Is 5 1/2 months old to early to nueter a dog?

[hear duck]

I was hoping to nueter my pup before sending him to training. Well he's ready to go and I have to make a decison because he is only 5 1/2 months old. The breeder and the vet say sure have it done but everything i read on the boards say hold off. Should I have it done now or wait until he complets training at around 7-8 months?

[BigShooter]

For an active gun dog I would wait until the dog is through with development at about 1 1/2 years old.

What are your reasons for wanting to neuter the pup?

[ezzy333]

WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Save your dog a lot of potential problems and you a lot of potential expense by waiting till the pup is ner maturity which is somewhere near 2 years old. I guess my question is what do you expect to accomplish or prevent by doin git younger?

I will admit I never nueter a dog unless I have a reason such as a health or maintainence problem that needs attention.

Ezzy

[hear duck]

My vet recommended neutering starting at 5 months and no later then 8 months because he feels it helps hinder dominance problems. He feels neutering is the "off switch" that never allows those hormones to connect with the brain. My puppy is already starting the “hump” thing but otherwise he’s a pretty mellow guy.

[Gurgle]

Neuter/Spay - Health, Behavioural, Societal and Other Pros and Cons
This is a reading list of articles and papers by Veterinarians, breed clubs, trainers and others on the pros and cons of neutering or spaying your dog that I have found helpful and very educational. Most are based on extensive Veterinary research and also provide references you can check further. If you are wrestling with the question of when or whether to neuter/spay these may help. They do not all agree and one is even a rebuttal of another. One is a link to a radio show interview. One is a link to a medical testosterone suppressant not yet available in N. America but is in the U.K. and Australia. Some are not easy reading.

I think I personally found the first two in the list to be of most help and I appreciated the non-biased way the information was presented. The list is in no particular order, articles were simply added as I discovered them. If the links are not clickable I have tried to include the name of the paper and author in case you have to search for them. I hope this helps and good luck with your decision. A tip, I went to my Vet to discuss the first two articles with her.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTerm ... InDogs.pdf
Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated with Spay / Neuter in Dogs
Laura J. Sanborn, M.S.
May 14, 2007

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/pdf/10 ... 31.11.1665
Determining the optimal age for gonadectomy of dogs and cats,
Margaret V. Root Kustritz, dvm, phd, dact

http://www.savethedals.org/earlyneuter.htm
Veterinary "Review" Article on Neutering, with Implications for Dalmatian Stone-Formers Abstracted by Carroll H. Weiss
Study Group on Urinary Stones
Research Committee
Dalmatian Club of America

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenlclu ... neutr.html
NEUTERING MALE AND FEMALE DOGS
Mary C. Wakeman, D.V.M.
©2003 for BREEDERVET

http://www.littleriverlabs.com/neuter.htm
The Question Of Neutering and at what age
(Put together by Gregg Tonkin, Little River Labradors from postings by Pam Davol PHD and Chris Zink DVM, PhD, DACVP)

http://leerburg.com/pdf/neutering.pdf
Should You Neuter Your Dog?
Ed Frawley, Leerburg Kennels * words are l e e r b u r g.com and L e e r b u r g Kennels

http://www.traciehotchner.com/dt/files/ ... alobos.pdf
The Bond and Beyond for VPN December 2008
by Alice Villalobos
Will We Change on Early Spay-Neuter?

http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenlclu ... ndogs.html
ISSUES REGARDING CASTRATION IN DOGS
Mary C. Wakeman, D.V.M.
©2003 for BREEDERVET

http://www.petresource.com/Articles%20o ... tering.htm
New Views On Neutering
By Ruth Marrion, DVM

http://www.acc-d.org/2006%20Symposium%2 ... on%20I.pdf
Non-reproductive Effects of Spaying and Neutering
Proceedings of the Third International Symposium on Non-Surgical
Contraceptive Methods for Pet Population Control • http://www.acc-d.org
SESSION OVERVIEW - Dr. John Verstegen

http://www.peptech.com/HTML/Animal_Heal ... neral.html
A non-surgical method to suppress testosterone

http://prdupl02.ynet.co.il/ForumFiles_2/23999370.pdf
Pros and Cons of Neutering
E. Hardie
Department of Clinical Sciences, North Carolina State University, Raleigh, NC, USA.



