette, potatoes, toast, steak, pasta, 3 glasses of milk, rice, 11 pancakes, 1000 calorie energy drink, tomatoes and an apple 4 hours PRIOR to a long hard day of training and eats this each day with some substitutes but still 12,000 calories..then on race day he eats 4,ooo calories of pasta and an energy drink at least 6 hours before his events..he eats less calories on event days only because its not as long of exercise as his training days..i think my point is even if its "training" days 12,000 calories a day proves you need oil for your engine just as dogs do..although, we are talking dogs and snacks here, not recommending 12,000 cal for a dog it was an example..and complete digestion takes between 24 and 72 hours in most cases..ruth

[ezzy333]

As I mentioned in my post, my dogs will eat scat afield. I know that's not uncommon, but both dogs know better (especially the older one), to do that in front of me. They don't start a hunt doing that, but after some time afield, I will almost definitely find one of them gorging on it desperately--like it's their last meal. You could say they're trying to be cheats, but they won't try to hide it, nor obey promptly when I'm calling them off--and the older dog is extremely obedient. Maybe my observations are wrong, but I figure that is their way of getting what their body needs at the time, and I figure I'd rather substitute with a snack here and there. And most times early in the hunt, both will refuse the snack and the water altogether. Again, I might be totally cracked in my thinking (and probably am ), but I figure a treat morsel here and there can't hurt much...and I know how I feel when I'm working hard and running on empty.

100% agreed!!..snacks cannot hurt them, if they dont want it they will refuse it..but i am with you not many people work all day especially work hard with a totally empty stomach so why would your dog..geez have you ever seen what athletes eat on the days of their event to load up on proteins and carbs(micheal phelps)..i dont care what anyone says if your dog hasnt eaten a thing for 24 hours hes hungry!!!...ruth

I am not going to argue whether it will hurt them or not but I will question your line of thinking. You are talking want and not need. I want a dish of ice cream but I don't need it and what I get out of it is more harmful than helpful to mu body. When I am excited to go hunting I too lose my appetite even for treats but after running for a while and not finding much that pile of ice cream(deer poop,always have had trouble telling the difference) is worth stopping for and grabbing a few bites before someone hollers at me. Guess it just a different way of thinking and with my lower IQ I think more like a dog than most I suspicion.

Ezzy

[wems2371]

Well, I can't (and won't) argue my observations, so I'll just say you're right! What's your come back now?

[ezzy333]

I'm uglier than You!

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

Ezzy,

Here is a much healthier alternative to ice cream.

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/giad ... index.html

[jayhawkj]

This is a good topic, I have always fed extra the evening before a hunt and then not again until after the hunt. My reasoning is my fear of bloat, perhaps it's not a concern I need to worry about but I've just never wanted to chance it.

[twofeathers]

I usually go with the two hours before and two hours after theory. Water and a beneful snack or two out in the field. Pull usually doesn't want the first snack or water but will also as wems stated enjoy some chocolate kix cereal left behind. Not to mention finding himself some cologne to roll in.

The PB&J would probably be pretty effective I would think for a quick energy supplement.

MCbosco I'm only poking fun but does your sniffer work? With all the references to tripe and smelly sardines I bet I could find you in a crowd.

[mcbosco]

Does mine work? LOL, I seem to be immune to these bad smells. Sardines are absolute heaven to me. I still eat them myself on a saltine cracker. I also put anchovies into almost everything I make. I have a big jar of salt cured anchovies and I throw them into soup.

[GUNDOGS]

Does mine work? LOL, I seem to be immune to these bad smells. Sardines are absolute heaven to me. I still eat them myself on a saltine cracker. I also put anchovies into almost everything I make. I have a big jar of salt cured anchovies and I throw them into soup.

mmm i love anchovies in a cesar salad!!..with all that salt how is your blood pressure mcbosco ....ruth

[BillGraves]

I could be wrong here but I can't imagine snacking is going to be helpful in any way within a few hours time.
I feed my dogs in the morning and again at about 6 pm. On hunt days they skip breakfast.
I do give them water as often as they want it while hunting but that's it. Been doing it this way for years without any problems.

Fats, especially coconut oil, do help. Sardines are more a "pick them up" because they are so smelly and strong tasting. The dogs luv them and they fall apart into almost nothing. They look real happy when the can opens.

I was reading just yesterday that carbs are used from the white cells for the short time energy and then the fats carried by the red cells are used when the carbs run out. That explains why we try to load them with carbs(corn) before heavy exercise. The fats are there for the recovery period and to maintain the energy level for their normal level afterwards.

Ezzy

I don't know if it's the same in dogs and people but with us 2-legged folks, carbs are ALWAYS the first energy source, followed by fat and lastly protein. Protein is only used in dire situations like ultra-marathon runners and the body actually starts to break down its own muscle and use it as fuel. Our bodies can only handle a small amount of protein and if unused, it goes to waste. All my grad classes in exercise science recommended a 60/20/20 diet (60%carbs/20%fat/20%protein) for training athletes but I'm sure dogs are very different.

