Need help in saving a Life!!! Any Info would be great!

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:53 pm

Hi all, Niki welped her pups last night 10 in all and 9 are still here. One the biggest got laid on....
Problem I have a small male that is not active enough for feeding and gets pushed out.... I have started him on a bottle and back with mom. I have stimulated his rear to go to his duty. Momma is cleaning him well to.
He is still weak. Any of you nursed a pup this way and also can you all add to this.????
I know I should let natural selection take its course and it is not the money thing either. I just have a bigger heart than I lead on at times!

He is the best looking pup in the bunch! He has a full liver blanket down his back ending half way up his tail. His legs are white like he stepped in some milk!

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:48 pm

I've supplemented pups that were small or weak a few times. Usually you should be able to quit in a few days if everything goes ok.

Ezzy

llewgor · Post by **llewgor** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:54 pm

tak is he getting any milk out of mom? we once had a pup who couldn't suck the milk out and we tried to hand feed him, but it didn't work. pull her off to the side and see if he is nursing

Country-Side Breeders · Post by **Country-Side Breeders** » Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:33 pm

If you can express ANY milk out of mom at all, I'd do that (even if you have to get it in him with an eye dropper). The first 48 hrs. are crucial and Mom has the colostrum that he needs. You'll need to be feeding him every few hours too. I've done a few pups this way, too because of the soft heart. If you have a scale, weigh him 3-4 times a day to make sure he's not losing weight. He'll lose some (an ounce or 2) within the first 24, but after that, he should start gaining. Have the vet give him a good run down when you take him in for tails/dews too...that's not saying that you wouldn't have or didn't know that already, just a suggestion. When a person is going through this, they aren't always thinking of the obvious (at least I don't always and the obvious is always helpful). Make sure that he didn't have any lung or other organ damage done to him. Good luck!!

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:40 am

Billy, Niki is doing a good job keeping the other 8 feed. "Tuff" is still hanging in there. I am not sure if he is gaining much but I think I am getting somewhere with him. I have helped him get to momma and also have myself a little bottle. I don't have the name of the stuff but I bought it at the vet today.
I am also warming a few towels in the dryer and keeping him rubbed down.
I think there is something to say about "mothers intowishion"sp? Niki has not gave up on it yet. she will when I take him back grab him from my hand and carry him into the box.

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:45 am

Country-Side Breeders wrote:If you can express ANY milk out of mom at all, I'd do that (even if you have to get it in him with an eye dropper). The first 48 hrs. are crucial and Mom has the colostrum that he needs. You'll need to be feeding him every few hours too. I've done a few pups this way, too because of the soft heart. If you have a scale, weigh him 3-4 times a day to make sure he's not losing weight. He'll lose some (an ounce or 2) within the first 24, but after that, he should start gaining. Have the vet give him a good run down when you take him in for tails/dews too...that's not saying that you wouldn't have or didn't know that already, just a suggestion. When a person is going through this, they aren't always thinking of the obvious (at least I don't always and the obvious is always helpful). Make sure that he didn't have any lung or other organ damage done to him. Good luck!!

Ya I am worried he will make it and have long term effects. I have made the decision if he does live he does not leave. Even if I wanted I have 4 boys that I think with the right baseball bat could change my mind!
One the other hand if he does make it I may have one heck of a dog!

All, thanks for the input if there is any other tips I am open.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:42 am

Tom ...you know anyone with some goats if so get some goats milk if not then esbilac pupy formula....If you get this pup nursing they are pretty resilient ...I just had 2 litters and one mom was nervous about me handling the pups which i do from the start..I stimulate the feet and ears and back i do lots of handling well the mother didn't like it and I ended up sharing duties and PIcabo raised 15 pups with us alterneting between the 2 litters i went to safeway and got the AVENT nursing bottles with a week pup i would probably start with a 4 on the nipples then work down as he gets stronger as a 4 will drown them if they are strong nursers..