http://www.doglistener.co.uk/neutering/rspca.shtml
RSPCA Admit to Spaying and Castrating Puppies AT SIX WEEKS OLD
Stan Rawlinson MTCBPT.MPAACT
Doglistener Behaviourist and Obedience Trainer

http://users.lavalink.com.au/theos/Spay-neuter.htm#vacc
Should I spay or should I no..? -- pros and cons of Spay-neuter
Hungarian Vizsla Health Resource

http://www.doglistener.co.uk/neutering/ ... ring.shtml
Spaying and Castration (Neutering) Dogs and Cats A Stark Warning
Stan Rawlinson, a full time Dog Behaviourist and Obedience Trainer.

http://www.wholedognews.com/
Spay, Neuter, and Cancer: Revisiting and Old Trinity
Myrna Milani, BS, DVM

http://www.caninesports.com/SpayNeuter.html
Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete One Veterinarian's Opinion
© 2005 Chris Zink DVM, PhD, DACVP

http://www.columbusdogconnection.com/Do ... tal%20.pdf
Rebuttal to “Early Spay-Neuter Considerations for the Canine Athlete”
Lisa M Howe, DVM, PhD, Dipl. ACVS Associate Professor, Small Animal Surgery Co-Chief
Surgical Sciences Sect Dept of Vet Small Animal Clinical Sci
College of Vet Med and Biom Sciences Texas A&M Univ College Station TX 77843

http://www.pluggd.tv/audio/channels/dog ... odes/4njnh
Dog Talk Show #96 Tracie Hotchner (10-18-2008)
Early spay/neuter may be harming our dogs! Hear Dr. Christine Zink, DVM, PhD, DAVCP on the physical benefits of delaying neutering and trainer Parvene Farhoody on how it can reduce aggression.

http://www.antrozoologisenteret.no/arti ... _breed.pdf
Effects of breed, sex, and neuter status on trainability in dogs
James A. Serpell* and Yuying Hsu†

http://users.skynet.be/fa242124/a-engli ... -dogs.html
Gonadectomy and behavior
Dr Joël Dehasse

http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage ... Review.pdf
Temperament and personality in dogs (Canis familiaris): A review and evaluation of past research
Amanda C. Jones *, Samuel D. Gosling

http://www.skeptvet.com/index.php?p=1_2 ... -Neutering
Evaluating the Benefits and Risks of Neutering
The SkeptVet – the owner of this blog is not identified but the articles referenced are searchable.

http://www.petfinder.com/for-shelters/p ... euter.html
Pediatric Spay/Neuter
Dr. Lila Miller, ASPCA

http://k9harmony.co.uk/spaying-and-castration/
Spaying and Castration – What Your Vet and the Rescue Centres May Not Tell You
Pauline Waller, member #178 Professional Association of Applied Canine Trainers, - articles referenced and searchable

http://www.champdogsforum.co.uk/cgi-bin ... pid1123732
To Castrate or Not? – Interesting discussion regarding a young male targeted by an aggressive older male.

http://www.cdoca.org/downloads/files/Ea ... havior.pdf
Non-reproductive Effects of Spaying and Neutering on Behavior in Dogs
Deborah L. Duffy, Ph.D., and James A. Serpell, Ph.D., Center for the Interaction of
Animals and Society, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of Pennsylvania

http://www.2ndchance.info/spayneuter.htm
At What Age Should I Spay or Neuter My Dog or Cat?
What Are The Advantages And Disadvantages Of Neutering My Pet?
Revisiting The Idea Of Early-Age Neutering
Ron Hines DVM PhD 10/05/09

http://saveourdogs.net/category/health/
Articles and links to Veterinary organizations opposing mandatory spay/neuter

http://askdryin.com/blog/tag/dog-behavi ... ay-neuter/
Can Spaying Make Dog Behaviour Worse?
Sophia Yin, DVM, MS March 5, 2009

http://www.associationofanimalbehaviorp ... ering.html
The Effects of Spaying and Neutering on Canine Behaviour
James O’Heare, Based on section from Aggressive Behavior in Dogs, 2006,


http://www.petfriendlyworld.com/chatfor ... hp?t=23096
The Behavioural Effects of Canine Castration
Hazel Palmer, 1993 See post #8 in the chat forum at Pet Friendly World.

