Dry Skin with a GSP?

APATZ_GSP · Post by **APATZ_GSP** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:59 am

My question is ever since my pup was about two months old (5 months now) he's had dry skin. wasnt so much a problem until I started noticing a spot on his side that was getting bigger with patchy hair. So when I took him to the vet they said it probably was a bug bite and he was itching more because of the dry skin thats why it wasnt getting better. The vet gave me Omega 3 pills to put on his food and said it would start to clear up but the patch isnt getting any smaller or bigger and the skin is still really dry. So has anyone else had these problems or know how to fix them because it sucks having people look at me and the dog and ask whats that can I still pet him, not like hes going to let them pet him anyway (too hyper not aggressive lol).

Thanks in advance, I hate seeing him dig his side just wish it would go away.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:05 am

Treat it topically - any ointment that is anti-bacterial, anti-fungal & anti-inflammatory will work. The 03 supplement will help but it will take time. Healing will take far longer if he is scratching it or an infection sets in. Something very minor can turn into a mess if it is not allowed to heal properly.

Figuring out what caused it is very difficult, but try. Bedding, cleaning products etc. I doubt it has anything to do with a bug bite.

There is also a syndrome that pops up this time of year that is sunlight-related. The shorter days can cause alopecia.

If you have noticed dry skin since he was a pup, then you might wanna try a new diet regime or a good supplement.

Skin issues are frustrating.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:59 am

Some times finding Mange mites can be difficult specially scarcoptic mange...Might just treat for Mange and that will rule them out it is easy enough.

this has a few other issues http://www.vetslovepets.com/articles/13 ... Page1.html

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:21 am

kninebirddog wrote:Some times finding Mange mites can be difficult specially scarcoptic mange...Might just treat for Mange and that will rule them out it is easy enough.

this has a few other issues http://www.vetslovepets.com/articles/13 ... Page1.html

Right on and pour a tablespoo of oil over his feed for a while and see if it helps. If not then start looking at other factors that night be involved. The thing to remember if you really want to find out what helps or works do them one at a time and give each change a few weeks to work. These things always take time to find and correct.

Ezzy

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 8:38 am

Have your vet do a skin scrape so you know what to treat. What you are describing could be any one of several parasites, an allergic reaction to a flea bite, bacteria, fungus or a combination of causes. You can supplement until you and the dog are drowning in fatty acids, but if you've got a bacterial infection to deal with, it will only persist. Find the cause, don't treat the symptoms.

proudag08 · Post by **proudag08** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:03 am

Cajun Casey wrote:Find the cause, don't treat the symptoms...

+1 great advice...

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:54 am

That is ultimately what has to happen but the discomfort (which causes itching) and risk of topical infection have to be dealt with in the short-term. Skin issues can get out of control fast.

Dogs don't know any better, they lick and scratch themselves to no end.

APATZ_GSP · Post by **APATZ_GSP** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:11 am

Thanks for the info I am going to set up another appointment for the vet. And what kind of oil should I use in his food? Would the oil mess his stomach up?

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:25 am

APATZ_GSP wrote:Thanks for the info I am going to set up another appointment for the vet. And what kind of oil should I use in his food? Would the oil mess his stomach up?

I like wheat germ oil if there is already damaged skin because the Vitamin E helps repair through antioxidant action. About a tablespoon per day, mixed in the food, should be fine. Remember, most good to better quality dog foods are preserved with a coating of fat including Vitamin E, so it's something his system should already be used to.

Fish oil, salmon oil and cod liver oil are all the rage right now, but I've seen them cause flaking and greasy coat issues. I actually prefer a combination of fish, flax and borage oil. It is usually available at drugstores as Omega 3-6-9 in a 3000 mg soft gel. One a day for dogs is sufficient.

You might also get an alpha-hydroxy skin spray to decrease the itching and flaking, but, again, it could aggravate a bacterial infection.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 10:38 am

The ideal oil is a blend so the Omega 3-6-9's are aligned and the stores are filled with these. With skin irritation, as opposed to coat quality, fish oil is probably the easy way to go but not cheap.

There are prepared supplements like Nupro, K9 Show Stoppper, Impact that have been around for decades that are easier and cheaper and balanced.

