Combining foods

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nanney1
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Combining foods

Post by nanney1 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:09 am

Does anyone combine foods? Is there any good reason to do this? Or reasons not to?

My son and I have been taking care of my neighbor's three Australian Shepherds while she has been away on vacation. The food she left to feed was in a plastic storage container. But the kibbles didn't look the same in terms of shape or color. So, I asked her what it was. She said it was a combination of Iams, Eukanuba, and Blue Buffalo. The reason was that they get bored with the same food, and rather than switching, she just combined them and they would eat it.

What she told my son to feed them is too much. They start by getting a large Milk Bone dipped in peanut butter. Then they get a large stadium cup of the food mixture. Her large male who is now neutered should weigh 60 lbs in good condition. He's probably 75 lbs with a thick layer of fat over his ribs and very wide. Her spayed female should probably be 45 lbs and like the male is probably 15 lbs overweight.

Her smaller, intact male, despite eating just as much food as the others, maintains around 50lbs and his ribs are easily felt.

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jlp8cornell
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Re: Combining foods

Post by jlp8cornell » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:12 am

There is no reason to combine food but no harm either.

The harm with your friend's dogs is the overfeeding. 8/10 dogs are overfed. Pick your battles on who you actually say anything too. There are dogs in my obedience club (and dogs I see at obedience trials) who are jumping on a regular basis and carry way too much weight. I feel so sorry for these dogs and the owners are completely oblivious to the fact that their dogs are fat. I have one friend with Rotti's. One of her females carries about 8# too much, maybe more. She thinks she is in excellent shape. Yikes. And this dog does agility and high level obedience. Poor thing.

I am told all the time that my dogs are too skinny. It's pretty amusing. So, if your friend is a good friend, I would gently mention the weight issue and see where it goes.

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ezzy333
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Re: Combining foods

Post by ezzy333 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:19 am

jlp8cornell wrote:There is no reason to combine food but no harm either.

The harm with your friend's dogs is the overfeeding. 8/10 dogs are overfed. Pick your battles on who you actually say anything too. There are dogs in my obedience club (and dogs I see at obedience trials) who are jumping on a regular basis and carry way too much weight. I feel so sorry for these dogs and the owners are completely oblivious to the fact that their dogs are fat. I have one friend with Rotti's. One of her females carries about 8# too much, maybe more. She thinks she is in excellent shape. Yikes. And this dog does agility and high level obedience. Poor thing.

I am told all the time that my dogs are too skinny. It's pretty amusing. So, if your friend is a good friend, I would gently mention the weight issue and see where it goes.

Right on! This is exactly right.

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nanney1
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Re: Combining foods

Post by nanney1 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:28 am

She knows that the two altered dogs are overweight. It is something that they have mentioned in passing conversation. Once the dogs were altered, the weight kicks in. They basically feed them all the same amount, because the dogs eat each others food. If one leaves food, the others move in and get it. So, to ensure that everyone eats enough, they just give a big pile of food in each bowl for the three dogs. I think the real problem is that if they cut the food back, the two more aggressive dogs will wolf their food down and take food away from the more submissive one.

At one time they had five dogs and just left food out all the time. At that time, four of the five were intact and all kept a good weight. Except the spayed female who plumped up shortly after being spayed.

Yes, the milkbone is overkill. She treats them like babies so she treats them with the milkbone and peanut butter. Heck, I'd prbably try that too. I think the main reason she wanted my son to give the milkbone with peanut butter is because her dogs are kind of hyper/aggressive and she thought it would help him in getting the dogs calm when he came to feed them. It works well. He breaks out the milk bones and peanut butter and says sit. And all three sit and wait for the treat. While they're eating the milk bone, he can scoop out the dog food for each dog without them getting hyper around the food bowls.

She does do obedience and has dabbled with agility with these dogs, and I see an ACL tear in the future if she doesn't get some weight off of them.

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jlp8cornell
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Re: Combining foods

Post by jlp8cornell » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:38 am

Oh gosh...one of those dog people.

OK, if she does obedience, why can she not feed the dogs together? I can leave a raw steak on the floor and my dogs will not touch it. Mine eat together and know they better not touch the others bowl or else. In fact, one can leave a full bowl and walk away and the other ignores it. Simple-- they are trained.

