Dog food around the country

claybuster_aa · Post by **claybuster_aa** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:12 pm

ezzy333 wrote:
claybuster_aa wrote:
slistoe wrote:Stuff on the bag is what it is. It is not some fabrication. As ezzy says, 42% posted on the bag is 42%. No ifs ands or buts. Sources are not on the bag -eg. 42% animal protein - that is stuff of marketing.

33% beet pulp is a pure fabrication. It is a blatant, outright falsehood (unless someone can show me how to do the math to make it right). You say that in spite of this fact, you don't care and Abady is the only ones being truthful. OK.....what do you have a degree in????

No need to post if you don't want to, I have stated my point enough for reasonable thinking people to see the truth, I won't be restating it again.
OK, you're right, and they are wrong. 3% fiber w/ beet pulp means it stays at 3% on a volume metric basis even after being hydrated...all BS and don't believe anything they say. It is all lies. And on that note I think I will take Ezzy's advice and stop posting. Thank you all.

Charlie

Though I hate to see anyone quit I think we are all much better off. Come back when you can have a decent discussion about things without telling all of us that your opinions are correct and the facts that are out there are all wrong.

Thank you Charlie

Ezzy

Your welcome Ezzy. Not quitting, not going anywhere, just don't want to discuss dog food 101 anymore. I mean, you even said a biochemist and a nutritionist are the same thing? I just can't take it any longer. It's pointless. Thanks but no thanks.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:25 pm

Hang in there everyone with Charley. We'll get him lined out. He's not as far off base as some of you think. I think some of the research he quotes is sometimes taken out of context, and after making the same point once or twice, he needs to get off of it. He's not a bad ol boy, so let's be patient.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:29 pm

Ezzy, I haven't bought any food for about six weeks as I had to put down my G. shepherd about four months ago so two bags lasted longer. I hope I can buy Premium for about 22. it was 19.(50 lbs)

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Sun May 11, 2008 5:57 am

Yesterday, I discovered that Diamond Premium came up to about $21.25 tax included for 50 lbs.. It's still generally the best food penny per pound on the market. Diamond has sl better foods but costs more. Iams has a very good product, but who wants to pay over 80 cents a pound? My Llewellin does not work very hard, and could do well on Diamond's maintenance, but I like to pamper my friend and spend sl over 40 cents a pound.

Killer Instinct · Post by **Killer Instinct** » Wed May 14, 2008 7:01 pm

oakcreek wrote:I made the switch from native to exceed. I pick it up 35 miles from my house at 23.50 for a 44lb bag. So far results have been good. Pretty much all the dogs maintained through the winter on 4 cups, pointers and labs. Minimal stool that washes off easy, good ingredients (similiar to pro-plan performance or Eukanuba performance). So far things are going well.

I'm with oakcreek - made the switch from Nutro to Exceed (Sam's Club)... also in 44lb bag for roughly same price.....

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Thu May 15, 2008 10:29 am

Have you noticed a difference since you changed to Exceed or is it to soon to tell? More stool volume?

Killer Instinct · Post by **Killer Instinct** » Thu May 15, 2008 10:09 pm

MikeB wrote:Have you noticed a difference since you changed to Exceed or is it to soon to tell? More stool volume?

Actually, she has less stool volume on Exceed (Thank God!)... she originally was on Iams Puppy - her stool volume was tremendous. Then I saw a previous thread regarding dog food & saw Rick Hall's pic of his dog's stool in comparison with his toes. It was then that I made the the decision to switch from Iams to Nutro in search for smaller stools.... but Nutro costs a whole lot more than Exceed, so switched to Exceed about 3 weeks ago.... and like the results... all due to a pic of Rick Hall's toes...

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Fri May 16, 2008 7:25 am

So does that mean that Rick is kinda like a Turd?

Killer Instinct · Post by **Killer Instinct** » Fri May 16, 2008 10:35 am

Well, now that you metion it....

Nah, just liked his turd pics with added bonus of toes.....

Rick Hall · Post by **Rick Hall** » Fri May 16, 2008 1:35 pm

big steve46 wrote:So does that mean that Rick is kinda like a Turd?

