Sick dog - serious questions for Vets.

bwjohn · Post by **bwjohn** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:22 pm

My 16-month old intact male vizsla is sick - really sick and we don't know what the cause is yet. Before last week he was a perfectly healthy, well muscled, normal energy dog. He got a clean bill of health on June 18th when he got his annual shots. But last week everything changed...

He vomited 10 times last Wednesday night (July 2nd). Since then he's only vomited two other times - mostly grass. Diarrhea starting Friday (July 4th). Stool is very mucous and either golden yellow or a rusty brown and sometimes has small amounts of blood. Has not eaten willingly since the first night of vomiting - looking very thin and down about 6-8 pounds. Not interested in drinking much either - he's been hydrated with IV's on and off the past week. Attitude is completely depressed, listless, lethargic, lacking all interest in life and just wants to sleep. No fever. Pale gums. Has a non-productive cough.

Blood work - not too bad, white blood cell count fine, protein is low, liver enzyme slightly elevated, amylase elevated. X-rays show slightly enlarged heart, liver, and spleen. Ultrasound confirms enlarged liver and spleen and also shows enlarged lymph nodes, thickened intestinal wall, and fluid in the abdomen. All tests for parasites have come back negative - all fecal floats negative. Started amoxocylin, panicure, and probiotic supplement, stool hardeners, and antinausea meds on Monday (july 7th). Started a second antibiotic (Baytrill?) on Wednesday (July 9th).

Seems to be getting worse based on his tiredness, weakness, and loss of appetite and unwillingness to drink water. Tomorrow the internist is going to aspirate his enlarged tissues (lymph nodes, liver, and spleen?) and do a rectal scraping. Do you think a fungal infection (something like Histplasmosis) is a likely culprit? He runs on a farm (fields, forest, and water) with bird droppings 2-3 times per week. We are desperate to figure out what is ailing him. Do you have any suggestions? Thank you for your help.

-Brandon

Post by **kninebirddog** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:36 pm

not much help but will send you some prayers and wishes that they find out with your buddy and that it is something they can treat

keep us posted

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 10:38 pm

Doesn't sound good. If it were my dog I'd be wanting a tox screen done. Phosphate and anti freeze can each cause some of these symptoms.

I sure hope you get some answers in a hurry.

Best of luck. CR

http://www0.epinions.com/content_4704870532

GL · Post by GL » Fri Jul 11, 2008 5:59 am

Prayers from us! Having been there and seen our dog going down hill fast I can certainly feel both the dogs and your pain.

I think the hardest part for us was just not knowing what was wrong and waiting for the vets to get the diagnosis right and the meds to start working.

Reaching out here is a step in the right direction and I do hope someone who might have faced similar symptoms can lend some insight like I got when our problem was raging.

Best of luck to you and your best friend.

Gary

snips · Post by **snips** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:06 am

Wow, hope you get some answers. Would a University be able to tell you more? Checked tick titers? Ticks can cause alot, and you need a different antibiotic for that.

dog dr · Post by **dog dr** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:28 am

have they done a parvo test? the other thing i thought about after reading your description was an intussusception, where the gut telescopes on itself. an exploratory surgery or at least a barium study (upper GI) would be in order, imho, or at least that is what i would do. good luck to you

romeo212000 · Post by **romeo212000** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 9:41 am

Wouldnt be parvo because the dog does not drink water willingly. Dogs infected with parvo usually drink copious amounts of water. My sister in-laws dog was having some similar symptoms and I believe they decided it was either fungal or bacterial, but I dont recall. For it to onset that fast it is likely accute rather than chronic. Especially if he was given a clean bill of helath not long ago. I would definately have a tox screen done. With it setting on that fast it sounds like he may have gotten into something. Good luck. I am currently nursing my GSP back from surgery on her achilles tendon. Not a fun time.

bwjohn · Post by **bwjohn** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:43 am

Lymph Node Cancer or Hystoplasmosis (probably did not spell either one of those correctly), but that is the feeling of the vet at the moment.

Brandon

Chief_dog · Post by **Chief_dog** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 11:52 am

No advice here, but you and your dog are in my prayers.

--Dave

dog dr · Post by **dog dr** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:32 pm

bwjohn wrote:Lymph Node Cancer or Hystoplasmosis (probably did not spell either one of those correctly), but that is the feeling of the vet at the moment.

Brandon

your dogs age can ALMOST rule out lymph node cancer, especially if none of his other nodes are blown up, but thats not to say it cant happen in a dog that young. Histo definitely has to be on the list, although i would think you would see some respiratory involvement too, BUT i have never seen a case of histo so i could be wrong. aspirating the lymph node would rule in or out either of those 2 diagnoses.

amount of water consumed has nothing to do with parvo. he is a little on the old side for it to be parvo, but i have been fooled before. i have seen it in 16 month old dogs. i have been fooled enough times that i go ahead and test anything that is vomiting and having diarrhea..

