NEED HELP! - anybody used vitality science products ?

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:23 pm

http://www.vitalityscience.com/Default.asp?Redirected=Y

My 2.9 yr. old GSP was in perfect health by looking at him 4.5 mo. ago. He just got his UT-1 in ga. and we were ready for hunting season.

After opening a NEW bag of Canidae ( same food he has been on for about 8 mo. and wasn't on the recall list) he starts with very bad gas, itching, breaks out in bumps with scabs all over his body, bald spot on hip, vomits and diarrhea within 2-3 days. Switch to another NEW bag of same food day 4 ( diff. batch date) and everything goes away over 1-2 wks. except the diarrhea. I treated with ivermectin, safe-guard, sulfa drugs, metronidazole, tylosin, albon, etc. vet has done all the basic test and x-ray (confirms no blockage etc. ) and they don't know what's causing the diarrhea. We have treated with high doses twice and test are all clean. Cooked boiled chicken and rice for a month and nothing changed. Switched to Innova feed with Fortiflora for a month and still the same, just added dyne supplement this past week. Dog has lost 15 lbs. and is in bad shape, so we started prednisone 3 days ago and for the first time in 3.5 mo. it stopped his diarrhea but I don't want him on steriods more than 1-2 wks. heard vitality products are all natural and will fix his problem without harsh drugs that can cause more problems while fixing one.

Any info on this product would be great...

PS: I could write a book on what has been done, ask snips

Thanks
Jon

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:57 pm

Before I got into a great deal of expense, I would try other products. There's nothing wrong with the good commercial brands, unless you are trying to sell something. There are dogs that have special needs. Have you made sure you haven't been overfeeding? Have you used supplements such as probiotics and digestive enzymes? Most Vets don't prescribe them due to their nutritional ignorance. There's lots of ways you can go without spending 80cents a pound or more for food.

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:28 pm

big steve46 wrote: Have you made sure you haven't been overfeeding? Have you used supplements such as probiotics and digestive enzymes? .

Dog has been free feeding since he was a pup. very seldom eats more than 3 cups a day unless working hard then 4 cups. He has never been one to eat a lot at one time. Prob. because he knows he doesn't have too.

vet suggested Fortiflora , has been on that for a month. http://www.purinaveterinarydiets.com/Ca ... x?prod=244

Just started using dyne supplement a week ago because he has lost so much weight. http://www.gundogsupply.com/dynhigcalliq.html

ya, I know but after spending about $8k on dog stuff for 1 dog in 3 yrs., not really worried with the price of dog feed. Thanks though.

Just looking for a cure.

big steve46 · Post by **big steve46** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:39 pm

With the money you have spent, you should have had the problem solved. The reality is you can spend a lot of time looking for bugs and allergies, and there may be a simple explanation otherwise. Good luck.

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:55 pm

big steve46 wrote:With the money you have spent, you should have had the problem solved. The reality is you can spend a lot of time looking for bugs and allergies, and there may be a simple explanation otherwise. Good luck.

I'm thinking / hoping all the cleaning & treatments removed what may have triggered all this and now his stomach is just having a hard time recovering. Which is the reason behind looking into vitality science.

Thanks

dog dr · Post by **dog dr** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:17 pm

the fact that he responded to the pred tells me that there is most likely an inflamation issue with the gut, which is afecting absorption. this could be due to an allergy or some sort of immune mediated issue. remember this is just my best guess. has ytour vet talked about IBD??

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:19 pm

dog dr wrote:the fact that he responded to the pred tells me that there is most likely an inflamation issue with the gut, which is afecting absorption. this could be due to an allergy or some sort of immune mediated issue. remember this is just my best guess. has ytour vet talked about IBD??

dog dr. yes, your right on... since we have thrown so many things at the dog to eliminate common problems, vet hopes it's just a case of IBD or collitis we can fix. He feels nothing could have survived after all the treatment and we need to fix his gut now. Pred was the way of getting a fast answer and stopping the diarrhea, but I need to get something else started in him like the Vitality Science which will create a healthy gut vs just stopping it with pred.

Does that make more sense in understanding where we think we are, at this point ? It is possible his immune system starting attacking itself and needed to be reset. If he still has one after all this treatment.

PS: I had the same thing happen to me 11 yrs. ago after getting over 100 misquito bites in a week. My immune system went crazy. Was given steriods for a week and have been fine since, provided I am not bitten by misquitos in north east florida. Others don't bother me, hard to believe but I have tested this many times.

If you research VS, it was designed for this. Looking for a little feed back about it or something like it.

Thanks

WildRose · Post by **WildRose** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:58 pm

Probios paste and something like Dannon's all natural yogurt added to the diet for a week or so would go a long way towards getting the gut back in order IF the original problem is solved. Also both are very economical compared to the specialty additives.