Wondered why my ears were burning.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Wed May 21, 2008 10:36 pm

Our dogs are blessed. There are a lot of good formulas, many of them similar to each other. The good brands put out several products that do the job well. Again, dog food generally is more nutritious for the dogs than the foods we feed ourselves. Our food has been overly processed to remove nutrients whereas dog food has not.

petey · Post by **petey** » Thu May 22, 2008 4:28 am

I feed Sportmix in the yellow bag, it's the "Hunter's Select". I never see anybody mention Sportmix, I know it's probably not the best feed out there but it''s fair and makes firm stools on my pointers and still at a fair price. 17.00 dollars for 50 lbs, I wish I could feed Pro Plan or one of the upper end feeds but the budget don't allow it.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Thu May 22, 2008 7:11 am

I had heard of Sportmix, but had not reviewed the formulas until a few minutes ago. Looks good to me. Your formula is similar to Diamond's Hi-Energy. I feed Diamond Premium which is similar to Sportmix Energy. In other words, I prefer a 26-18 formula. A food is cost effective if your dog does and looks well, and if they process it well, and that can be achieved without paying big prices.

Big Dave · Post by **Big Dave** » Thu May 22, 2008 4:02 pm

I have fed mostly Black Gold the last ten years. Diamond or Sportmix when I can't find BG. I have trialed, hunted in 5 states and guided on these feeds. They are very solid feeds and a good value. I had a well known Vet and top field trialer tell me once that it was "better to have a 100 dollar dog and feed 10 dollar feed than to have a 10 dollar dog and feed 100 dollar feed."

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:55 pm

Almost three weeks has passed, so has anyone tried any new or different feed lately? What feeds are not available in your area that you'd like to try?

rockllews · Post by **rockllews** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:31 pm

Black Gold Ultimate Performance, Black Gold Ultimate Adult
Diamond Naturals Extreme Athlete, Diamond Naturals Chicken and Rice
Royal Canin MediumActive Special 25 and Cynotechnique 4800
Native Levels 2 and 3
Arkat VF Complete Active Adult
Nutrisource Chicken and Rice, Nutrisource Performance
Canidae Chicken and Rice

We are currently switching foods and the above are what I've narrowed it down to, according to my own specs/preferences. The last three will probably be too much $$ right now, but I'm waiting for some purchasing information from Nutrisource. Arket VF is slightly cheaper than what we're paying now (can get it 30 mi away for $35/40lb bag but I forgot to ask about buying in bulk). Royal Canin is also a bit too pricey (or at least, not a decrease from what we're paying now). Waiting for responses from a Black Gold wholesaler, seeing if we can buy in bulk from him or become dealers ourselves; as well as waiting for word from a feed store, trying to work out special ordering from them for those specific Diamond Naturals formulas. Might just try retailing food ourselves if we can meet requirements (I've no idea what's involved yet)...

Nutro Natural Choice High Energy is what we've been feeding for a few years (and Nutro puppy formulas, and now weight management), but with prices up to $41.95/40 lbs bag, we need to start looking at other brands. We really liked Nutro products... kept our dogs in good shape. We did try a formula from Nutro Max this last time (because the store didn't have NNC Hi Energy in stock... as 'usual') and the dogs didn't like it that much. I'm afraid the magpies ate more of it than they did.... But that was a first for Nutro products... normally our dogs it most of their formulas well.

We're in the NW, so any folks feeding multiple sporting dogs around here, what do you use?

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:59 pm

I decided to eat the dog food myself and see if I have better skin, energy and smaller .......

vzkennels · Post by **vzkennels** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:01 pm

This subject stirs up more BS then all the rest put together.

rockllews · Post by **rockllews** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:56 pm

Sharon, While my younger brother used to ingest a variety of dog treats while he was young... I can't say either of us has been eating dog food lately. Hope you enjoyed yours.

Post by **Sharon** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:25 pm

I guess my comment was pretty rude.

What I was thinking was: I can't believe how concerned we are about what our dog's eat when we are quite willing to put all kinds of junk in our own mouths and let so many children in this world go hungry.

