seizure

[GSP9]

Last night my 2.5 year old GSP had a seizure. Up until this point he has been very healthy. My wife and I were laying in bed watching TV and he was laying at the foot of the bed...all of a sudden he stiffens up and starrts jerking around, eyes bugged out, foaming at the mouth. It only lasted about 1 minute and then he was back to noranl...went downstairs to eat and drink, wanted to go outside to look for the bunnies under the shed. It was very scary for my wife and I as we have never witnessed this.

I am going to call my vet in a little bit when they open and try to get him looked at ASAP. Does anyone else have any experience with this? The dog comes from a reputable breeded and is happy and full of energy. He gets plenty of exercise, don't think he got into anything recently, and I haven't changed his food.

Is this something that will ruin his hunting career? Anxious to see what the vet will say. Could it be a one time thing?

Any input from you guys would be great...we are a little shook up at the moment.

[tfbirddog2]

A friend of mine had a lab that started having seizures out of the blue went to very and vet couldnt explain, after about 8 to 10 months of seizures he just happen to get the a new stainless steel water bucket and fooddish and they quit the vet thought it was maybe the petroleum base in the plastic that was giving the dog the seizures that was the first thing they tried and sloved the problem.The dogs at the lodge that have started getting them have been the ones that have had lead exposer from being shot.

[mountaindogs]

I know food dishes and water bowls commonly cause a particular type of allergy in cats, and somtimes skin issues in dogs. I also know that you are hard pressed to find bowls and buckets not made in china anymore, and much of the red dye (used in some yellows, purple and orange colors too) contains lead like the dyes that were recalled form the US way back when in the 70's. Our small town pet store owner does not sell pet food bowl for the hamsters mice etc, because they chew on their bowls and she has yet to find bowls for the small animals not made in China. So she just uses small human grade glass or plastic bowls.

But never heard of seizures from it. Still I think there is alot about seizure we do not know. About 10 years ago my vet told me that hip dysplasia was 99.9% genetic. Now my new vets all feel that it is still strongly genetic, but put the percentage much lower with food and growth rate as a significant factor.

It is all very confusing and needs more study I think.
I am sorry to here of your trouble, but no it should not ruin his hunting. There is so much we don't know about this. I know of dogs who have had an episode once and were never placed on meds and never had issues again. I also know of dogs that had them very frequently even on the meds. Your vet may want to put him on meds such as phenobarbitol (sp). Unless he is very severe, even unmedicated the seizures would happen only periodically. Vets can give you meds to give them to help if they should have a siezure when you are too far from the vets office.

The most important thing to keep in mind is to help keep him from hurting himself during a seizure, and be careful yourself as a biting chewing reflex is common, along with leg paddeling, and if it does not quickly stop on its own GET TO THE VET ASAP. The body temperature will rise quickly and stay high, and extended seizure activity will cause brain damage if it goes on and on. You need to get it stopped as soon as you can. But in between his seizures, IF indeed this is a continuing issue for him, he will still be his normal self.

[dog dr]

have your vet take a look at him and even run some bloodwork to make sure everything is working like it should. i usually donr recommend putting them on phenobarb unless they are seizuring once a month or more.

[GSP9]

Well, I had him at the vet this morning. They did blood work and everything checked out normal. THey told me to keep track of him and let them know if it happens again. They said it could never happen again, or become more frequent. I will just have to keep my eye on him. Thanks to everyone for their thoughts and comments.

[GSP9]

Well...things are not getting any better at all. Last night, he had another seizure. Almost exactly 24 hours after the first one. It lasted about 2 minutes. We took him to the emergency vet...I was concerned and figured a second opinion from my regular vet early in the day wouldn't hurt.

The E-vet did another round of bloodwork and basically came to the conclusion that it is epilepsy. He recommended we start him on phenobarbital. They faxed all of the test results to my regular vet and I am waiting on a call from them.

I just hope we can get this straightened out fast. It is really tough worrying about when the next one will be and constantly being anxious about it. I have been reading about the Phenobarb all day. Does anyone else have any experience with this? What can I expect?

