Conditioning (For Humans)

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 10:23 am

Well, hunting season is right around the corner. For the first time in my life, I'm faced with actually having to get in shape for hunting season.

The plan that I worked out with a conditioning trainer at the health and wellness center where I work is based on cardio on a treadmill and weight lifting on my home equipment. The baseline is that I walk every day and I lift weights every other day.

What I wanted to post to you folks about is the effectiveness of the interval training they have me doing for cardio.

Basically the trainer has me walk on the treadmill (could be on the road, an elliptical trainer or any kind of aerobic exercise) at a baseline pace that gets my pulse elevated. Then every couple of minutes, I go to a faster pace, higher incline, etc. (more intense) that spikes up my pulse rate for a minute or two, then back down to the baseline pace.

It's pretty structured. I record the baseline pace and the high-intensity pace each time and my observations on the intensity and duration of the baseline and high-intensity parts. The next time out, I use the notes to tune the exercise.

It's pretty cool. If you need to get back in shape for hunting or just want to try it for general health, I highly recommend it.

Post by **ezzy333** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 1:52 pm

At my age if I have to get in shape I ain't going!!!!

Ezzy

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:27 pm

I hear ya Howie. I had some health problems that I caught while in the hospital for pretty minor stuff. Kicked my butt. Now, I have to work out so I can walk around a section. Sucks.

bwjohn · Post by **bwjohn** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 8:47 pm

Greg,
there are tons of things that you can do to help with the conditioning.

A few more tips:
If you are going to carry a pack or vest with weight, try doing you conditioning with that on. Then your shoulders get use to the weight and will not feel weighed down when hunting.

Also, carry a 5-8 lb dumbell when walking or doing the stair climber. I know that we all sling our guns around and carry them in what ever way is best at the moment, not always the correct way to carry a gun. But, again it gets you use to holding that weight while walking or whatever.

Last but not least vary and shorten those times on the slow part of the cardio, making the harder "sprints", if you will, longer and with more frequency. That will put you a lot farther ahead in the cardio.

I think that being in shape for the hunting season makes it more enjoyable for you and your partner if you can keep up with him/her.

brandon

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:09 pm

bwjohn wrote: Last but not least vary and shorten those times on the slow part of the cardio, making the harder "sprints", if you will, longer and with more frequency. That will put you a lot farther ahead in the cardio.

Hi Brandon,

Since I'm maxed out in the "sprint speed" because I have a trick left knee left over from the serious running days (almost 30 years and 80 lbs ago) I'm left with:
-- Up the base speed.
-- Up the base incline.
-- Shorten the base time.
-- Up the incline on the "sprint" part.

What I liked about what they have me doing is how structured it is. Rest and "sprint" intensity and duration. If I have a note that I felt like I was recovered for over 1/4 of the rest period, then, next time something changes to cure that.

Greg J "who is going to be one sore puppy tomorrow from upping the intensity on the weight training"

djswizz · Post by **djswizz** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:37 am

Vary up the conditioning. One day, do a LONG jog, about 30 minutes. Don't stop unless you have to. The next day, find a LONG hill or soccer field, etc. and sprint 90% of your max the length of the field or for 30 seconds. Rest for 2 minutes, sprint again. Do this 5 times. Next week, increase it to 6 reps. And continue this cycle over and over. Another thing is to do burpees. Do 10x10. See here for info on how to do them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MGljX4bbps

Keep your diet clean, nothing processed. 1-2 ingredients in the food or less.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:11 am

I can't actually run or rather can't do it consistently as a form of exercise. The left knee goes bad and gets to the size and color of a basketball.

I'm maxed on the upper speed in the intervals at a fast walk. On the "sprint" part of the interval, I can up the incline or duration. On the rest part, I can speed it up, shorten it or increase the incline.

I guess I could also increase intensity by wearing a weight vest, but I think it would irritate my knee.

I'm a big fan of super burpees. Love putting in mountain climbers in there as well every so often. My students used to HATE me.