One other thing you might consider throwing on the feed is a product called "The missing link". It doesn't offer the probiotics but it's a very good overall suppliment with some real benefits. CR

Jon · Post by **Jon** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:49 am

wildrose, I tried yogurt and fortiflora for weeks and nothing. Maybe, he was on anitbiotics at the time and his body was flushing everything. I don't know. The only time I expected his diarrhea to get worse was during deworming. I was eliminating everything with treatments to be sure we didn't have other problems when I start fixing his gut. Now that nothing could have survived it's time to fix his gut. I could try yogurt and fortiflora again now that pred. is the only thing he is on but with the cost of yogurt and fortiflora per day I will end up spending just as much in a month. Also some people believe a dogs gut kills anything yogurt could offer which is why they use things like fortiflora but at this point I just want it to be over and VS seems to be a sure way to make that happen quickly.

From VS website:
"Digestion is a complex process involving acids, enzymes,
and microrganisms. The digestive process includes fermentation.
Food undergoing digestion is a living biomass aided by huge
quantities of one celled animals. Up to half of every evacuation
is composed of microroganisms. The other half is unusable
food material. More than five hundred species of bacteria
inhabit animal intestinal tracts. When that population becomes
unbalanced due to acidic food, antibiotics, or pathogens, then
the body reacts by expelling them as quickly as possible. This
process is either vomiting or diarrhea. Pet Flora™ reestablishes
intestinal balance.

Pet Flora™has been scientifically proven to resolve gastrointestinal
issues in both humans and pets. (See Dr.
Bittner’s study which follows this section.)
Pet Flora™ "The Ultimate Probiotic" is the culmination of
five years of research. During the research, it was discovered
that a specific combination of SBOs were far more effective in
the treatment of diarrhea and vomiting than any other probiotics.
Pet Flora's™patented formula of 30 probiotic and prebiotic
SBOs is the result of this discovery. End VS

I'm not affiliated with them in any way. Just looking for feed back.

I had a long post with more info. prior to this but the FDA called and had me on the phone for 30 min. about canidae and the site timed out. I won't repeat what they said about wal-mart /sam's dog food. stay on topic...

llewgor · Post by **llewgor** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:27 pm

I once read an article about dogs stooling out in the field. They said that a dog could get collitis because it always stools out in the field. They do this because they're trying to get rid of the crap slapping them in the intestines as they are running. The article said that you should allow them time to digest the food before they're exercise.... So they suggested feeding once a day and after the work out.... I can't remember which mag I read this in but Geoge Hickox wrote the article (maybe PDJ).... Since then I've feed my dogs after works out. With my llew she doesn't have any problems, but with my Gordon I've notice that if I feed him in the morning and then decide to take him out in the afternoon and exercise him for any length of time he'll start stooling out more than just entering the field. When this happens it very diarrhea like, so I stop him there and walk him in.

..... · Post by **.....** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 4:46 am

..........

Post by **Kiki's Mom** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:58 am

Jon,

I have had 2 dogs with the very specific problem you describe. Both had IBD. What worked for me was to yank them off of all commercial dog food for a 6 month period each. One dog I cooked for. He got a diet made of oatmeal, egg, potato with fish, chicken and beef as protein sources (I alternated them) with additional supplementation with Missing link, and/or kelp and calcium pwder for trace mineral absorption etc. This dog BTW was a Pembroke Welsh Corgi. He was on a loading dose of Pred to begin with and by the middle of the second month on home cooked meals he was weaned off for good. Brer lived to age 12 but I battled that IBD on and off for the rest of his days. He was DXd at age 3 1/2.

The other dog was my little handicapped Brittany. Born with physical deformaties ( cleft palete and harelip). She began showing signs of IBD at age 14 months. Interestingly she had been weaned and raised on Canidae too. My vet concluded that the multiple protein sources in the Candidae may have been what she was having trouble with. I switched her over to a completely raw diet, using mainly lamb as her protein source to start & later adding in chicken with all of the veggies etc...to keep her diet balanced. She cleared up in about 9 weeks. I did not use pred at all with her. She was fed a totally raw diet for 2 years straight with excellent results health wise. She transistioned back to commercial feed when I became seriously involved with the bird dog game and had too many dogs to be cost effectively feeding the raw diet. She never had a re-occurrance of the IBD UNLESS she managed to get a kibble that had multiple protein sources.

In both cases it was a matter of getting the gut healed from the inflammation before any change was seen.

Just curious....have you ever tried using canned pumpkin to up the fiber content in your dog's feed? Sometimes that helps a great deal.

Post by **ezzy333** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:11 am

Kris,

Do you believe the material you are posting that everything is a result of vacinations?

If you do tell us what is the remedy? Unless you can give us a guideline on how to avoid the vacinations and still have a healthy dog the material you are posting is pretty much worthless in the real world and qualifies for something the acedemics can discuss in their official papers.

Would it be too much to ask if you would just make regular posts in your own words if you feel we all need to know something and refer us to the location where we can find the backup material? It would sure help the readers of these threads.

Without alternatives, your info is useless.

Ezzy

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:52 am

Jon,

You are doing the right thing, working with your vet. Don't make any sudden changes without consulting your vet. What food are you feeding now? Did your vet put him on ID or EN ever? How much time has elapsed since this started?

mountaindogs · Post by **mountaindogs** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:54 am

Also is the dog still on famotidine or flagyl (metronidazole) ?