[Karen]

It's not considered a new seizure event until 24 hours has passed so I'd probably consider the 2nd seizure part of the original seizure event.

I've had 2 dogs with epilepsy, both medicated with Phenobarbital. It takes a couple weeks to build up a level in their system, so it really won't start working for at least 2 weeks and even then the dosage may need to be adjusted.

My vet always wrote me a prescription for 100 tablets to be filled at the pharmacy. It ran me approximately $11 a prescription, which lasted me nearly 2 months so it's a relatively inexpensive drug and fairly safe. We tested liver enzymes once a year to make sure it wasn't doing any liver damage but never had any problems with it.

Seizures less than once a month are considered controlled, but with the meds we only dealt with seizures 2-3 times a year. The best thing you can do at this point is start a journal about the seizures. When your dog has one, time them, time how long it takes for the dog to recover from the seizure, note anything unusual...exercise, outside temps, any change in diet, any recent vet visit (my dog always had a seizure within a week of getting his kennel cough vaccine), anything that might be relevant.

The first few seizures are very scary, but you do get used to them. Hopefully they will be infrequent. Epilepsy is thought to be hereditary, so if you haven't done so already, this dog should probably be neutered.

[GSP9]

Karen,

I appreciate this info. The seizure was a little past 24 hours. He was absolutely normal in between. This dog will not be bred. I have contacted his breeder to see if there is any family history here.

Thanks again.

[zzweims]

You may want to talk to your breeder about at least a partial refund.

Aline
http://sitekreator.com/zzfarms

[mountaindogs]

Yes, but family history can come about after the fact. I had a gallbladder attack at age 22 a few months after the birth of my 1st son. My doctor misdiagnosed it based solely on a LACK of family history which he said gallbladder disease nearly always has. Two years later my grandmother had trouble and then the next year my dad had his removed. I had a family history I just predated it.

We had a breeder of a rare breed come to our clinic with a seizuring puppy about 8 months old. They have had the same lines for 7 generations and have never had a dog with seizures, know anyone who did, or had any puppies that did. They keep track fr all the puppies and often don't sell 4 or 5 out of a litter until after 6 months to be able to make the best choice of both hunting instinct and conformation. So now what should they do? Entirely abandon the whole line of dogs? Is it a guarantee that somewhere there is a ressesive gene hidding in the lines. Is it possible it was a mutation with this dog or another cause? This is a breed with a limited gene pool mind you. I don't know, I am just musing here.

[AHGSP]

GSP,

Did you have them run the full panel, including Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, of Tickborne Titers?
RMSF:
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm ... icleid=472

The quote below, directly from the link. Bold is my doing.
"Most dogs have neurological signs (dizziness, depression, stupor, seizures) and these can sometimes become very severe."

[GSP9]

They ran all of the tests. Two different doctors diagnosed it as epilepsy.

[GSP9]

For you that are dealing with this as well...Did the Phenobarb help? The vet told me he would act differently for a few weeks once we started the medicine...well right now he definitely is acting a litte different. He has his normal amount of energy, but just seems a little wobbly and not all together there. Almost like he is drunk. I have been reading about this Phenobarb all day and it seems like it is successful in allot of cases. I was also suprised at how cheap it is.

[mountaindogs]

Quoted from the link AHGSP posted... looks like results for both ways would take at least a few days to two weeks

"Several blood tests are available which test for the dog's antibodies (proteins produced to fight off the infection) to R. rickettsii. Since we need to look for a change in the antibody levels, usually two tests will be done 2 weeks apart and the results compared. Dogs with an active infection will show a significant rise in the amount of antibody present.

A test is also available which detects antigens (protein parts) of R. rickettsii. This test can become positive as early as 4 days after the tick bite. This test is not a blood test, but a small biopsy of the skin at the site of the tick bite is tested."

