giardia and loose stools

[Hondo]

I have had Bella my female yellow lab since May 6th, so almost 3 weeks this coming Thursday. Since we've had her I have noticed that her stools are loose or she has diarrhea. I have been feeding her Costco Kirkland Chicken and Rice adult dog food.

I took her to the vet this past Tuesday for shots and to take a stool sample. They were testing for giardia since she had it at the breeder that I bought her from. I was told that she still had giardia and was given Panacur (Fenbendazole) which I gave to her for 3 days. Her last day of treatment was yesterday. As of today she still has loose stools and diarrhea.

As of this past Wednesday she had gained 3 pounds from the week before, so she hasn't lost weight.

How long should it take for the loose stools and diarrhea to stop. Also, I was wondering if her food could be contributing to it. The breeder was feeding her PMI Prime and I wasn't able to find the food, so I switched her to the Costco dog food.

I was thinking that since she had giardia at the breeder's kennel she may have never gotten rid of it even though she was given fenbendazole at breeder's kennel.

Any way my questions are:

1. How long should it take for the loose stools and diarrhea to stop? 2. Should I switch her food or wait and see if the loose stools and diarrhea clears up? 3. Should I disinfect her food and water bowls? I do give her fresh water and food daily.


Thanks,

Hondo

[dog dr]

my experience with giardia is that i generally have to give panacur for 8-10 days. recently had a client whose dog was treated with flagyl (metronidazole) by anothe vet, then 10 days of panacur by me, and still had giardia. i took more panacur plus Tylan to gt him cleared up.

[jcbjr]

I agree, some Giardia can be tough to clear up. I've had the most consistent success with metronidazole (Flagyl), at the higher dose of 50 mg/kg once daily for 5-7 days. there are some more exotic treatments out there for resistant strains. I'd also go with a bland diet for 2 weeks, and a good probiotic started a couple days prior to stopping the metro. and continuing for 3-4 weeks post treatment. The damage done to the gut by these little nasties can be bad, and healing time extended.

Good luck! Jim B. , DVM

[Hondo]

my experience with giardia is that i generally have to give panacur for 8-10 days. recently had a client whose dog was treated with flagyl (metronidazole) by anothe vet, then 10 days of panacur by me, and still had giardia. i took more panacur plus Tylan to gt him cleared up.

Bella is 3 1/2 months and 17lbs, and was given a 3 day treatment by the vet which consisted of 3 2-gram packets which I gave to her once daily.

I'm hopeful the panacur worked. However, based on your experience it doesn't sound like it will, since the time of treatment is not long enough. I'm not supposed to see the vet for another 3 weeks. Would you suggest that I take a stool sample to the vet sooner to check for giardia? Or should I just wait until the next vet appointment?

[kninebirddog]

along with the higher treatments amount I have seen ..or longer terms as Dog dr explained

what also can help the system is adding yogurt and baby rice to their meal....Also check and maybe back up with some albon...A vet over in Texas he does a flyagl Albon mix for dogs says that combo has worked well on many pups or dogs with issues as he gets quite a few dogs during the wetter times of the year with a little of both interfering with a dog intestinal tract

[Hondo]

I agree, some Giardia can be tough to clear up. I've had the most consistent success with metronidazole (Flagyl), at the higher dose of 50 mg/kg once daily for 5-7 days. there are some more exotic treatments out there for resistant strains. I'd also go with a bland diet for 2 weeks, and a good probiotic started a couple days prior to stopping the metro. and continuing for 3-4 weeks post treatment. The damage done to the gut by these little nasties can be bad, and healing time extended.

Good luck! Jim B. , DVM

I'm probably completely wrong, but I thought I read that some people's dogs had died from Flagyl or had suffered severe harm? Also, what would be considered a "bland diet"? Is there a certain dog food that I should get? Forgive my ignorance but would be a "good probiotic" to give her?