http://www.cdoca.org/downloads/files/Ea ... havior.pdf
Does Spaying and Neutering Reduce Aggression?
Dr. Polley DVM, 2001 American Dog Breeders Association

[birddogsunlimited]

i had mavrick done at 2 years old and have never had any problems with dominance my lab was done around a year and he thinks he rules the roost . so i think it just depends on the breed and personality of the dog to begin with but thats just my opinion

[birddogger]

My vet recommended neutering starting at 5 months and no later then 8 months because he feels it helps hinder dominance problems. He feels neutering is the "off switch" that never allows those hormones to connect with the brain. My puppy is already starting the “hump” thing but otherwise he’s a pretty mellow guy.

This is just not a logical reason to neuter IMO. As others have said, if you decide to neuter, wait until the dog has finished developing. Some vets have been influenced and/or brain washed by animal rights groups. JMO.

Charlie

[Elizabeth]

I don't know about how it affects a hunting dogs performance, but I can say this for sure. If you are interested in having your pet in the house it is Very helpful to have them neutered. You don't have to deal with the marking problem as much. Also, we had a Brittany Spaniel that we had not neuterd and we left him loose outside. Unfortunately, a female dog in heat was roaming the area and we had no idea. I found our dog lying in our yard and he had been attacked by other dogs .... he died 2 hours later with a punctured lung. A horror that I never want to go through again. We owned 3 acres and he had always stayed close to home until that morning. SAD,SAD,SAD. Listen to your Veterinarian...they are the one's that have the medical knowledge.

[ezzy333]

I don't know about how it affects a hunting dogs performance, but I can say this for sure. If you are interested in having your pet in the house it is Very helpful to have them neutered. You don't have to deal with the marking problem as much. Also, we had a Brittany Spaniel that we had not neuterd and we left him loose outside. Unfortunately, a female dog in heat was roaming the area and we had no idea. I found our dog lying in our yard and he had been attacked by other dogs .... he died 2 hours later with a punctured lung. A horror that I never want to go through again. We owned 3 acres and he had always stayed close to home until that morning. SAD,SAD,SAD. Listen to your Veterinarian...they are the one's that have the medical knowledge.

Neutering does not cure those problems. Those are ingrained instincts that will normally be there anyway. As far as marking in the house there is little excuse for the dog to do that unless a strange dog comes in and he is trying to show his dominance. Other wise he is just blowing off his house training. the vets that are experienced in working and sporting dogs are pretty much in agreement that you should wait.

Ezzy

[snips]

We get males in here that are neutered young and they never seem to develope. They look like females in stature. Plus there are studies done saying it can lead to cruciate problems..I would certainly wait! Whats the rush?

[big steve46]

This is just not a logical reason to neuter IMO. As others have said, if you decide to neuter, wait until the dog has finished developing. Some vets have been influenced and/or brain washed by animal rights groups. JMO.

Charlie

You are correct. It would be interesting to know if some of these groups contribute funds to Vet schools to influence their curriculum.

[Greg Jennings]

The reason for neutering is simple: eliminating unwanted litters. I can understand that goal. I achieve the same by keeping my dogs up.