Biggext thing is let him be with the siblings but do handle them alot there is a book called The art of raising a puppy if you follow the beginning parts from day one you will notice extreme difference in the pups....so will the people who buy your pups from you...I have had some breeders comment on the difference of my pups and are now doing the same thing with their litters

this stimulation will increase the endorphines in the body not only aiding in building the bodies immune system but it also gets them in tune with themselves as to touch and being handled and smelling different things

Good Luck and keep us posted...I do know a guy in AZ that just had a litter but i think this is further then you want to go

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 1:47 pm

K-9 I do have the puppy formuila and I have been helping Tuff out with him getting to momma. Momma is ok with me handling but she still grits her teeth as I am working her tet over and putting it in his mouth. Another male is know needing my assistance. The other pups are just so big and strong that these two get pushed off and know that they are a little weaker they don't get much time feeding. I will keep trying until momma rejects them.......

One thing I have done is Big time increased mommas food and fat intake. Just today she ate 2 large t-bones, RAW! The after noon I will get her a lbs or two of hamburger. She looks well for having 10 pups and I want to keep her that way.
What to you think about adding a Pro-Plan energy bar to her diet??? Oh ya she gets two eggs a day.....

Post by **kninebirddog** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:19 pm

FLuids..fluids fluids calcium ..also supplement i would even supplement the healthier pups letting the weaker ones nurse more unless there is something wrong with them...I had a very little runt who never missed a meal she would crawl on top of the rest and the slide down laying right against the tummy latched on to a teat

...with the what your saying I would be concerned with her as if the pups are not getting enough and they are getting weaker protein isn't the answer.... there is something else

Country-Side Breeders · Post by **Country-Side Breeders** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:10 pm

Have you been weighing them at all? Like Knine suggested, you might want to get something for Mom to produce more milk and let the smaller ones get from her while you supplement the stronger ones. Anything natural is going to be better for the little ones. The bigger ones are better able to adjust to the supplement. I've never used it, but I've heard that goat's milk works great. You might want to look into that as well.

Post by **ezzy333** » Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:26 pm

When I had the kennel and was raising several litters a year I always kept a goat and fed the puppies the milk. I have raised puppies to wild rabbits on it and it worked great. In your case I would give the bitch some too. She should be capable of easily raising 10 puppies without a lot of extra care. Just make sure she has all the feed she wants. Sounds like maybe she needs a shot though to get her to let her milk down. I also agree she doesn't need extra protien, mainly more carbohydrated.

Ezzy

Birdhunter1 · Post by **Birdhunter1** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:39 am

The first litter of Britt's my dad and I had we had 13 born and 11 survived. We were feeding all of them by bottle (the first few weeks it was by eye dropper) once a day and the smallest 4 we were feeding twice a day. All 11 survived, one of which we still have (3 years old almost). Yes you can do it and yes it does work great. Tryign to feed that many pups is hard on teh mother, that is why we weref eeding all of them at least once a day. The smallest ones we were doing twice a day in case they were getting pushed out.

We have a litter due at the end of May, I hope there is not that many again, but then again I do hope we have that many.

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:40 pm

Both did not make it past the night..... The 7 remaining pups are healthy and very active.....

Country-Side Breeders · Post by **Country-Side Breeders** » Sun Apr 10, 2005 6:11 pm

Sorry to hear that.

Sometimes, no matter how hard we try to defy her, Mother Nature still wins...and it's most likely for the best too!

portsider44 · Post by **portsider44** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:45 am

TAK wrote:Both did not make it past the night..... The 7 remaining pups are healthy and very active.....

Thats sucks but like Patty said it's probably for the best & it will help the other 7 out & make things easier on mom.

Good luck & let us know how things are going with the 7.

Post by **kninebirddog** » Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:22 pm

Very sorry to hear that Tom....

There had to be something else wrong.....There is only so much one can do...and then the rest is in Gods hands....Glad to hear the others are doing well and may they continue to grow up and turn into great dogs

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 2:10 am

I know for sure what was wrong with the first pup that died. He was laid on. the second was going well and I think he too may have been laid on and I found him to late. The third "Tuff" he was only half or 3/4 the size at birth as the others. ?????

