Is a high protein/fat % dog food always better?

[Hondo]

I was wondering if a high protein/fat % dog food is always better? I currently feed my dog Loyall Active Adult 26/19 and she does great on it. I was wondering if there is any benefit to switching her to Loyall Professional 31/20? Is it worth feeding the higher protein/fat % feed? Do the dogs gain a greater benefit? What about dogs that sleep outside vs. indoor dogs?

I subscribe to Outdoor Life magazine and they had an article in the latest issue talking about dog nutrition. I forget if they actually mentioned it in the article, but the performance dog food that they sited as an example was a 31/20 % dog food.

Any comments, insight, etc. would be appreciated.

Hondo

[big steve46]

Like other brands, You probably only need the Performance if you are working the dog hard. I too feed the Active Adult to my 18 mos old Llewellin Setter. I have fed it for over a year with great results. About a year ago, I fed a bag of their Performance, and he did well on it also. As you know, Loyall is a feed that is well assimilated and efficiently utilized. Several of their formulas have nearly identical ingredients, but are balanced a bit differently.

My dog sleeps in a doghouse that sits in a shed outside. I believe the amount of fat in AA is adequate for heat and energy.

[birddogger]

I was wondering if a high protein/fat % dog food is always better? I currently feed my dog Loyall Active Adult 26/19 and she does great on it. I was wondering if there is any benefit to switching her to Loyall Professional 31/20? Is it worth feeding the higher protein/fat % feed? Do the dogs gain a greater benefit? What about dogs that sleep outside vs. indoor dogs?

I subscribe to Outdoor Life magazine and they had an article in the latest issue talking about dog nutrition. I forget if they actually mentioned it in the article, but the performance dog food that they sited as an example was a 31/20 % dog food.

Any comments, insight, etc. would be appreciated.

Hondo

You say she does great on it, so I would see no benefit in switching.

Charlie

[ezzy333]

A simple answer to your question is itis important till you get to the dog's requirements and anything above that is not.m mMost all of our dog foods today are over that level and a higher level could be more detrimental than helpful. The dogs required level depends on a lot of thigs such as outside temps, activity level, and to a lesser extent even the size and breed may cause a difference.

Let your dog tell you if you are feeding enbough by its condition. That tells you a whole lot more than anyone on here can tell you. Your dog knows best so watch and listen to what it is telling you by its body and coat condition and to a lesser extent it's energy level but that is thing that takes a long time to show compared to the other indicators.

Ezzy

[Hondo]

I was wondering if a high protein/fat % dog food is always better? I currently feed my dog Loyall Active Adult 26/19 and she does great on it. I was wondering if there is any benefit to switching her to Loyall Professional 31/20? Is it worth feeding the higher protein/fat % feed? Do the dogs gain a greater benefit? What about dogs that sleep outside vs. indoor dogs?

I subscribe to Outdoor Life magazine and they had an article in the latest issue talking about dog nutrition. I forget if they actually mentioned it in the article, but the performance dog food that they sited as an example was a 31/20 % dog food.

Any comments, insight, etc. would be appreciated.

Hondo

You say she does great on it, so I would see no benefit in switching.

Charlie

My dog is doing great on what I am feeding her, but at the same time how does a person know if their dog could be doing better with a higher protein/fat % dog food. I would imagine that many of the hunting dogs owned by forum members are thought of as athletes. And since I consider my dog an athletes I just want to make sure my dog is getting the proper nutrition to be in top physical hunting form.

Hondo

[Hondo]

A simple answer to your question is itis important till you get to the dog's requirements and anything above that is not.m mMost all of our dog foods today are over that level and a higher level could be more detrimental than helpful. The dogs required level depends on a lot of thigs such as outside temps, activity level, and to a lesser extent even the size and breed may cause a difference.

Let your dog tell you if you are feeding enbough by its condition. That tells you a whole lot more than anyone on here can tell you. Your dog knows best so watch and listen to what it is telling you by its body and coat condition and to a lesser extent it's energy level but that is thing that takes a long time to show compared to the other indicators.

Ezzy

My question is not about whether I am feeding my dog enough. I also understand that I can tell by looking at my dogs body and coat condition. I was just wondering if there is an inherent benefit to feeding a dog a higher protein/fat % dog food. I also understand that each dog is an individual. All things being equal does a feed that is 31/20 better than a 26/19?