It might not be a deficiency at all. Treat it both ways, there is a good chance with some topical care it will go away.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:43 am

Any oil will work. I use the cheapest oil I can find if I plan om using a lot of itbut normally just borrow a bottle of Canola or what ever we have in the kitchen. Only problem I have had is the dogs like to wait to eat till I pour a couple of spoonfuls on their feed. I use it quite a bit in winter for the dogs spending their time out side. Just a way to increase the calories without increasing their feed quite as much and it seems dry conditions always increase in the cold weather if you are going to have them. I've tried a buch of different oils and can find little difference in them except for linseed and that seems to have more effect om the coat and skin than any of the others if you use it over a longer period of time.

Ezzy

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:54 am

ezzy333 wrote:Any oil will work. I use the cheapest oil I can find if I plan om using a lot of itbut normally just borrow a bottle of Canola or what ever we have in the kitchen. Only problem I have had is the dogs like to wait to eat till I pour a couple of spoonfuls on their feed. I use it quite a bit in winter for the dogs spending their time out side. Just a way to increase the calories without increasing their feed quite as much and it seems dry conditions always increase in the cold weather if you are going to have them. I've tried a buch of different oils and can find little difference in them except for linseed and that seems to have more effect om the coat and skin than any of the others if you use it over a longer period of time.

Ezzy

You are spoiling them. Try giving the oil after they eat. I don't give any raw until after the dry is gone because he will pick it out.

Just to clarify, you mean Flaxseed oil." Linseed oil" is the term used for the stuff you buy at the hardware store for painting.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:04 pm

Regardless, if the patch continues to worsen, it's biopsy time. Some microorganisms just set up housekeeping and refuse to leave. UV treatment is another option.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 12:17 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:Regardless, if the patch continues to worsen, it's biopsy time. Some microorganisms just set up housekeeping and refuse to leave. UV treatment is another option.

Agreed

ezzy

Dave Quindt · Post by **Dave Quindt** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:09 pm

Is there a pedigree on your dog available anywhere? PM me if you want to take this offline.

Vonzeppelinkennels · Post by **Vonzeppelinkennels** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:16 pm

I know what your thinkin Dave,that same thought crossed my mind.HOPE NOT!!

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:59 pm

Mine too but wasn't sure we needed to rehash it on here. Work with Him Dave and let us know .

Ezzy

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:41 pm

A year and a half later I am still trying to figure what my 2 dogs skin problem is.

Multiple scrapings but no mites.
Treated for mange anyways but no difference.

Food , bedding etc. etc. changed.

Prednisone cleans it up but you can't be on prednisone all the time.

Next step is to go to the Veterinary College in Guelph for a deep skin/punch biopsy.

I put a dog down before when it health problems reached the point of needing to re mortgage the house and there was no hope for improvement.

But these skin problems also drain the bank account , but you can't put a dog down for that.

DRiving me crazy.

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:54 pm

How much time does this dog spend outside in the sun?

Post by **Sharon** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:29 pm

** two , 2 hour runs a week.

** 1 hour a day out

** in Canada , so sun is at a premium from Nov. to April.

** mother and daughter so there may be a genetic component

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:37 pm

Sharon wrote:** two , 2 hour runs a week.

** 1 hour a day out

** in Canada , so sun is at a premium from Nov. to April.

** mother and daughter so there may be a genetic component

Checked for tick borne illnesses? Thyroid? It may be lack of sunlight, so D3 and/or UV could help. Also, zinc might be beneficial since they are white dogs (judging from your avatar). Just some thoughts.......

Post by **kninebirddog** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:48 pm

http://www.pemphigus.org/images/pdf/Dia ... ndDogs.pdf

APATZ_GSP · Post by **APATZ_GSP** » Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:51 pm

thanks for all the info got a vet appointment for a scraping and got the omega 3-6-9 pills so im starting those tomorrow. thanks again gotta love the net and this forum i have learn so much in the 5 months i have had my pup thanks

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:37 pm

Cajun Casey wrote:
Sharon wrote:** two , 2 hour runs a week.

** 1 hour a day out

** in Canada , so sun is at a premium from Nov. to April.

** mother and daughter so there may be a genetic component
Checked for tick borne illnesses? Thyroid? It may be lack of sunlight, so D3 and/or UV could help. Also, zinc might be beneficial since they are white dogs (judging from your avatar). Just some thoughts.......

Thank you for the ideas and for the link kninebirddog.

proudag08 · Post by **proudag08** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:00 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Mine too but wasn't sure we needed to rehash it on here. Work with Him Dave and let us know .

Ezzy

Vonzeppelinkennels wrote:I know what your thinkin Dave,that same thought crossed my mind.HOPE NOT!!

anybody mind giving me a lead... PM if you must... Just want to know if there is something in a pedigree I should look out for?