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:45 pm

John, I had a client two years ago that lost a dog at the age of 2 to parvo. I'm with the doc on this one. Call your vet and ask him to do a parvo test.

I'd still lean towards poisoning though as a strong possibility as well. CR

Bigsur009 · Post by **Bigsur009** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 12:49 pm

brandon-

i've got no new ideas for you that haven't already been mentioned, but you guys will definitely be in our prayers over here.

bwjohn · Post by **bwjohn** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:12 pm

Dog Dr,
We have an internal specialist that is doing an aspiration this afternoon. The vet said that the cancer does hit dogs this early sometimes.

Charlie,
Any toxins or poisons would have shown up on the blood work, he has had blood drawn each of the last 5 days.

Dog Dr,
also, from todays blood work, his proteins are starting to drop. And the vet said the Lymph Nodes are noticeable larger today than on Tuesday.

thanks for all of the thoughts and good wishes. I have enjoyed this forum very much so and in a situation like this it is very comforting to get best wishes and advice from people that I respect. Thank you for that.

brandon

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:43 pm

Charlie,
Any toxins or poisons would have shown up on the blood work, he has had blood drawn each of the last 5 days.

Only if they do a tox screen. Normal CBC and liver panel won't show them.

Our thoughts are sure with you on this. Obviously he's still alive and where there's life there's hope. CR

Post by **kninebirddog** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:05 pm

Brandon It sure sounds like your vet is checking for everything possible ....

Sorry to hear they aren't coming up with anything completely conclusive yet Your both in our prayers here..

dog dr · Post by **dog dr** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:08 pm

bwjohn wrote:Dog Dr,
We have an internal specialist that is doing an aspiration this afternoon. The vet said that the cancer does hit dogs this early sometimes.

Charlie,
Any toxins or poisons would have shown up on the blood work, he has had blood drawn each of the last 5 days.

Dog Dr,
also, from todays blood work, his proteins are starting to drop. And the vet said the Lymph Nodes are noticeable larger today than on Tuesday.

thanks for all of the thoughts and good wishes. I have enjoyed this forum very much so and in a situation like this it is very comforting to get best wishes and advice from people that I respect. Thank you for that.

brandon

your doc is right, cancer can hit dogs that young, its just a rare case when it does. sounds like you are on the right track, hopefully the aspirate will give you an answer. good luck, and let us know what you find out.

wems2371 · Post by **wems2371** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:34 pm

I have no helpful ideas either, but I am so praying that you can find an answer soon. Hang in there and best wishes for your pup. Denise

vern3 · Post by **vern3** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:56 pm

Prayers sent and hoping for the best

bwjohn · Post by **bwjohn** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 4:33 pm

Just spoke with the vet, she says that we will hear something from her tomorrow. Her opinion on what the aspirate shows, she is also sending a sample off to a specialist to double check those will not be back until Monday.

Just in case you might want to see who the post is about check out http://gallery.mac.com/bwjohn and click on the Lander folder. Those pics cover from when we got him from Hungary until about a month ago.

Brandon

Post by **kninebirddog** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 6:02 pm

might try contacting the breeder maybe another pup in the litter or more might have the same thing

Long shot but the breeders should be made aware of what is happening in their breeding for their records

AHGSP · Post by **AHGSP** » Fri Jul 11, 2008 8:52 pm

Really sorry to hear that Lander isn't well Brandon. Hopefully works out to be nothing serious.
Sorry that I can't offer any help or suggestions, but I'll keep him in my prayers.

Dennmor · Post by **Dennmor** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 7:48 am

Brandon,
Just wanted to put in with the others in offering hope and good wishes.
Denn

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Sat Jul 12, 2008 9:04 pm

Well Brandon any news today? Hope all is well. CR

bwjohn · Post by **bwjohn** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 1:15 pm

The vet believes that she saw the fungal infection (histoplasmosis) on his liver and spleen aspirate. She sent some samples to an expert to read the slides, we should hear back from that on Mon. or Tues., hopefully this is the correct diagnosis. We did start the treatment for histoplasmosis, it will not adversely affect him. There is a chance that the medicine after a couple of weeks can cause problems to the liver, but initially it is ok.

He seems to already feel better, he has actually eaten the past day and a half. The last time he has eaten was 7/1.

Although it looks like we may have a correct diagnosis there is still a 50/50 chance of him making it. The vet says in her experience it is really hard to tell which ones will make it and which ones will not make it. The treatment last several months, to try to ensure that it is completely gone and will not come back. Well, unless exposed again to the fungus.