Thanks,

Hondo

[Hondo]

This is what I have read that worries me about Flagyl (metronidazole)

The paragraph below is from http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... 90&aid=739

"There are several treatments for giardiasis, although some of them have not been FDA-approved for that use in dogs. Fenbendazole is an antiparasitic drug that kills some intestinal worms and can help control giardia. It may be used alone or with metronidazole. Metronidazole can kill some types of bacteria that could cause diarrhea. So if the diarrhea was caused by bacteria, and not Giardia, the bacteria can be killed and the symptoms eliminated. Unfortunately, metronidazole has some drawbacks. It has been found to be only 60-70% effective in eliminating Giardia from infected dogs, and probably is not 100% effective in cats, either. It can be toxic to the liver in some animals. It is suspected of being a teratogen (an agent that causes physical defects in the developing embryo), so it should not be used in pregnant animals. Finally, it has a very bitter taste and many animals resent taking it – especially cats."

Hondo

[MikeB]

Hondo,
Just curious,

How much food are you feeding your pup per day? How many times a day are you feeding? Are you portion feeding or free feeding?

If the diarrhea continues I would contact the vet for more or different meds for the giardia.

[Hondo]

Hondo,
Just curious,

How much food are you feeding your pup per day? How many times a day are you feeding? Are you portion feeding or free feeding?

If the diarrhea continues I would contact the vet for more or different meds for the giardia.

I am free feeding. I just finished the 3 day panacur treatment on Saturday, so I'm hoping that her loose stool/diarrhea will get better before I go back to the vet.

Hondo

[Hondo]

The probiotics I'm thinking of giving Bella are either,

Prozyme http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx? ... RRWidgetID
or
Vetri-Probiotic BD™ Digestive http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=18828

Any preferences on which probiotic to give my dog?

Hondo

[dog dr]

i would take a stool sample back in and have it tested again. have him do a fecal float too (if he didnt before), just in case your dealing with coccidia. although usually there is some blood in the stool with that.

[mcbosco]

The probiotics I'm thinking of giving Bella are either,

Prozyme http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx? ... RRWidgetID
or
Vetri-Probiotic BD™ Digestive http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/p ... atid=18828

Any preferences on which probiotic to give my dog?

Hondo

Prozyme is not a probiotic it is a mix of digestive enzymes. The other one looks very expensive. Try Bertes: http://www.b-naturals.com/bertes-ultra- ... 6?cPath=31

or Bac Pac Plus.

[ezzy333]

If it was me the first thing I would do is get the pup off of the free feeding and hand feed a lesser amount till you find what is really happening. The check the stool again if it doesn't clear up. But most important is to follow your vets advice and follow up with him/her till you get it straightened out.

Ezzy

[dog dr]

If it was me the first thing I would do is get the pup off of the free feeding and hand feed a lesser amount till you find what is really happening. The check the stool again if it doesn't clear up. But most important is to follow your vets advice and follow up with him/her till you get it straightened out.

Ezzy

good advice

[Hondo]

If it was me the first thing I would do is get the pup off of the free feeding and hand feed a lesser amount till you find what is really happening. The check the stool again if it doesn't clear up. But most important is to follow your vets advice and follow up with him/her till you get it straightened out.

Ezzy

good advice

Great advice.

I will stop the free feeding and take a stool sample over to the vet tomorrow rather than wait for her next vet visit in 3 weeks. I will also ask about the fecal float.

Hondo

[MikeB]

Ezzy you beat me to the punch... lol. That is exactly why I asked the question. The pup could be over eating which could be causing the diarrhea or at least not helping the matter. Could be a combo of both to much food and giardia.

[ezzy333]

Ezzy you beat me to the punch... lol. That is exactly why I asked the question. The pup could be over eating which could be causing the diarrhea or at least not helping the matter. Could be a combo of both to much food and giardia.

My thinking exactly.

Ezzy

[Hondo]

I called the vet's office and was told to wait 10 days and then bring in a fecal sample for testing. I explained that Bella is still suffering from loose stools and diarrhea. They said that it could take a few days for her stools to become normal. They suggested feeding a bland diet of boiled chicken and rice. Their office called back a few minutes later and also said that I could feed her Hills Prescription Diet i/d canine canned food which is for digestive health support. They sell it.