Group feeding the dogs out of one bowl is creating the food anxiety/aggression they have. They COMPETE at each meal so why wouldn't they go crazy?

Can you suggest feeding them individually in their crates? Also, cutting down the portion size. Boy they would be happier.

The Aussie people I know, and I know a bunch, are all a bit touched in the head. Seriously- have never seen so many people who humanize their dogs. Ridiculous. Every single one is aggressive..excuse me...their term is 'reactive'. Reactive? Sorry...it is aggression and mostly caused by the owners.

Sorry to rant...hope you can help your friend. Remind her, these are dogs!

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Re: Combining foods

Post by nanney1 » Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:56 am

Just to clarify, each dog has it's own bowl. But one will push another out of the way to get to the others bowl, and then the one who has been pushed out will go to the next unattended bowl. So, you're never sure how much each dog is really eating.

jlp8cornell, you're dead on about the aggression part. These dogs are borderline crazy. They are constantly getting into fights with each other. I have been nipped/bitten by one of the dogs who is no longer there. The couple split last year and he took two of the five with him, including the one who has bitten a few people. Animal control has been out several times over the years.

For years, they were the normal type of pet dog folks. An old Golden Retriever, and a Lab mix in the back yard. After those two passed, they picked up a stray Shepherd mix. Then their baby boy (real life son) went off to college and they got two Aussie pups. Along they way they got another, bred a litter, etc.... eventually having 5 total in addition to the Shepherd mix. The Aussies became indoor dogs, taking over the house. It was like a switch flipped and the dogs became the new babies of the house.

Now that the husband has split, the dogs are now outside during the day, and she brings them in at night. She does have crates in the house, so feeding them individually could be done.

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jlp8cornell
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Re: Combining foods

Post by jlp8cornell » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:10 am

Well good luck to you trying to help her!

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Re: Combining foods

Post by Qwernt » Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:13 pm

jlp8cornell wrote: I can leave a raw steak on the floor and my dogs will not touch it.
How do you go about training this, and how early do you start? at 10 weeks my pup can sit just fine... if I have food in my hand she can wait 5-10 seconds, but if something interesting (other food, toy, etc) gets near, then she breaks in under 2 seconds.

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jlp8cornell
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Re: Combining foods

Post by jlp8cornell » Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:30 pm

I teach a 'leave it' command. As soon as I got both my dogs as pups I made then wait for their bfast and dinner. Of course, you start very slowly, starting with a few seconds and work your way up. Eventually they get it and understand the command 'leave it'. I visit nursing homes with my older dog and it comes in handy as there could be pills, etc on the floor.

Do not expect too much from a 10 wk old pup. Start your training now but...work slowly to increase times, distractions, etc. She/he will get it but you need to be consistent in giving your commands and in your expectations. Make sure you have a release word, such as OK or Get It.

Meal time is a great 'built in' training time.

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Re: Combining foods

Post by slistoe » Wed Jun 16, 2010 10:50 pm

Qwernt wrote:
jlp8cornell wrote: I can leave a raw steak on the floor and my dogs will not touch it.
How do you go about training this, and how early do you start? at 10 weeks my pup can sit just fine... if I have food in my hand she can wait 5-10 seconds, but if something interesting (other food, toy, etc) gets near, then she breaks in under 2 seconds.
This was commonplace training with the pros who would come to the prairies in the 40's. Predator control was commonplace with strychnine and fresh meat. Before a dog was turned loose they would learn not to eat anything except what came directly from the hand of the trainer. If it was lying around they would not touch it. If the friendly neighborhood boy (my father) tried to give it to them they would not take it. To accept less from the dogs was to sign their death certificate.

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Re: Combining foods

Post by fuzznut » Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:35 am

you would be amazed what you can teach your dog to do, and not to do! Ever watch Ceasar Milan feed 10 Rotties, on a bench, all right next to each other, one bowl at a time? Each waits patiently till they get their bowl, no growling, no fighting.

Trouble is, most of us are just too impatient and or lazy to even attempt this. It's easier for us to blame the dogs bad behaviour on the dog.

Be careful trying to discuss the condition of your families dogs with them, they WILL take it personally! As to the mixing of food, I do it all the time. Never been a problem.
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