Maybe it is the law of diminishing returns, at some point more protein and more fat stops benefiting the dog.

Does feeding my dog more of the 26/19 feed the same as if I was feeding 31/20? Is the difference then the quantity of dog food that is given to a dog to eat?

Hondo

Hondo

[big steve46]

If you hunt your dog every other day hard, then you might want to go to the 31/20. Otherwise, stay with the 26/19. At times, your dog might need a bit more, but you can tell that by how the dog acts, looks, and performs.

[birddogger]

My dog is doing great on what I am feeding her, but at the same time how does a person if their dog could be doing better with a higher protein/fat % dog food. I would imagine that many of the hunting dogs owned by forum members are thought of as atheletes. And since I consider my dog an athletes I just want to make sure my dog is getting the proper nutrition to be in top physical hunting form.

Hondo

You are correct, I also consider my dogs athletes. I was only saying that if they are staying in good shape and performing well, I see no added benefit to switching formulas. Now, if I were to change my diet, there may be some benefits.

Charlie

[claybuster_aa]

I was wondering if a high protein/fat % dog food is always better? Hondo

I would think it depends upon what kind of protein. Animal source? Yes. Soy...Plant Protein? No.

Charlie

[ezzy333]

The problem is that the dog doesn't use protein but uses the amino acids that make up what we call protein. They don't care where those individual amino acids come from. The reason we use animal and plant sources is they tyend to carry different acids and we can balance out the essential ones with a lower total amount. Thus many of the dog foods that use both sources may only need to have a 25% protein level to supply as much of the aminao acids as a feed with just animal or plant sources of 30% protein. Untill they start labeling each of the essential Amino Acids we are pretty much in the dark as to how much is usable and what that usable level even is.

Ezzy

[Hondo]

The problem is that the dog doesn't use protein but uses the amino acids that make up what we call protein. They don't care where those individual amino acids come from. The reason we use animal and plant sources is they tyend to carry different acids and we can balance out the essential ones with a lower total amount. Thus many of the dog foods that use both sources may only need to have a 25% protein level to supply as much of the aminao acids as a feed with just animal or plant sources of 30% protein. Untill they start labeling each of the essential Amino Acids we are pretty much in the dark as to how much is usable and what that usable level even is.

Ezzy

Thanks for the insightful explanation.

Hondo

[kumate]

The key point is that Meat proteins are generaly more complete and expensive proteins as is. Vegetable proteins are usually cheaper products and while they do contain protein they arent generaly as complete. Dog food labels dont usually give you amino acid profiles so when you are looking at that label of one meat product followed by wheat, corn, etc, you can make a educated guess where most of your protein is coming from. Its most likely not from meat protein. You can have 2 dog foods that are 30/20 and one be 1/3 the price of the other and be filled with mostly vegetable or plant based proteins . The idea that the company balances the inferior mostly vegetable based protein dog food with some meat to make it complete is IMHO hogwash and marketing to get you to buy a inferior dogfood.

Jerry

[ezzy333]

The key point is that Meat proteins are generaly more complete and expensive proteins as is. Vegetable proteins are usually cheaper products and while they do contain protein they arent generaly as complete. Dog food labels dont usually give you amino acid profiles so when you are looking at that label of one meat product followed by wheat, corn, etc, you can make a educated guess where most of your protein is coming from. Its most likely not from meat protein. You can have 2 dog foods that are 30/20 and one be 1/3 the price of the other and be filled with mostly vegetable or plant based proteins . The idea that the company balances the inferior mostly vegetable based protein dog food with some meat to make it complete is IMHO hogwash and marketing to get you to buy a inferior dogfood.

Jerry

The key word there is IMHO. And if you have a meat source of protein first and followed by grain products that tell you they are using animal protein as the base of the feed. You don't get much protein from corn, wheat, etc. as they run somewhere betweem 6% to maybe 10% protein. Hard to increase the percentage of protein when the ingredients you are selecting have a lower percent than the food.

And the meat proteins are not much different in price than the vegetable ones Most are higher per ton because they have a higher percentage of protein. So in the end they all are used because they are useful in balancing a ration that fills the needs of your dog and you can still afford.