TEX-X · Post by **TEX-X** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 12:29 pm

have you ever done 8 count body builders? i did about a million of those when i was going through boot camp...and they dang sure got every muscle in your body in shape... start in a standing position. 1. goto a squatting position 2. push your legs out like you are about to do a mountain climber. 3 spread your legs 4. touch your nose to the ground by doing half a push up (keep your gut off the floor!) 5. push up into the resting position 6. bring your legs together 7. back into a squatting position. 8. up into the standing position... i have a bum knee as well and this really helped me strengthen it up... also you can get on an eliptical and do a fat burn routine. plus the elliptical is very low impact on your joints. By fat burn routine do five minutes at a low resistance bump the resistance up a few settings for 2 minutes and then bump it back down and start over. good luck! if you lived close to me we do cadence runs monday wednesday and friday... those are always fun

Post by **Ayres** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:49 pm

My problem right now is trying to figure out how to do cardio with a sprained knee (I think it's a sprained MCL). My left knee is slightly swollen and has ached for a month now. I don't know how it happened, it just started hurting one day. The problem, of course, is that I refuse to quit walking, so it makes it hard to "rest" the joint. In the meantime, it's put a damper on my structured workouts.

djswizz · Post by **djswizz** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:06 pm

Ayres wrote:My problem right now is trying to figure out how to do cardio with a sprained knee (I think it's a sprained MCL). My left knee is slightly swollen and has ached for a month now. I don't know how it happened, it just started hurting one day. The problem, of course, is that I refuse to quit walking, so it makes it hard to "rest" the joint. In the meantime, it's put a damper on my structured workouts.

Does it hurt to do sprints on a stationary bike? Can you go swimming? What about the rowing machine??? These are some of exercises that do not involve the knee directly.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:16 pm

TEX-X wrote:have you ever done 8 count body builders? i did about a million of those when i was going through boot camp...and they dang sure got every muscle in your body in shape... start in a standing position. 1. goto a squatting position 2. push your legs out like you are about to do a mountain climber. 3 spread your legs 4. touch your nose to the ground by doing half a push up (keep your gut off the floor!) 5. push up into the resting position 6. bring your legs together 7. back into a squatting position. 8. up into the standing position... i have a bum knee as well and this really helped me strengthen it up... also you can get on an eliptical and do a fat burn routine. plus the elliptical is very low impact on your joints. By fat burn routine do five minutes at a low resistance bump the resistance up a few settings for 2 minutes and then bump it back down and start over. good luck! if you lived close to me we do cadence runs monday wednesday and friday... those are always fun

That 8 count dealie sounds like a super burpee variant. I don't spread my legs, at 3, but I jump up or do a double knee raise at 8. I'll also mix in mountain climbers at 3 every so often.

I miss cadence the camaraderie of cadence runs and ruck marches. It really helps keep your mind off the various pains.

Greg J.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:55 pm

My workout consists of smoking a pack of cigarettes a day, sitting in my recliner and eating a big plate of lasagna or some other equally fatty food pretty much all the time, drinking a few beers with friends when my wife lets me, watching many hours of the Outdoor Channel especially the upland hunting shows, chasing my 2 year old around, getting up to go outside and smoke since I do not smoke around my kids or in the house, running dogs a couple times a week, and the walking I do on my job as a detention deputy. Other than that- hey lets go hunting.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 8:54 am

tommyboy72 wrote:My workout consists of smoking a pack of cigarettes a day, sitting in my recliner and eating a big plate of lasagna or some other equally fatty food pretty much all the time, drinking a few beers with friends when my wife lets me, watching many hours of the Outdoor Channel especially the upland hunting shows, chasing my 2 year old around, getting up to go outside and smoke since I do not smoke around my kids or in the house, running dogs a couple times a week, and the walking I do on my job as a detention deputy. Other than that- hey lets go hunting.

I've never had to exercise before either. It was just built in. Now, it's required. I can't fly in, do a "pre-season conditioning" like I used to be able to. Before cross country every year, I took two weeks (two weeks!) to get into race shape. This is going to have to be a permanent change. Else, I'll find myself unable to do the things that I enjoy most.

It's like when my mother quit smoking. She refused, she slid back into it, etc. for years. Then, she started having heart "spells" and scans showed she's previously had a heart attack. The doctor looked at her in the eye and told her, dead serious, "You can quit smoking or die of a heart attack. It might be a year, it might be six months, it might be tomorrow. It's your choice.". She quit. She jonesed for a smoke for a year, but she got over it.

I've got a similar choice. Exercise every day or not have enough wind to hunt. I'm gonna exercise.

tommyboy72 · Post by **tommyboy72** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:11 am

I have noticed some changes as I get older but most of it is things like not being able to mow the yard in 95 degree weather without being able to take a few breaks but for the most part when it comes to hunting I still fair pretty well. God knows I have put on weight I really need to take off but other than that I am good. I can tell you I cannot run like I did when I played college football back in the early 90's but at the age of 37 I don't expect to either. With 2 young children and work and day off honey do's I am short of time. Guess if I spent less time on Gundog Forum I could find time to work out but I would much rather be on here learning.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:47 am

I was bulletproof till I turned 41, then it started noticing the downhill slide. Then, I got sick earlier this year. That capped it. No more Easy Street.