That's the end of my rant. I won't say anymore about dog food.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:10 pm

I can't believe how concerned we are about what our dog's eat when we are quite willing to put all kinds of junk in our own mouths and let so many children go hungry

Good point Sharron though I don't quite get the kids going hungry connection. I've said the same thing many times.

Steve,

There are many feedss not advailable around here but I would rather you try them. My dogs are doing good on what they are getting now so I have no desire to change or try something new. I have never understood the mentality that I see on here so often that they need to change feeds. I am yet to find one that doesn't work but there are some I like better than others. Right now, both dogs and the little pup are enjoying their Diamond Premium. I had to use several other feeds in the past few months since my source of Diamond had dried up but I found a farmers elevator in a little town north of here that is handling it and has a decent price so I will bite the bullet and make the trip to get a few bags every month or two.

Ezzy

rockllews · Post by **rockllews** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:53 pm

Sharon... I didn't take your comment as rude at all, even if you meant it that way... thought it was funny.

I was just continuing the thread, with small hopes of receiving some suggestions from those in the NW. Increased prices are pushing us for a change in feed, otherwise we wouldn't be doing it. Concern about food? While I'm sure it's debateable, I think I'm fairly careful with what I feed myself and figure my dogs deserve a lil' consideration, too. There are lots of ways and formulas to feed one's dogs- to each his own... wasn't trying to stir up debate. Chelsea

oakcreek · Post by **oakcreek** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:21 pm

Not that anyone asked, but I thought I would give alittle info on my feed critque (not that it means much). By the way I feed around 15 dogs including a few pups here and there

I started out feeding diamond premium, good food, dogs seemed to take dumps like elephants, and I was feeding anywhere between 4-6 cups depending on the dogs. I believe it was $15 for 50lbs back then

Switched to black gold black bag, used it for about a year. dogs did well, still a lot of crap, and no decrease in feed amounts. It was a good cost, but my dogs lost weight during the winters and my field trial dogs didn't hold up very well on it. $18 for 50lbs

Went to Arkat enhance 30/22 or whatever it was. It worked really well, dogs held condition, price was right, was able to feed around 3-4 cups and maintain weight year round. However the crap just stuck to the concrete like a slime and I constantly was pulling the shovel out to scrap every kennel $22 for 40lbs

Went back to black gold this time the ultimate series- dogs did really well, I was able to pretty much feed 3-4 cups to everything and maintain condition. $22 for 40lbs

Tried Nutrisource for awhile- it was a good feed, to expensive for me. I believe $32 for 40lbs

Used Native for 6 months dogs did well, but had to feed at least 4 cups to everything, and had some dogs that didn't do well on it at all. $24 for 40lbs

Ended up switching to exceed and have been nothing but happy. Stools are minimal, somtimes a little soft, and with some dogs a little hard to clean. I fed 31/2 cups during the winter and now have been able to cut back to 21/2 for the pointers and 3 for the labs. Some of the dogs that get worked more then the others get a little more, but not much. For those that think that chicken is worthless as a first ingredient, exceed's second ingredient is chicken meal. It does have beet pulp, and a couple fillers. I would strongly urge anyone to go to a sams and see if it works for you. I don't necissarily like sams as a company, however money is always tight and I believe it is the best food for the money. 23.70 for 44lbs

I even fed exclusive for a little while, but it is $32 for 35lbs of the performance with every 7th bag free. and I didn't see a great difference for the cost.

So as you can see I have used a lot of food over the last 7 or so years since I started this kennel. Obvisouly this is just my opinion, who knows I might be on another food for next year.

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:36 pm

It does have beet pulp, and a couple fillers

Beet pulp is used for the health of the intestines. Its one of the few fibersthat the bacteria canactually break downand is used because of it. Have no idea what youthink is a filler, could you list them,since every ingredient I see listed is there for a purpose and are not fillers. I just have never found sand in any dog food and that would be the only filler I can think of.