[jcbjr]

I am a veterinarian of 31 years, and have neutered my share of dogs and cats, not to mention a few horses, pigs, and calves.
I have changed my tune over the last 15 or so years and now question my clients' desire and reason for neutering, and push them to at least wait until the dog has matured fully, or at least as long as they can if serious behavioral problems are an issue. I HATE baby animal spay/neutering!!! I have noticed that these gonadectomized pups generally turn out to be fat, lethargic, sexually indistinct little blobs. I have no research to back this up, but I have also noticed a marked increase in the incidence of Cushings disease (hyperadrenalcorticism) over about the same time frame that puppy spay/neuters have become the norm, especially with shelter/rescue dogs, where the owner has no choice as the pup has already lost his/her 'nads.
As bird dog owners, we have a choice, as we generally buy pure breed dogs for a pretty good price and are under no obligation to neuter. I would encourage all of you to think long and hard before doing a procedure that can't be undone, and has been shown to have more detrimental side effects than benefits(see Gurgle's post above for documentation). Of course, we have to be good citizens and keep our dogs up to avoid unwanted litters, and we also owe that protection to our canine buddies for their own safety.
Good hunting............................JB, DVM

[hear duck]

Thanks for all the great replies. After reading all the commits we've decided to wait until later. He'll be leaving for training this Saturday with all his goodies. Thanks again!!

[Deets]

I have a 8 month old male pointer and after reading this I think I am going to wait. I don't know know much about the science behind it, but I do know that there is a reason steers look alot like cows, and bulls look like bulls.

[mcbosco]

I have a 8 month old male pointer and after reading this I think I am going to wait. I don't know know much about the science behind it, but I do know that there is a reason steers look alot like cows, and bulls look like bulls.

Hormones

[big steve46]

You should wait til the dog reaches the age of 20 before considering neutering.

[jlp8cornell]

I HATE baby animal spay/neutering!!! I have noticed that these gonadectomized pups generally turn out to be fat, lethargic, sexually indistinct little blobs. I have no research to back this up, but I have also noticed a marked increase in the incidence of Cushings disease (hyperadrenalcorticism) over about the same time frame that puppy spay/neuters have become the norm, especially with shelter/rescue dogs, where the owner has no choice as the pup has already lost his/her 'nads.

Fat/ lethargic? Sorry but that is the owners fault. Come on. My 12 yr old Hound X was spayed at 4 months. She is fit and has no endocrine disorders, etc. Makes me laugh when people correlate spay/neuter with CCL tears, etc. Yes, maybe they do have more issues but only b/c the owners do not cut the food amounts and keep them fit. Sure it is easier to keep an intact animal fit. That is the problem with these studies. They correlate certain problems with spay and neuter instead of looking at the real reasons they occur. Neuter= CCL tear. Funny. Bad study.

For the general population, spay/neuter is the way to go b/c you have to assume most people are irresponsible. I look at my neighbors and wonder if all these animals were intact, then what? Yikes.

Bottom line....If you want to spay or neuter your pup, go ahead. Just remember to keep them well exercised and properly fed. My Max is intact and that is the right decision for me at this point. Only you can make that decision....

[ezzy333]

I will not argue the point with you but there is a great deal of evidence that early neutering of either sex decreases the risk of certain diseases but increases others and one of the things it increases is ACL or other tendon tears. Weight could be a factor but in most cases it is the length of the leg and the angle that produces the problem. If it was weight it would be prevalent in most breeds instead of just the active dogs involved in running and jumping.

There is nothing funny that should result in you laughing about the problem but like everything else some dogs are going to be fine but it is catching up with a great many and many of those dogs are in shape and not over weight.

Do as you want but Please don't try to down play the dangers to a novice owner who is asking for advice. That just isn't kosher.

Ezzy

[mcbosco]

For males, there is no question that keeping them intact is the best approach. I think any dog owner that has had both will say same the thing.

I will trade a half dozen other killing cancers, bone & joint disorders, accentuated growth and poor coat any day for the very small risk of testicular cancer. It was once thought that intact dogs were more likely to have prostate problems but that has proven to be false as well.