[The Zephyr]

GSP9

I can empathize with your situation. I too have a dog with epilepsy. I raised her from a pup and had her with me always, took her to the office and she slept at my feet. I bred her after she had been OFA'd and received a Senior hunt title. She was a great hunting dog. Unfortunately, one of her puppies showed signs of epilepsy after being spayed. The owner who was very kind went the phenobarbital route until it got so bad the dog had to be put down. The other puppies in the litter have all been neutered after I contacted their owners and made my recommendation.
I was in denial of the situation, quite certain to blame the stud as he had some show behind him. That was until one night I was reading in the living room and I heard the younger dog play barking in the kitchen. I went in to tell her to hold it down, only to find my oldest girl, she was eight at the time, stove up against the refrigerator, paddlewheeling and foaming at the mouth. It broke my heart. I layed her head across my lap until the seizure subsided and made her comfortable. Within an hour she was back up again and moving about the house freely.
I hadn't seen another seizure until recently when I had her on a strong antbiotic. She had two seizures in a 48 hour period and I pulled her off the script after contacting the Vet. She's now eleven and I'm afraid old age is taking it's toll on her daily. I lift her when she can't jump and wait for her to catch up when we go for walks.
Enjoy your time with your shorthair. The epilepsy may subside and offer the both of you a good long time together.

With regards,

John L.

[Karen]

Here's a really good website about canine epilepsy:

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/

[GSP9]

Zephyr,
I appreciate your words about the epilepsy. Have you ever treated with phenobarb? From what I have been reading it is a wait and see for now.

Karen,
Thank you for the link. I think I was on that site quite a bit today but will check it out.

[brittfans]

every dog I have owned in the past ten years or has been owned by family or neighbors has had a seizure at one time or another.One dog had one every day for two weeks threw up a piece of a soocer ball and has never had another one.another dog has had maybe four in seven years.My brothers dog has one every few days.I have seen lots of vets and they cant explain why they just say to keep track of them to see if there is something setting them off.I have also been told that they dont want to use medication unless the dog is having one every few hours.I think that giving heart worm medication [insecticide]ever month might be somthing in common? Just a thought.

[AHGSP]

You got it L!
They do the initial workup to determine a "Control Level" of Antibodies IF present and then do the 2nd Test to determine if the dog is/was acute or sub-clinical at the time of symptoms. Clinical would show active infection at the time of symptoms. The Heartworm Test that, I believe if not mistaken, is also used to screen for Lyme WON'T see the antibodies for RMSF OR Ehrlichia(sp?)and any Vet assuming it will, SHOULD be 2nd guessed! This blood work MUST be sent off to a Lab, unless your Vet happens to be at one of the Universities or has his own Medical Lab...... I seriously doubt the dog was tested for RMSF and unfortunately, it doesn't just exist in the Rockies.......

Other Test that should be done BEFORE administering Phenobarb, Potassium Bhromide, Sodium Bhromide or one of the other prescribed drugs are: CBC, Serum Profile, Urinalysis, Liver Shunt(Bile assay, ammonia tolerance) and Thyroid at a minimum.

Quoted from the link AHGSP posted... looks like results for both ways would take at least a few days to two weeks

"Several blood tests are available which test for the dog's antibodies (proteins produced to fight off the infection) to R. rickettsii. Since we need to look for a change in the antibody levels, usually two tests will be done 2 weeks apart and the results compared. Dogs with an active infection will show a significant rise in the amount of antibody present.

A test is also available which detects antigens (protein parts) of R. rickettsii. This test can become positive as early as 4 days after the tick bite. This test is not a blood test, but a small biopsy of the skin at the site of the tick bite is tested."

[GSP9]

AHGSP,
Although I appreciate your concern, your second guessing of my situation is starting to irritate me. I am sorry if you disagree with two different vet's diagnosis, but since I have no other choice and can't bear to watch my dog continue to have seizures, I am going to follow through on what they recommend. Hopefully it all works out for me.

Thanks for your understanding.