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:10 pm

There is an issue which is known just in the GSP breed and Hopefully that is not what this GSP pup has...thus why he was possibly asked about the pedigree off on the side.

In my first post there is a link which cover it a little http://www.vetslovepets.com/articles/13 ... Page1.html

Here is a little more about it

http://www.gspca.org/Health/lupoid-dermatosis.html

APATZ_GSP · Post by **APATZ_GSP** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:13 pm

just wondering how are you able to tell with the pedigree?

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:23 pm

You can't tell but there are several bloodlines that are known as carriers.

Ezzy

APATZ_GSP · Post by **APATZ_GSP** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:31 pm

ok thats what i figured i sent my pedigree to dave last night just waiting on a reply

Dave Quindt · Post by **Dave Quindt** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:37 pm

I PM'ed Allen back, but wanted to post here as well.

Everyone can start breathing again.

Based on the pedigree I told him to keep working with his vet to rule out the normal stuff, as the pedigree is far from a "smoking gun".

If his vet comes up empty, or the condition continues to worsen, I told him to contact me and I'd get him in touch with the skin disease experts. No need to rule out the obscure stuff before he rules out the basic stuff.

FYI,
Dave

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 8:59 pm

Thanks Dave I just cringe hearing skin condition and a GSP

So nice deep breathe taken and hopefully something simple

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:47 pm

Most integumentary disorders are seldom simple. Even something as common as demodectitis can be mediated by thyroid imbalances and other autoimmune factors. Even if a topical sensitivity is probable, a punch biopsy will help determine why the dog is susceptible. Sometimes the angle of the hair as it emerges from the folicle is a factor, for example. That would certainly not be as common in GSPs as in breeds with "brush" coats, but it does affect how the skin responds to allergens.

APATZ_GSP · Post by **APATZ_GSP** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:00 am

Just a quick update for all the people that gave me info. i took my dog to the vet today and did a scrapping, found out that he has localized Demodectic mange and i guess pups between 3 -9 months can get it. Plus side to this is its not contagious and the patch is about the size of a half dollar which the vet said should clear up in about 4 to 6 weeks. The reason why the vet didnt see this last time is because the patch didnt have any signs of mange at all. thanks for the help

twofeathers · Post by **twofeathers** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:26 am

ezzy333 wrote:You can't tell but there are several bloodlines that are known as carriers.

Ezzy

Could you PM me any info on this. Just curious.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:09 am

twofeathers wrote:
ezzy333 wrote:You can't tell but there are several bloodlines that are known as carriers.

Ezzy
Could you PM me any info on this. Just curious.

Dave Quindt is the person to ask

Cajun Casey · Post by **Cajun Casey** » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:52 pm

I'm glad your pup is recovering from something simple. With time, his immune system should strengthen and the problem will go away. On a related note, a friend recently scooped up a little stray in a parking lot who was totally eaten up with demodicosis. Vet gave her a broad spectrum antimicrobial shampoo to kill the secondary bacterial and fungal infections and some cortisone lotion. The little dog is growing new hair on clean skin in less than two weeks.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:47 am

APATZ_GSP wrote:Just a quick update for all the people that gave me info. i took my dog to the vet today and did a scrapping, found out that he has localized Demodectic mange and i guess pups between 3 -9 months can get it. Plus side to this is its not contagious and the patch is about the size of a half dollar which the vet said should clear up in about 4 to 6 weeks. The reason why the vet didnt see this last time is because the patch didnt have any signs of mange at all. thanks for the help

Wow demodectic mange and no signs of it on the ears, face or legs? It will clear up. Some vets recommend extra protein until it clears up.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:05 am

Normally demodetic mange will go unnoticed ...but when it gets to a point where the dog can not keep it under control to maybe a tiny little spot that is a sign of an suppressed immune system. As for where it will show up...that can be any where
This is why most vets do not like to treat it at first as a stronger immune system will get it back under control

Sometimes things can suppress the immune system which triggers a pup to even show signs...Being separated from a litter is one of those trigger points. So it can be stress related to an immune system which is compromised by other issues.

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:29 am

All true, but demodectic mange is often misdiagnosed. It is tricky because there is a natural population to take into account. I will defer to the vet but a patch where it has been described is not typical. I must have sponsored 30 or 40 rescues over the years and they all had it on the face, ears, around the eyes and forelegs.