Ezzy

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:48 pm

Ezzy, I agree. I've mostly fed Diamond Premium for several years also with occas table scraps thrown in. My dogs don't get worked hard, have good stools, and look good. I've got a couple of cats that eat it also. I figure that their quality of food is more nutritious by far comparatively then the food we put into our bodies. For those that want perhaps even better feed, and are willing to pay more, more power to them. I thought I had read earlier that some in the NW were having trouble getting certain brands. I know there's a lot of redundancy here, but to me it's still more interesting to talk about dogfood and nutrition than a lot of gibberish I read.

oakcreek · Post by **oakcreek** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:03 pm

I guess i meant by products, which I believe Brewers rice is. Not for sure on that. And there is no reason to bang your head against a wall with me ezzy I agree with most everything you have written. i have never had a problem with beet pulp, and prefer some corn in my dog food

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:19 am

Oakcreek,

Not railing against you but I see the word filler used so often by so many I just want to know what they are calling fillers and why. Some people think the beet pulp is a fillerbut is included in many of the good dog foods for the reasons I stated. I have seen cornlisted and several others and nothing could be further from the truth. The Brewers Rice is a by-product of the beer industry primarity same as corn. They use the sugar and starch out of it and it leaves a high protien ingredient as a by-product. It is a highly digestible ingredient and is normally used in smaller quanities to bring the total protien level of the feed up. Many times you have to search for certain amino acids that are shortin the other ingredients and that is why you see different ingredients used in different feeds.

Again I didn't mean to upset you but wanted to know what you were calling a filler. Maybe you hit on the problem and people just don't use the right term or don't know the difference between the ingredients and don't know why they are included in the feed.

Ezzy

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:35 pm

I think some people use the term "filler" to indicate a low-quality or low-important food source. In that context, there may be some accuracy to the term if it's understood. I don't use the term myself, but can understand why some do.

Post by **ezzy333** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:52 pm

Don't think there are ingredients less important than others. It would be like making a cake, which ingredient is the less important?

Ezzy

oakcreek · Post by **oakcreek** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:17 pm

There may not be more important ingredient, but their can be better ingredients

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:10 am

Ezzy, Ezzy, you know better! You're funning me, aren't you? I think a meat source such as chicken would be more important than brewer's rice for example.

snips · Post by **snips** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:37 am

I have not been reading much of this dogfood stuff, gets kinda old....But Oakridge, your sinario is EXACTLY what we have been thru, and we are feeding about 40 dogs. We tried several well recommended feeds, used Pride for several yrs and really liked it until it got too hard to get. You are the first one that said the same thing we found with the stools on Arkat, just stuck to the concrete, had to scrape it up.... We went to Exceed and LOVE IT. Stools cut in half, firm, and dogs look great. We are hooked

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:04 pm

I've never tried Exceed, but it looks like it has good ingredients. Not bad priced for a performance level feed. No doubt it's a good one to try.

Equismith · Post by **Equismith** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 9:04 pm

I'm now feeding this:

http://walmart.triaddigital.com/enhance ... 14650.aspx

I was listening to a local radio talk show a few weeks ago and they were having folks call in about dog foods and the ingredients within.

I went to the local stores and did a comparison of ingredients. The Wal-Mart premium Maxximum food had the best ingredients in my book. So far the dogs have eaten it much better than the Purina I was feeding them. Their weight looks good and their appetites have improved greatly.

http://hubpages.com/hub/Maxximum-Dog-Food-Review

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 6:35 am

Haven't seen that one in WalMart. Checked the website, but couldn't find the list of ingredients and cost. What are the first 6 ingredients and the cost?

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:09 am

I think it is the best food they handle. Comes in a maroon bag. They do have a couple of decent Old Roy feeds that look like they would be pretty good. They are all higher than you can buy elsewhere though. Hope someday I can tell the good feeds from the bad by looking at the bag.

Ezzy

Equismith · Post by **Equismith** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:05 am

Maxximum Lamb and Rice

less than $16 for 20lbs.....for now.