[The Zephyr]

GSP9,

No, I myself did not use Phenobarbital to treat my dog's epilepsy. As I stated the first occurence I witnessed was when she was eight. Although I had my dog with me most waking hours, the vet said she might have had other seizures while I slept. The few incidents that I witnessed were not enough for me to consider a regimen of Phenobarbital.
The puppy that I bred who did have epilepsy did not express symptoms until after she was spayed. Also, her coat reddened and never returned to a true liver after neutering.
I'm not sure I can give you a clear answer. It seems some dogs maybe predisposed to the ailment and something else triggers its appearance (ie - the strong antibiotics I gave her for UTI).

On a side note. I hunted the old girl hard, ducks, geese, grouse, and pheasant. It never deterred her enthusiasm

I hope you can enjoy some good times ahead with your dog and stay positive.

John L.

[AHGSP]

My sincerest apologies.

Just trying to help you see to it that what could be the cause of your pups ailment is treated, vs. just treating symptoms. RMSF can be fatal if left untreated.

Again, my sincerest apologies. I'm only speaking from experience and hope you will accept my apology.
Wishing the best of luck for you and the puppers. I know it can be extremely stressful when your dog is ill and there seems to be nothing you can do about it.

[brittfans]

I know I didnt help you with your problem.I would also do what the vet and I thought was the best for the dog.the first time it happens you panic and your helpless because there isnt any thing you can do.after its happened a few times you can pickup some signs drooling,pacing, glazed look my dogs want to get right in my lap.I found that if I make them lay down and talk to them and pet them the seizure dont last as long and are not as bad.I have a 7 year old dog that only has them at night and jumps right on you in bed its hard to be carring at three in the morning.I think this happens alot My dogs are house dog so Im with them all the time.My vet told me to try to give them karo syrup before or after a seizure but I found this to hard to time and when they are done with the seizure its like it never happened.

[brav302]

I have a beagle that has seizures also. He does not have them very often, once or twice a year seems to be the pattern. When he had his first we talked to the vet about medicine to help prevent them. Our vet did not recomend any medication unless they started to become more regular, like monthly, because the medication can have adverse effects on the liver. So you may want to look into this and not start the medication until you see if they are accuring often enough to justify the risk. I'm no vet so this is all based on what our vet said.

[Petra]

My GSP was having very mild seizures and a kept a log and it coinsided with the heart worm med and swithed to Interceptor, all is well so far.

[mountaindogs]

Petra, I would be interested to know 2 things. First is the heartworm med fairly new? Released in the last few years? I have heard others with particular issues so I wondered. And second, did your dog have more than one seizure after heartworm meds were given? How did they seem to pattern?

[Petra]

to mountaindogs, what Petra was having was petit (sp) seizures, that we thought was maybe due to low blood sugar, also the only time that I saw them was in the evening and infrequent so I kept a log what food used and exercise level etc. the vet I _was! seeing wanted to put her on meds. but having had a dog with strong seizures I knew how the med would effect her, so I refused. She has been doing rehab for a questionable ACL tear (which I know now is a tear TTA surgery on June 2) that is another story. but during this time I saw an article by another GSP owner with similar seizures and in his log the seizures went along with the heartworm meds so I looked at my log and they were at the month apart and no seizures during the winter when I stopped them, discussed this with the Vet. Specialist doing the rehab. and she said collies and long nose dogs are the most to get seizures from certain meds, we went to Interceptor heartworm med that has not yet shown any of these side effects. GOOD LUCK

[monksmom]

You may want to talk to your breeder about at least a partial refund.

Aline
http://sitekreator.com/zzfarms

In addition to requesting a partial refund, the breeder and you should most likely not breed either your dog or the dog's parents in the future, particularly if there is a history of seizures in siblings or in progeny of their other litters. There is beleived to be a genetic cause for seizures, although there may also be some environmental triggers. Unfortunately, there is not a specific genetic marker(s) that I am aware of in dogs. I have come to know this as I learned after my pup was about a year old that his grandfather had produced some litters with pups who developed siezures. So far they have not appeared in my dog but may up to the age of 5. Makes life a lot more complex and uncertain.