Post by **Ayres** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:06 am

I was bulletproof until college started taking more time out of my day, disallowing the nightly ventures to the athletic complex for four straight hours of full court basketball. Graduating into a desk job was the nail in the coffin. The past two years I have had to make time to exercise, which is hard because I never had to do that before. I'd be happy to lose 15 lbs and keep it off.

Buckeye_V · Post by **Buckeye_V** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:29 am

Greg:

Good to see you on the reoad to recovery. I am a fan of interval training myself!!! I use it to get in shape for grouse season. I turn the treadmill on during my favorite show, throw a pair of my boots on and a backback with some of the Doc's text books in it for extra gain and start walking. On commercial breaks I eas the incline up and the later I go the more I increase the rate of speed. I walk very briskly for 30 minutes with the pack on and the inclines. You'd be surprised what it does for you.

You can also come up and sling some hay bales for the upper-body part!

Just kidding.

My hips are my weak point, so I have to watch my exertion levels on those.

Got some new deer trails scoped out this year for you or Parker......

Justin

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:16 pm

My favorite thing so far has been to start at a given incline and 3.5 mph for 2 minutes, then increase the speed to a "sprint" speed for 2 minutes, then back to 3.5, then increase the incline way up for 2 minutes, then back down. I keep that up for at least 30 minutes.

I started out at zero incline and the sprint speed of 4.0 and the "way up" incline of 6.0 degrees. In two weeks, I've upped the base incline to 2.5 degrees, the sprint speed to 4.2 mph and the "way up" incline to 8.0 degrees.

Every other time, I get off the treadmill and lift weights. I started just bench press and lat pull down. Warm up set plus two sets of 15. In two weeks, I've added military press and seated rows. My next conversation with the trainer, I'm going to ask about adding or swapping in squats.

There are a bunch of "programs" on the treadmill. I've tried some of them. They keep things interesting.

Dobe · Post by **Dobe** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:31 pm

In addition to exercising dogs and riding horses, I use an elliptical everyday. My knees can't take a treadmill!

TEX-X · Post by **TEX-X** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 3:25 pm

the ellipticals are great....especially now that i can run my physical readiness test on them...

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:11 pm

I use a Nordic track ski machine for one hour every day and I can tell you that it gets you in fantastic shape

however stay off bicycles

I did this a few weeks ago and my season is over

Bike accident, tore the quad tendon completely off my knee, 6 months leg straight in a brace, one year total recovery time to being able to walk normally

The picture with both legs there is nothing but a thin layer of gauze under the elastic bandage the rest is swelling

I am sick about this, not in much pain but the idea of missing bird season is killing me

resized scar pic.jpg

resized knee comparison.jpg

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 8:15 pm

That sure doesn't look pretty. Just make sure you don't try to do too much too fast and set your self back when you get on your feet.

Ezzy

bobman · Post by **bobman** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:28 am

Ezzy because its a tendon to bone injury (and the poor blood flow in those areas) thats exactly the same advice the doctors have given me, unfortunately theres no rushing this recovery.

But thanks for the good advice hopefully you guys can keep me entertained for the next 3-4 months

There are people with much worse problems I'll be ok , I sure hate to lose a bird season though I live for bird hunting

TEX-X · Post by **TEX-X** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:35 pm

get a rascal scooter and hunt off of it

that looks rough... good luck on your recovery... about ten years ago i ran a dirt bike through a barbwire fence....175 stitches and a scar from one side of my knee to the other...

Post by **Sharon** » Sat Sep 12, 2009 3:31 pm

Consider getting your knees replaced Greg. 3-4 months you're as good as new.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:45 am

Sharon wrote:Consider getting your knees replaced Greg. 3-4 months you're as good as new.

Hi Sharon, the knees are Bobman, not me.

Bobman, that's a serious bummer. You've convinced me to stay off the bike!

Update: I'm progressing well in the interval training. I feel good and am sleeping like a log!
Greg J.

Post by **Sharon** » Sun Sep 13, 2009 9:25 am

LOL I know Bobman's knees. LOL but you said,"The left knee goes bad and gets to the size and color of a basketball." Good reason for a new knee.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Mon Sep 14, 2009 1:52 pm

Sharon wrote:LOL I know Bobman's knees. LOL but you said,"The left knee goes bad and gets to the size and color of a basketball." Good reason for a new knee.

It's not that bad. It's fine as long as I don't try to run on it. I can even run on it...for a while. Then, it gradually gets bad.