MikeB · Post by **MikeB** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:05 pm

With feeding just one dog now a days price probably shouldn't matter but Canidae is up to $35 for 40#. Here in California the GAS prices have gone up so much and I commute min. 80 miles a day I have had to cut some where and decided to try SportMix Lamb/rice. I fed it years ago when it was under $20/40# and because it has Lamb meal and Chicken Meal with only Rice and NO wheat or corn and 448 kCal per cup it works for my new dog. Fed 1 40# bag now and she did great compared to CANIDAE. I can't tell any difference so far. $23.50/40# = $0.63 per lb. is way better for my budget.

http://www.sportmix.com/dog/premiumLambMealRice.tpl

Equismith · Post by **Equismith** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 7:08 pm

I found this link...

http://www.topgoldenretrieversites.net/ ... ategory=Co

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:32 pm

You can't tell how good a feed is by looking at the bag, but it's a good start. Good list of ingredients, but I wouldn't pay .80 a lb.. As I've said before, WalMart is a horrible place to buy dog food.

Equismith · Post by **Equismith** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:51 pm

big steve46 wrote:You can't tell how good a feed is by looking at the bag, but it's a good start. Good list of ingredients, but I wouldn't pay .80 a lb.. As I've said before, WalMart is a horrible place to buy dog food.

Around here Wal-Mart's prices can't be beat. Better than Food Lion, all the vet clinics, Lowe's Foods, Tractor Supply (the highest place), Pet Smart, and Southern States. Wal-Mart has cheaper food, but why buy food that's mainly corn? This food seems to be absorbed better than the previous I was feeding. Less waste by far. I thinkit's a good value compared to other so called "premium" foods.

wems2371 · Post by **wems2371** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:41 am

My mom was feeding Exceed and went to Maxximum and is very happy--not a sporting dog though......just a collie

. Denise

h20fwlkillr · Post by **h20fwlkillr** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 8:28 am

I've been trying out the Red Flannel Prime. Dogs are on their 4th bag and so far so good. Their coats look great, good stools and low feed amounts to maintain weight. I am very pleased so far. Price is very good too. Every 7th bag is free, so cost is about 38 cents a pound.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:09 pm

Equismith, My gosh, what part of the world do you live in?! For WalMart to be the cheapest place to buy food is hard to believe. You should be able to buy P. ProPlan or Diamond Performance for what you are paying for Maxximum, and I would think they are comparable of quality. I don't think WalMarts around here carry Maxximum, but I'll have to check. We have an old-fashioned locally owned feedstore that has the best prices here.

Equismith · Post by **Equismith** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 3:44 pm

big steve46 wrote:Equismith, My gosh, what part of the world do you live in?! For WalMart to be the cheapest place to buy food is hard to believe. You should be able to buy P. ProPlan or Diamond Performance for what you are paying for Maxximum, and I would think they are comparable of quality. I don't think WalMarts around here carry Maxximum, but I'll have to check. We have an old-fashioned locally owned feedstore that has the best prices here.

Believe me, I've checked. I'm the guy who looks at the price labels to see the price per unit. I'm a penny pincher easily, but cheap ain't always the best way to go. Wal-Mart doesn't offer the 40lb bag, or else I'd be buying it that way.

The Maxximum has allowed me to cut back on the amount fed. That alone is savings over the cheaper stuff.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:53 pm

My WM has Maxx. It looks real good. It costs 15.27 plus tax for 20 lb., which means a total of about .80 a lb.! I'll stay with my Diamond Premium for a total of .42 a lb.. You are making progress though if you are feeding less and getting good results.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:01 pm

I'm sure if you could get your WM to stock the Maxx in 40 lb. bags, it would bring the price down per lb.. That's one reason WM is so high. They package a lot of their feed in small gaudy bags for impulse buyers to grab and pay about a dollar a lb.!

Post by **ezzy333** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:40 pm

The feed in Walmart is packaged the same as every other store. Its the manufacture that buys the bags. If you look they have as many 40 and 50 lb bags as most places, at least here. Maxi is in 40 lbs I believe and some of the smaller bags as well.

Ezzy

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:26 am

About 80% of the bags in my small Super WalMart are 20 lbs. or less. For the ones that don't have a good feed store with feeds for less, I think the Purina One is the best one for the money. Maxi may be a sl. better feed, but it cost considerably more.

Equismith · Post by **Equismith** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:19 pm

I'll ask the local WM if they will stock the 40lb bags. As for a 20lb bag, I have three dogs, not high on the physically active meter, and that 20lbs will last about a week and a half. Roughly $10 per week I guess. They ain't skinny and their coats are nicely shiny.