I will update again on Mon. or Tues when we hear back from the specialist.

Brandon

snips · Post by **snips** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 2:01 pm

Good luck. I had a horse with it, but it can settle anywhere. It effected this horses lungs. I had an aunt that was blind in one eye from it.

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:25 pm

Well of all the possibilities this one is one that often has a very high success rate. You have a diagnosis, a plan of action, and luck is already smiling on you.

Hopefully everything is looking up from here on out. CR

griffgirl · Post by **griffgirl** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 3:15 am

Just wondering .....was he around any muddy/mucky water that could of had this in it ?In the early Summer I try to say away from areas like this especially where Ducks/Birds are nesting,Roosting or just where they hang out.

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 9:17 am

griffgirl wrote:Just wondering .....was he around any muddy/mucky water that could of had this in it ?In the early Summer I try to say away from areas like this especially where Ducks/Birds are nesting,Roosting or just where they hang out.

It's not a waterborne disease. Bats and birds leave their droppings around in the soil where it is then disturbed and breathed in as dust. CR

bwjohn · Post by **bwjohn** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 11:41 am

Charlie your are correct.

It is most prevalent out in the Midwest and the Ohio River Valley according to our vet. Although there are cases in other areas as well. Lander is not as well traveled as some of the FT dogs but he has been in every state in from Ga to Pa and Hungary. He could have picked it up anywhere at anytime and it could have stayed in his body until now. So that makes it really hard to narrow down where it came from.

But dry dusty areas where birds are around, makes it kind of hard on bird dogs.

brandon

Post by **kninebirddog** » Mon Jul 14, 2008 12:23 pm

This sounds very similiar to Valley Fever which we have in the valley of the south west areas it comes from disturbed dirt which the fungus is inhaled in dust

Whether you show up with it or not is depending on how much your exposed to and your bodies natural resistance to it

most the time it hits in the lungs but sometimes will disseminate to other parts of the body attacking joints nad bone or other organs also sometimes creating lesions on the skin

many people or even dogs may show some slight symptoms like having a cold for a day or so and bounce back but ..
the more construction we are seeing there has been a great increase in cases of valley fever we ahve a buddy who just came off of meds for it but mostly it is dogs that show up with the most signs

Do they test for titers counts for the histoplasmosis? that is how they find the Valley fever it is a very common test anymore here in AZ and other south west communities

griffgirl · Post by **griffgirl** » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:18 am

I knew it wasnt IN water but I was thinking about mud/muck ? Or is it just in dry areas ? We have a few billion Geese here where I live and they crap everywhere.

bwjohn · Post by **bwjohn** » Wed Jul 16, 2008 9:25 pm

Sorry for such the delayed response, but I have good news. The samples taken from Lander came back negative for histoplasmosis. Since last Friday he has seen a dramatic improvement in his attitude and demeanor.

The vet was confident enough on Friday that we had started the treatment for histo, but by Monday he was acting like a totally different dog. Even as early as Sat. morning he started eating, something that he had not done since 7/1. We have him home now and are working him back into his regular routine. He is still down about 10-11 pounds, but all of the major symptoms have disappeared. The vet was a little confused because she had never seen some of the symptoms come and go so fast with no real definite answer.

But we are thankful and are keeping a close eye on him to make sure we catch any kind of a relapse quickly.

Griffgirl,
I am not for sure of the exact environment that it takes to promote histo or any other fungal infection for that matter. But I do believe that it is more prevalent in the Miss. River Valley, the Ohio River Valley and the Appalachian Mts. I do believe that young male dogs seem to be more vulnerable to it. Some dogs could live just fine with the histo inside their body, but some it will affect significantly. As our vet explained to us, they have not determined why the dogs that do get affected by histo are and why the ones that are not, are not. Sorry not much help.

Brandon

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:33 am

So very glad things are getting better

!! I know you have been worried so much.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 7:55 am

Congratulation on the good results! Could it be possible that CR could have been correct related to poison, Or did they for sure rule that out with a tox screen?

claybuster_aa · Post by **claybuster_aa** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 6:57 pm

Brandon,
Did the thought that maybe all this was in some way food caused ever cross your mind? Maybe you possibly hit a really bad batch of food? I was thinking this all along but reluctant to comment because some take great offense when you mention the possibility it relates to store bought commercial kibble. You mentioned your dog seems to be recovering well and is starting to eat again. Just to be on the safe side if you haven't already done so, I would get rid of any uneaten food from that last bag before this all began and get a new bag of whatever it is you feed.

Best wishes for your dog and glad to hear things are getting better.

Charlie

Post by **ezzy333** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 8:42 pm

Charlie they already know what the problem is and it isn't connected to the dogfood. But it was a good thought except if the food had caused it there would be many dogs in the same shape. Not a lot you can do to prevent the inhaled fungi and they can be rather severe occasionally.