The underlying problem is that I cracked the knee open on the corner of a brick house when I was a kid.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:57 am

Another excellent non complicated exercise is the turkish get up, trust me non complicated is far far from easy. This is a single exercise that combined with a cardio routine could produce some excellent benefit for overall functional strength increase. You can do them with weights or not, I lift on a regular basis and still use a relativly light dumbell, to start I would do them without any weight. This exercise is excellent for core strength overall balance and body control.

http://www.ehow.com/how_2123384_turkish-get-up.html
www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqyIuFIdgRk

wannabe · Post by **wannabe** » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:19 pm

I have been swinging kettlebells and doing turkish get ups since January. It has done wonders for my core strength and endurance.
http://enterthekettlebell.com/b33.html

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Sun Sep 27, 2009 8:02 am

Progress is now being made: BP down to 130/69 and pulse rate down from 72 bpm to 58 bpm; weight from 234 to 221 and I've muscled up.

I'm still lifting weights and doing interval training on the treadmill. I've moved from everything 3x/week to a split where I work 6x/week. It's probably less efficient, but I couldn't cram everything into the time I have when I went from 2 sets to 5 sets of each exercise; hence the split. I've added an additional session on the treadmill Sat and Sun mornings; it's high-incline/lower-speed and not interval. I've also just changed up every other evening interval to jumping off the treadmill and doing core training: crunches and knee raises.

The huge deal, however, has been going from 3 meals/day to 6 smaller meals/day with the first one being a pretty substantial breakfast. I'm now not starving to death when it gets to meal time. I'm not as hungry when I start the meal and I don't feel a need to pig out. I can't believe I'm 47 years old and have been so stupid all these years as to ignore what my mom's been telling me all these years...

Greg J.

ACooper · Post by **ACooper** » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:07 am

Wow great improvements, the pulse rate is impressive. Good job.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:36 am

ACooper wrote:Wow great improvements, the pulse rate is impressive. Good job.

Yep. Was pretty stoked about that.

After two-a-days Sat, Sun and Mon, I'm bushed and am taking a day of rest.

I'm so digging eating 6 smaller meals/day. I'm never hungry.

Did make a bad mistake this weekend. Bought some vitamins at Sam's. Supposedly "for those needing extra support while working out". Had two different kinds of stimulants in them. I took two yesterday morning. I was pinging off the walls and my pulse rate was up 4 bpm. I was going to order Animal Pak vits anyway, so I'll just have to do it sooner.

Greg J.

djswizz · Post by **djswizz** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:36 am

Do not order animal pak. It's not worth the money. You'll literally piss out your vitamins, thus your money. the body can only absorb so much at one time. One good multi is all you need. The rest comes from the whole, natural foods you eat throughout the day. You're doing 6 meals so you have a constant supply coming it...

wannabe · Post by **wannabe** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:58 am

djswizz wrote:Do not order animal pak. It's not worth the money. You'll literally piss out your vitamins,

fluorescent orange piss

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:04 am

I've always thought of it as radioactive. But, every single guy I know that lifts heavy uses them.

With my life, it's danged hard to eat everything that I need and remember to take a multi + 1 fish oil + extra vitamin D every day. I, inevitably, forget something 2 or 3 times a week.

Greg J.

djswizz · Post by **djswizz** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:52 am

I lift hard and heavy (bodybuild) and don't use them - I know lots that do not (that are natural bbers). I used to, but it was being wasted in my radioactive urine and I saw no positive effects. Plus, are YOU going to lift heavy? If not, then no need IMO. I'd rec. against them. That many vits/minerals at one time can't be good on the liver either.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:13 am

Between lifting and cardio, I'm at about an hour and a half/day, six days/week. Lifting: 2-4 exercises per group, 4-5 sets each, one warm up set, the rest to exhaustion. Cardio: 30 minutes of intervals, alternating with 30 minutes high incline jogging, jumping off and doing abs every 3 minutes. Sat and Sun, I do cardio twice.

But, very good point about the liver thing. I've got to take it easy on mine as it's been beat up over the years and I'm throwing a marginal level on 2 of 3 enzymes.

It's just awfully hard to eat right at the kids soccer or lacrosse games...

Post by **Sharon** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:18 am

Good for you Greg for taking action at 47. Most folks wait until a health crisis scares them.