[AzDoggin]

I don't know if it's the same in dogs and people but with us 2-legged folks, carbs are ALWAYS the first energy source, followed by fat and lastly protein. Protein is only used in dire situations like ultra-marathon runners and the body actually starts to break down its own muscle and use it as fuel. Our bodies can only handle a small amount of protein and if unused, it goes to waste. All my grad classes in exercise science recommended a 60/20/20 diet (60%carbs/20%fat/20%protein) for training athletes but I'm sure dogs are very different.

Yeppers, hence the phrase "carb loading" a couple days before a big bike race or marathon for the two-legged. I'll bet there is information out there on preparing performance dogs, e.g., the Iditarod Sled Race or a big greyhound race.

Here's one source http://jn.nutrition.org/content/128/12/2686S.full It does look like the fat component is important in the 4-legged:

In humans, high carbohydrate diets increase stamina because they increase muscle glycogen (Hultman et al. 1994). In dogs, however, high fat/low carbohydrate diets increase stamina. Beagles ran for 20 miles (140 min) when fed high fat (53–67% of energy) diets but became exhausted after only 15 miles (100 min) when fed a moderate fat (29% of energy) diet (Downey et al. 1980). A high fat/high protein diet containing no carbohydrate resulted in better performance and less evidence of exertional rhabdomyolysis when fed to sled dogs (Kronfeld 1973). A high carbohydrate (59% of energy) low fat (16% of energy) diet fed to sled dogs resulted in higher resting muscle glycogen concentrations compared with a high fat (62% of energy), low carbohydrate (14% of energy) diet, but glycogen was used more rapidly during a race; thus the final muscle glycogen concentration was unchanged (Reynolds et al. 1996). .
.
Commercial diets.

Sled dogs appear to require a high protein (>30 or 40% of energy), high fat (>50% of energy) diet. Most extruded diets contain >25% of energy as carbohydrate. These extruded diets must, therefore, contain either <30% of energy as protein or <50% of energy as fat. High protein, high fat canned diets added to extruded diets before and during periods of heavy exercise may improve the stamina of working dogs, but increased cost can be prohibitive. Alternatively, adding beef to extruded diets increases dietary protein and fat because beef contains 25–40% of energy as protein and 60–75% of energy as fat (Anonymous 1997). Greyhounds, however, appear to require a moderately high fat (30–50% of energy), moderate protein (24% of energy) diet. It is possible, therefore, that a commercial extruded diet with this formula may give better performance than a high protein meat-based recipe.

[birddogger]

Does mine work? LOL, I seem to be immune to these bad smells. Sardines are absolute heaven to me. I still eat them myself on a saltine cracker. I also put anchovies into almost everything I make. I have a big jar of salt cured anchovies and I throw them into soup.

I am with you on the sardines!

Charlie

[ultracarry]

The first time I entered my dog in broke stakes she had her first broke stake followed by her puppy and Derby stakes all within two hours... I haven't heard of peanut butter and jelly but I give my dog a can of spam. That stuff is like crack for dogs and I seen her run better the second and third brace better than her first with more energy.

[GUNDOGS]

The first time I entered my dog in broke stakes she had her first broke stake followed by her puppy and Derby stakes all within two hours... I haven't heard of peanut butter and jelly but I give my dog a can of spam. That stuff is like crack for dogs and I seen her run better the second and third brace better than her first with more energy.

Spam!!..i ll have to try it with the dogs when we are out for a long day..sealed in the can, pull top lid and dont need to be refridgerated..good idea!!..we have givin the dogs hotdogs, liver pieces, energy bars and some kibble watered down a bit as snacks, gonna have to give the spam a try....ruth

[birddogger]

I would have to bring plenty....I love that stuff!!

Charlie

[northUpland]

Just my 2 cents! Morning of hunt I feed one full 2.75oz Natural Balance roll about 2 hours before going out. Carry another roll in my vest and treat throughout. For glucose/carb/easily & quickly digestable source. On average my EP and I hunt 4-6hours per day. Night post hunt ration is at min 2.5 cups+ of hi protein/hi fat kibble(depending on work conditions/time topped with another 1/2 roll and atleast 6 squirts of pure salmon oil plus) Before bed 1 treat cup of liquid peanut butter flavored glucosamine supp(Ubuntu) for recovery help. We normal hunt 3-4 days per week during the season so this brief round up can get varied depending on the "next days plan" Here in Wisco fall is cold and having my dog with something highly digesable in his stomach helps ward off cold and possible hypothermia. Plus, hydrating as much a possible. A high glucose treat like Nat Balance rolls are a perfect fit for us given his mojo and conditions we normal find ourselves in! -Mark

P.S. I bet my EP's digestive tract and metabolism is much faster than Micheal Phelps's!