Ezzy

[kumate]

Here are 2 labels

Ground Yellow Corn, Meat and Bone Meal, Soybean Meal, Chicken By-Product Meal, Wheat Middlings, Animal Fat (Preserved With Bha and Citric Acid), Natural Flavor, Brewers Rice, Salt, Calcium Carbonate, Potassium Chloride, Choline Chloride, Color Added (Titanium Dioxide, Yellow #5, Yellow #6, Red #40, Blue #2), Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Niacin, Copper Sulfate, Vitamin A Supplement, Biotin, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K Activity), Riboflavin Supplement, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid, Vitamin D-3 Supplement, Cobalt Carbonate.

INGREDIENTS
Boneless lamb, lamb meal, salmon meal, herring meal, russet potato, peas, chicken fat (naturally preserved with vitamin E), sweet potato, boneless walleye, sun-cured alfalfa, natural lamb flavor, boneless duck, whole eggs, pumpkin, spinach, turnip greens, tomatoes, carrots, apples, organic kelp, cranberries, blueberries, juniper berries, black currants, chicory root, licorice root, angelica root, fenugreek, marigold flowers,sweet fennel, peppermint leaf, chamomile flowers, lavender flowers, summer savory, rosemary, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, niacin, zinc proteinate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, vitamin B5, iron proteinate, folic acid, biotin, vitamin B12, selenium, dried Lactobacillus acidophilus fermentation product, dried Enterococcus faecium fermentation product.

By your analogy that there is not much if any difference in cost of products these 2 should be the same price. This of course is not true. While dogs would survive off of the 1st one they most likely wouldnt thrive.

Jerry

[kumate]

On a different note everyone have a blessed turkeyday

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hd4h5xKLGuE

[ezzy333]

By your analogy that there is not much if any difference in cost of products these 2 should be the same price. This of course is not true. While dogs would survive off of the 1st one they most likely wouldnt thrive.

My anology was that animal and vegetable protein costs about the same per unit of protein. I didn't say that a company can go buy a lot of exotic products that increases the cost but not the quality of the feed and compare them. If you think a dog will thrive on walleye but not carp then we don't have time or room on here to start at nutrition 101.

Have a wonderful Thanksgiving.

Ezzy

[kumate]

I imagine that carp would be a decent fish and a dog could thrive on it. Who said otherwise? You are making up things and wording your rebuttal around things that were never said. I do realize that anything besides plant protein and corn protein would be considered exotic to you. Maybe nutrition 101 would be in order, after all this is the health and nutrition forum.

You have a blessed thanksgiving yourself

Jerry

[Chaingang]

A simple way i have always used to determine what calorie content or Protein/fat percentage i should be feeding is by how much I have to feed to maintain an acceptable body shape and weight. If I find that I have to feed more than four - 8oz cups daily of a given feed to maintain (In my opinion) an acceptable body weight/shape, I usually opt for something with a bit more octane. Sometimes this may also mean changing the brand all together. However, sometimes this can backfire as the more you feed the more you are cleaning up in the yard. I think the key is to find a feed that is highly digestible and more times than not you can cut down on quantity fed and still maintain. As Ezzy stated the dog will show you what it needs.

[Hondo]

A simple way i have always used to determine what calorie content or Protein/fat percentage i should be feeding is by how much I have to feed to maintain an acceptable body shape and weight. If I find that I have to feed more than four - 8oz cups daily of a given feed to maintain (In my opinion) an acceptable body weight/shape, I usually opt for something with a bit more octane. Sometimes this may also mean changing the brand all together. However, sometimes this can backfire as the more you feed the more you are cleaning up in the yard. I think the key is to find a feed that is highly digestible and more times than not you can cut down on quantity fed and still maintain. As Ezzy stated the dog will show you what it needs.

Thanks for your reply. This was the kind of practical advise I was looking for. I'm curious as to what feed you are feeding your dogs?

-Hondo

[Chaingang]

I have a GSP that is sort of what I would call a "hard keeper" in that his metabolism seems to be quite high. I feed Native brand dog food. They have 4 levels or formulas for different activity levels. Level 1, level 2, level 3 and level 4. I feed level 3 during the off season and feed 50/50 level 3 and 4 during hunting season.

Native : http://www.nativedogfood.com/