My husband is 60 and rides his bike to work ( 45 minutes x 2 ) every day, all year. He's in great shape.
He was Canadian University Wrestling Champion in his day. He says you don't work the same muscle group every day. It will lead to injury. You should rest that muscle group every second day.

djswizz · Post by **djswizz** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:27 am

Exactly. Muscle is not made in the gym, it's made when resting.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:44 am

I'm on a split: Chest and Triceps, Back and Biceps, Legs, Shoulders and repeat. I do 30 minutes of cardio every day and twice on Sat and Sun. I then take Mondays off. It's not as efficient in terms of building muscle, but it gets me in and out in the time that I have available.

I was in excellent shape before moving to OH. 12 straight years of aikido 2 hours 3/week. I could run 3 miles in less than 30 minutes any time I wanted to...without any training running.

I put on 30 lbs the first year... Ouch!

I don't know what has gotten into me. The weather changed a bit, the corn and beans started turning and I had to get into shape.

wannabe · Post by **wannabe** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 12:33 pm

That seems like a lot of work, Greg. You could probably get just as good of results in half the time with a day of deadlifts and weighted dips and another day of overhead presses and weighted pull ups. You will get your push and pull with all of the important muscle groups. I would also recommend not lifting to exhaustion; leaving a few reps in "the tank" is what makes you stronger. At 40-something, we don't have the same level of hormones that we had in our 20's, and over training is a good way to make things worse. Stick with a heavy 5x5 workout and finish with some easy cardio 3-4 days a week, so you feel stronger walking out of the gym then when you walked in. A year ago, I was doing the same type of workout that you described and I thought everything was great, but after a little bit of research, I cut back to heavy full-body pulls and pushes and I am stronger and more fit now than I was 20 years ago.

I am not into bodybuilding, I just want to hunt and ride for another 40+ years

check out a few of these articles:
http://www.mikemahler.com/articles.html#fatloss

djswizz · Post by **djswizz** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:04 pm

wannabe wrote:That seems like a lot of work, Greg. You could probably get just as good of results in half the time with a day of deadlifts and weighted dips and another day of overhead presses and weighted pull ups. You will get your push and pull with all of the important muscle groups.

Agree 100%. Compound lifting will go faster and working more muscles at once actually burns more kcals.

I would also recommend not lifting to exhaustion; leaving a few reps in "the tank" is what makes you stronger.

Completely untrue. Lifting to exhaustion at the end of every set is how you build muscle. If you want to train for endurance, that is another thing. But not lifting to exhaustion will not build muscle.

At 40-something, we don't have the same level of hormones that we had in our 20's, and over training is a good way to make things worse.

See this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUvjXQHt6QQ and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5om6gbDwA8

Stick with a heavy 5x5 workout and finish with some easy cardio 3-4 days a week, so you feel stronger walking out of the gym then when you walked in. A year ago, I was doing the same type of workout that you described and I thought everything was great, but after a little bit of research, I cut back to heavy full-body pulls and pushes and I am stronger and more fit now than I was 20 years ago.

Best program one can go on.
http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5- ... g-program/

mcbosco · Post by **mcbosco** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:09 pm

I am stocking up on red wine for the fall for after hunting...$10 bucks a bottle or cheaper...

Casper · Post by **Casper** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:41 pm

I always thought this was the best program. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 3:03 pm

Casper wrote:I always thought this was the best program. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other

Casper,

Thats been my program too I used to travel with a guy that spent an hour or two everyday running and lifting weights and he worried constantly about conditioning. He would get perturbed with me but when he developed ulcers from worring so much and then died of a heart attack several years ago while he was running I decided my way seemed to work just fine.

Ezzy

TEX-X · Post by **TEX-X** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:55 pm

I get plenty of exercise going from the recliner to the beer cooler and back....

wannabe · Post by **wannabe** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:13 am

djswizz wrote:
I would also recommend not lifting to exhaustion; leaving a few reps in "the tank" is what makes you stronger.
Completely untrue. Lifting to exhaustion at the end of every set is how you build muscle. If you want to train for endurance, that is another thing. But not lifting to exhaustion will not build muscle.

Being a man in my 40's, I assumed that Greg was more interested in functional strength and flexiblity than bodybuilding. Personally, I am more interested in a 2 1/2 X bodyweight deadlift than big arms and chesticles.

Post by **Greg Jennings** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:37 am

Casper wrote:I always thought this was the best program. Just keep putting one foot in front of the other

Man, wish I had that opportunity. I tried to transfer to Ogden, UT, but that fell through. I'm now here in NOBirdsHio till the kids get out of high school (4 years).

Duane M · Post by **Duane M** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:05 pm

Greg if you have not joined up yet sign up on Crossfit for the WOD(workout of the day) That will whip you into shape both cardio and strength as well as help your flexibility. Or get ya tail into a Judo or BJJ class, that will do wonders for ya.