I'm wondering if changing her food, if even to a sensitive stomach formula, wouldn't cause more stomach problems. I also still haven't had a chance to buy any probiotics or digestive aids mentioned in the prior posts. Maybe I should just wait and see if her stools get better. Its only been 3 days since she completed the panacur 3 day treatment. Bella seems perfectly healthy and happy, aside from the stool problems.

Hondo

[BigShooter]

You don't need to go the Hills food route. I would withhold food for 18-24 hours & then start a bland diet. The bland diet of boiled rice & either boiled chicken or boiled lean ground beef isn't very expensive nor difficult to do. When you boil the rice it absorbs the water. The added moisture assists in controlling dehydration that can occur with diarrhea. You boil the meat to remove the fat which can be upsetting to the gastrointestinal system. Start out 1 part meat to 3 or 4 parts boiled white rice. Gradually increase the meat to rice ratio. Start by feeding several smaller meals per day & as you increase portion size reduce the number of feedings.

[gsp-fan]

I would stay away from the hamburger to much fat even when boiled and use white meat not dark due to the fat in dark meat. See if you can find chicken breast on sale. I have just finished going through this with my GSP. I microwave my white rice and boil the chicken. Not sure of your dogs weight but I mix half cup rice & half a cup chicken and add some water. Hope your feels better soon.

[mcbosco]

If you have a Vitamin Shoppe near you it should have Jarrow's Petdophilus. Or just go to the supermarket and get any probiotic blend.

[BigShooter]

I would stay away from the hamburger to much fat even when boiled and use white meat not dark due to the fat in dark meat. See if you can find chicken breast on sale. I have just finished going through this with my GSP. I microwave my white rice and boil the chicken. Not sure of your dogs weight but I mix half cup rice & half a cup chicken and add some water. Hope your feels better soon.

Yes, stay away from regular ground beef (70/30). However, the extra lean gound beef (93/7) works just fine. Don't start with a 1 to 1 ratio of rice to meat as that is not generally recommended on this site or by any vets I know.

[jcbjr]

Hondo. sorry, I've been sick with a GI bug (no, not Giardia!) I've had zero toxicity problems with Flagyl, used in otherwise healthy dogs. It is a narrow spectrum antibiotic, effective against several common GI bugs that can cause diarrhea, but generally not against the "good" bacteria. I have used Fast Balance GI from Vetri Science Labs with good results. I have read about resistance, but have not encountered it where I live yet. I usually give my clients the choice of Hills I/D or cooking ground turkey and white rice mixed 1/2 and 1/2 and fed at about the same quantity as your regular food. The turkey/rice is OK for short term, say a couple weeks, but it is lacking as a long term diet. Good luck!

JB, DVM

[BigShooter]

Just to get a little off the subject to talk about bland diets. You will get advice about various different formulas for bland diets from vets, online vet resources and posters on this site. After the initial fasting period, the formulas are generally alike in that they include boiled white rice & boiled lean meat. Almost everyone knows poultry is more lean than red meat. Boiling however removes fat regardless of the meat source. Some sources suggest it is better to use a different meat protein source than you have been feeding in the dog's regular food. Many kibbles use poultry as a meat protein source. Boiled Lean ground beef is also included in a number of recommendations.

The primary differences occur in the ratio of meat to rice. Various blends of 1 part boiled lean meat to three parts boiled white rice up to and including 1:1 ratios have been recommended. Also some sources recommend reducing portion size & increasing the number of feeding per day initially. The last noted difference is how long you continue the bland diet from as little as four days up to ten days.

It seems intuitive that a more bland diet and one easier on the gastrointestinal tract would be a diet of one part boiled lean meat to three parts boiled white rice in smaller portions fed more often initially. Not feeding smaller bland portions is similar to feeding too much regular food and causing soft stools. Slowly increasing the blend and portion size as well as a transitional blending of bland & regular foods until you get back to their normal diet should be conservative treatment.

Some diarrhea may be of short duration & mild in severity whereas others may be bloody, of longer duration and from a more severe cause. Dietary restrictions obviously may be more or less conservative based upon diagnosis & prognosis.

There is no single bland diet, feeding formula and treatment plan universally recommended by all.

Feeding yogurt & or probiotics while not universally recommended, are certainly recommended by many.