I have posted some pictures of the pups in the puppy section. The 7 are doing fantastic. Each time I check them I think they have grown a lbs. Heck another week and I can start the Force breaking!
Momma has done everything possible to tear the flooring out of the whelp box this time. This AM I found that she had caught a cat passing the yard and ...well she brought it back to the pups! Good kitty! Niki is a packer. I have found boots, toy guns, coats, hats, bones, you name it!

snips · Post by **snips** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:12 am

I have had some pups that have come along with some help and made it ok. I have also had some that I helped and no matter what you do they still die within a couple of weeks. Theres always a reason. Thats why I refrain from advice here. If a bitch lays on a pup it`s usually within the first couple of days when they are exsuasted. I usually check on them every couple of hours the first couple of nites. After that the pups usually are strong enough to squirm out or a bitch gets nervous when they squeel. Sounds like they are well on their way!!

sudiegirl · Post by **sudiegirl** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 9:25 am

congrats to your niki. sorry to hear about the ones that didn't make it, but glad to hear the others are doing well.

goddog · Post by **goddog** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:08 pm

Tom,
were they pressed between the wall and the mama dog? If so,
consider put a 2x4 strip, 3" off the bottom on your welping pen/ box, that will form a "refuge" space incase the female rest on the pup, I know this is too late but for the future.

SC

Country-Side Breeders · Post by **Country-Side Breeders** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 3:34 pm

3" PVC works great, too! Been through that experience as well. I just brought the pups back from having their tails and dews done and Mama was so upset that she laid on them to protect them from being taken out again (is what I'm thinking the reasoning for her to lay on them was) and in the process, squished one.

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:03 pm

goddog wrote:Tom,
were they pressed between the wall and the mama dog? If so,
consider put a 2x4 strip, 3" off the bottom on your welping pen/ box, that will form a "refuge" space incase the female rest on the pup, I know this is too late but for the future.

SC

Ya your right! I should have done this! I built this two years ago in a mad rush. I had alot go on at work and had to through it together fast. Them pups did great and so I thought heck who needs it! 2 of them did!
I can bet you a dime to a dollar that It will be modified by the end of this month!
Steve I see you are coming to Utah!!!! Great to here! Talked with Jay today and Sat, Sunday are full and big bye list, Monday is only lacking a dog or two!
Weather???? We had a trial last year a week before this one and it was PERRRRFECT! New green Grasses cool breeze..... upper 60's if I remember right! Good lock and Travel Safe!

superweimer · Post by **superweimer** » Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:56 am

I know several people have mentioned this, but there has to be other issues with these pups.

I had a male pup in a litter one time who just never gained wieght. He lived three weeks had his eyes open and was very active, but was the size of a week old puppy. Was the strangest thing I had every seen as his litter mates were 3 to 4 times his size. He passed away about the time I started introducing puppy food to the litter, I'm thinking he just has something wrong inside that wouldn't let him process food correctly. This could have been the issue with your pups.

I also have a current litter of Weimer pups, my female squished one the first day. She had 9 total, 8 are now at 6 weeks of age. When I have larger litters there seems to always be one or two that get squished, I have to watch very closely the first week. Not alot you can do, unless you can be there to help mamma 24 - 7.

Regards,

Superweimer :shock:

portsider44 · Post by **portsider44** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:26 am

Hey Tak,

How about a pup update & so new photos. Just love those puppy pics.

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:23 pm

The 7 remaining pups are GREAT! I think that I may have mixed a Mastiff or something like that in this. They are big ol Porkers! I will get some pictures up soon. THe weather one day is good and then bad, the good day I work and the bad I work!!

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Mon May 02, 2005 7:28 pm

This is the girls of the litter boys are also in the Album section!

Ryan · Post by **Ryan** » Mon May 02, 2005 10:32 pm

So adorable makes me widh we still had our pups. Cant wait to buy one for myslef.

The shelf thing realy works loved it.

portsider44 · Post by **portsider44** » Wed May 11, 2005 1:17 pm

Tak,

Love the updated pics in the album, have you got a favorite picked out of the bunch?

TAK · Post by **TAK** » Wed May 11, 2005 5:36 pm

All are sold! Great pups and very active. I like males and the 3 are some nice ones!

MNGSP · Post by **MNGSP** » Wed May 11, 2005 7:55 pm

What good looking Pups!!!

That one second from the right is a BIG one...It's got some really big paws.

Did ya' take em for a Bounce after the pic???

Jon