[jlp8cornell]

Ezzy: Ask any ortho vet who does a bunch of CCL repairs and they will tell you that the huge majority are in overweight dogs. Sure you will get them in active dogs as well- same as human athletes tearing their ACLs. As for my comment about the studies done- show me a study that takes purpose bred research dogs (not pet dogs), kept the same way, condition, exercise level, etc. Leave half intact and neuter the other half. Then study the prevalence of bone/joint disorders, cancer rates, etc. Honestly, I have yet to see one so if you can find it, I would love to see it. Using "pets" creates a whole new set of variables.

I am not trying to "downplay any supposed dangers"- but there is always another side, especially for bitches whose chance of mammary cancer increases quite a bit with each cycle. And again, for the general population, spay/neuter is best since a lot of people do not keep their animals fenced/under control.

I am sure the OP will research the links/studies/info posted and make the best decision for himself and not just decide from solely one opinion.

[Qwernt]

Hopefully I am not pushing the thread too far on a tangent, but I have a 5 1/2 month old female (French Brittany if that matters). I am on the fence on the subject of spaying. As she is the first dog I have owned (grew up with dogs, but I wasnt in charge) and also the first dog I have had in the house with me, I have no idea what to expect when she goes in heat. Will I have stains all over the house or discharge issues to deal with? Obviously dog parks would be out of the question, but could I take her hunting (assuming by herself)? Health is obviously key (and from what I have read with females the odds seem to favor spaying), but I suspect there are other factors. Also, I have been told by old timers that I should let her have 1 litter before spaying. Supposedly it will completely change her attitude/outlook/teachability, etc. Any validity? Obviously if she can't hunt she won't be having a litter, but I am still on the fence about spaying, especially the timing - 2 years for a female too?

[mcbosco]

The decision to spay a female is more difficult than it is with males. Some new research suggests that breast cancer in unspayed females has more to do with weight than anything else. There was also a mini-study on Rottweilers that suggested unspayed females lived 30% longer If I remember correctly.

The problem with asking medical professionals is that many are beholden to the various humane societies, so they will always say spay.

As far as the mess of a dog in heat, there are ways to handle it and that incovenience would not be my primary reason for spaying a female. Perhaps some others can chime in.

Personally, I would let her have a cycle or two.

[Ruffshooter]

No way I would spay or neuter unless they are full grown and if I can (and I do) put up with the beviours I won't anyway.

I used to neuter and spay early, because; "it was the right thing to do". I noticed my fixd dogs from same litters were never built similar to the unfixed dogs of the same litter. Also, have had two males each with cushings. Also both males were bigger than they should have been, meaning size not weight.The others were not. (One the taller of hte two had two Cruciates done, (that aint cheap). The females seemed physically okay but larger than their litter mates. I do have one French brit now that I spayed because I found out early that she had HD. Wish I had waited till she was two or so. She is a big girl. Size wise. But I find it harder to keep her weight down more than the others with the same amount of exercise and less food.

Just my observations: I think one is messing with mother nature and screwing up the growing process when done to early.
Rick

[snips]

I am a veterinarian of 31 years, and have neutered my share of dogs and cats, not to mention a few horses, pigs, and calves.
I have changed my tune over the last 15 or so years and now question my clients' desire and reason for neutering, and push them to at least wait until the dog has matured fully, or at least as long as they can if serious behavioral problems are an issue. I HATE baby animal spay/neutering!!! I have noticed that these gonadectomized pups generally turn out to be fat, lethargic, sexually indistinct little blobs. I have no research to back this up, but I have also noticed a marked increase in the incidence of Cushings disease (hyperadrenalcorticism) over about the same time frame that puppy spay/neuters have become the norm, especially with shelter/rescue dogs, where the owner has no choice as the pup has already lost his/her 'nads.
As bird dog owners, we have a choice, as we generally buy pure breed dogs for a pretty good price and are under no obligation to neuter. I would encourage all of you to think long and hard before doing a procedure that can't be undone, and has been shown to have more detrimental side effects than benefits(see Gurgle's post above for documentation). Of course, we have to be good citizens and keep our dogs up to avoid unwanted litters, and we also owe that protection to our canine buddies for their own safety.
Good hunting............................JB, DVM

Good for you!