Ezzy

claybuster_aa · Post by **claybuster_aa** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:01 pm

ezzy333 wrote:Charlie they already know what the problem is and it isn't connected to the dogfood.Ezzy

I think Brandon had noted negative for histoplasmosis. Has there been another update?

The samples taken from Lander came back negative for histoplasmosis. Since last Friday he has seen a dramatic improvement in his attitude and demeanor. brandon

I was thinking from this they still don't know what exactly caused this to happen being the samples were negative, unless I missed another diagnosis somewhere? thanks, Charlie.

claybuster_aa · Post by **claybuster_aa** » Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:22 pm

Awhile back I commented something might be food caused when a poster was having difficulty with her dog and grasses...allergic reactions every time in the field, etc. I think she got very upset and haven't seen her post any more since. I would hate to think she got so offended that I mentioned that they left the group, but I think that is what happened. I guess some really get bothered about that sort of thing, something weird happening and suggesting being food caused. Therefore, sometimes it's best not to mention it but if the Vets are still unsure and there has been no definitive answer in Brandon's case, I'm thinking throw any uneaten food from that old batch and get a new bag just to be on the safe side. Charlie

bwjohn · Post by **bwjohn** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:50 am

Charlie,
I do not know if it is food related or not. The vet did not really feel like it was b/c he has been on the same food for almost a year now, and the symptoms set in so fast. Although it is not completely out of the realm of possibility. We have him on a very bland diet and will not start working him back into his normal diet until late next week.

But it is something that we definitely asked about. Hopefully it is not, because he seemed to do so well on his food before all of this happened. Good shape, kept weight on, coat look good and etc.

Brandon

jackmcmanus21 · Post by **jackmcmanus21** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:44 am

good luck with everything...I'm sorry to hear the bad news

Born2Hunt · Post by **Born2Hunt** » Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:50 am

My Vizsla had the same thing happen 2 years ago he dropped 10 pound had the runs all the time had him to the vet 100 different times with all the different test, even did the exploratory surgery to see if they could see something wrong with his bowels.... Nothing showed up in his blood work all test were normal but he was getting worse by the day, to the point we thought that we were going to have to put him down... Then all of a sudden he started eating again and he we are 2 years later and several thousands of dollars and he looks better than he ever has.... Go figure!! Glad to hear everything is working out..

bwjohn · Post by **bwjohn** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:52 pm

hello to everyone,
Just thought that I would give an update on Lander. It is not good, for a while there it seemed a lot better and then all of the symptoms began to relapse. Possible more serious than before. Some of the organs are still enlarged, especially the lymph nodes (I know not an organ), also there is a definite thickening of the intestines in one area. But more serious is the amount of blood lately in his stool and some in his vomit. His attitude seems much better and he is drinking water on his own and wants to eat, just not keeping it down.

We were so encouraged when he had a few good days, but they quickly turned and I have been so discouraged that I had not posted. The latest news is that we are going to do a test for Pythiosis, another fungal like infection. Vet is not sure about it. We are also going to plan an exploratory surgery for late this week or first thing next week.

It looks as though we are out of other options, we need to find out what is wrong with him.

thanks for all of the thoughts and wishes,

Brandon

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:01 pm

I really hope things turn out better then they sound.Hang in there,wishing for the best.

Born2Hunt · Post by **Born2Hunt** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:34 pm

Sorry to hear that Brandon... Hang in there..

Elroy's Bandit · Post by **Elroy's Bandit** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:04 am

Our thoughts and prayers are with you. Hope everything works out for you.
Bill L.

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:12 pm

I've been thinking about what shots to get my dogs as the Fall trial season approaches. It's not an easy decision here in Ontario . I usually do some research on what was a problem in Michigan, Penn. and N.Y. last year as dogs from these States come to our Championships.

As I was reading about lepto. ( bacteria) - its' serious symptoms etc. I thought of your dog. They seemed similiar.

I could be totally out in left field but I thought i would mention it.

http://www.wyethah.ca/canine.asp?pageid=c3faq

bwjohn · Post by **bwjohn** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:15 pm

what is lepto?

Brandon

bwjohn · Post by **bwjohn** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:31 pm

Sharon,
I looked up Lepto. Lander has the vaccine for lepto, but the vaccine does not prevent all of the forms of lepto. I will bring it up to the vet this afternoon when we speak.

brandon

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:08 pm

They try their best to come up with a vaccine that uses the serovars that were common last year, but lepto can have a variety of serovars.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Tue Jul 29, 2008 9:22 pm

It's a bacteria, leptospira, and is treatable with antibiotics. Usually spread thru urine.